Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[libtard]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

The discussion in this thread has degenerated into something along the lines of "how concrete jersey barriers must look for the PMH1 project"...

BC has the ugliest jersey barriers in North America. No other province uses those stupid barriers with 2 holes in them.

We also don't use cast in place barriers enough

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Maybe they found a bunch of treasure and they are bringing it out slowly.

Or, proof of aliens! That would be sweet.

Or, they ran into a secret oil pipeline that is being built while the public is being fooled over Enbridge and TransMountain projects.

Finally ... an explanation that makes real sense.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by libtard

BC has the ugliest jersey barriers in North America. No other province uses those stupid barriers with 2 holes in them.

We also don't use cast in place barriers enough

That is so that when idiots fly up or down the mountain highways, crashing and causing a major accident, they can just remove them to allow traffic to be detoured. One of the few smart things BC does.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Maybe they found a bunch of treasure and they are bringing it out slowly.

Or, proof of aliens! That would be sweet.

Or, they ran into a secret oil pipeline that is being built while the public is being fooled over Enbridge and TransMountain projects.

They're currently constructing the second entrance shaft to EvilCorp's Secret Genetic Research Lab. It's located some 2500 feet beneath Burnaby Mountain and you've never heard of it because they have a habit of killing people who wo-

[officedweller]

Wrong-railed train arriving at Burquitlam Station...

https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Wrong-railed train arriving at Burquitlam Station...

https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline

Finally! Some sanity in this thread!

Plus some of those facebook comments and questions....

Jeremy Leung - "Looking forward for the first two stations (Lougheed and Burquitlam) to be opened for public service
Fiona Hall - "Yeah me to but when will that be"

Peter Cave - "Is there a chance burquitlam station might open ahead of the rest of the line?"


So yeah...Translink should open Burquitlam sooner rather than later. After all, we can clearly see the train is now traverssing the completed tracks under its own power already.

A soft launch would do wonders to a community denied rapid transit access for decades. Plus the delay of opening is really just for Translink's convenience since it would be less work for them. But since we already overpay them for the existing substandard work they already do wit the rest of the system, then they should simply do more work so we get our money's worth.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Finally! Some sanity in this thread!

So yeah...Translink should open Burquitlam sooner rather than later. After all, we can clearly see the train is now traverssing the completed tracks under its own power already.

A soft launch would do wonders to a community denied rapid transit access for decades. Plus the delay of opening is really just for Translink's convenience since it would be less work for them. But since we already overpay them for the existing substandard work they already do wit the rest of the system, then they should simply do more work so we get our money's worth.

Uh oh, here we go again

They're still not going to open just one station early, no matter how much you and a couple other people want it to happen. I wouldn't call it "traversing the completed tracks under it's own power" when it's being manually driven. Having a driver run a shuttle train approx 1.8 km and back again so doesn't seem worth it. Maybe you can convince TransLink to start bus service changes for that station next spring and get them to open it then.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

So yeah...Translink should open Burquitlam sooner rather than later. After all, we can clearly see the train is now traverssing the completed tracks under its own power already.

And risk the entire general public going "EVERGREEN LINE IS DELAYED! THEY ONLY OPENED ONE STATION! TRANSLINK IS INCOMPETENT!" - nah.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Peter Cave - "Is there a chance burquitlam station might open ahead of the rest of the line?"


So yeah...Translink should open Burquitlam sooner rather than later. After all, we can clearly see the train is now traverssing the completed tracks under its own power already.

I don't see it happening. They can add a station to the computer system, but that costs time and money to do, and they they'd have to pay that expense again when the entire line is ready. After all the other stupid "translink wastes money" BS that Jordan Bateman fed the media, I doubt Translink wants to give that troll any more ammo.

Likewise a "X millions spent on the evergreen line, only one station opened, Translink is awful" kind of BS that the media would also be fed.

There are also safety issues with running the train on an energized line where it's only partly completed, like opening it now might increase delays on testing the the tracks through the tunnel.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Kisai

I don't see it happening. They can add a station to the computer system, but that costs time and money to do, and they they'd have to pay that expense again when the entire line is ready. After all the other stupid "translink wastes money" BS that Jordan Bateman fed the media, I doubt Translink wants to give that troll any more ammo.

Likewise a "X millions spent on the evergreen line, only one station opened, Translink is awful" kind of BS that the media would also be fed.

There are also safety issues with running the train on an energized line where it's only partly completed, like opening it now might increase delays on testing the the tracks through the tunnel.

Oh please. Surely with today's ultra modern computers within Skytrain, a little programming here and there should be simple (unless we're still in archaic mode). It is not without precedence that the Skytrain Line was partially opened, the Millenium Line to Braid for instance. While the reasons were political, it goes to show that when it comes to barriers, none of it are technical.

While people look at costs, what about the extra revenue from the increased ridership? Surely revenue from additional riders (as oppose to funneled bus riders like those in Millenium and Canada Line) will make a positive impact. People don't mind it if Translink spends additional money on things that improve service, what they don't want is when they waste the money on non-value items like executive and general staff wage increases on their already high wages, or artsy fartsy things.

Besides, my ongoing follow up is far better than those stupid posts about pretty road barriers, extra-terrestial aliens, buried treasure and super villain underground lairs..

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Oh please. Surely with today's ultra modern computers within Skytrain, a little programming here and there should be simple (unless we're still in archaic mode). It is not without precedence that the Skytrain Line was partially opened, the Millenium Line to Braid for instance. While the reasons were political, it goes to show that when it comes to barriers, none of it are technical.

I agree about the politics. Firstly, if it looks like the tunnel will impose a significant delay then there will be political pressure to show some progress, and an "opening ceremony" for the Burquitlam station would be good optics. Secondly, in politics the more "opening ceremonies" you can take credit for the better.

I'd be surprised if there were a significant cost for reconfiguring the system once for Burquitlam and again for the other stations. I'd imagine that the bulk of the work and cost would be setting up the software to perform the dual synchronization of trains intermixing through the different lines - and that only has to be done once since running trains beyond Burquitlam won't change that aspect of the system.

Testing trains through the tunnel while Burquitlam is open certainly isn't going to be any more difficult than testing the synchronization of trains at Lougheed while the Millenium line is open.

[nname]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Oh please. Surely with today's ultra modern computers within Skytrain, a little programming here and there should be simple (unless we're still in archaic mode).

Little programming, you say? Maybe you should ask Thales (the supplier of signaling system for SkyTrain) why it took them more than 2 years and still couldn't get the signaling system working for the little 3-stations extension of Edmonton's LRT.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by nname

Little programming, you say? Maybe you should ask Thales (the supplier of signaling system for SkyTrain) why it took them more than 2 years and still couldn't get the signaling system working for the little 3-stations extension of Edmonton's LRT.

If they 🞵🞵🞵🞵 that badly, why are we still using them?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

If they 🞵🞵🞵🞵 that badly, why are we still using them?

Originally Posted by nname

Little programming, you say? Maybe you should ask Thales (the supplier of signaling system for SkyTrain) why it took them more than 2 years and still couldn't get the signaling system working for the little 3-stations extension of Edmonton's LRT.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/08/19/th...ented-concerning-the-edmonton-metro-line



Maybe because it's not Thales that's the problem, rather it's the fact (Edmonton's) a at-grade LRT with an existing signalling system? Any software developer will tell you it's a huge (expensive) mess to glue new software to old backends.

Hence my point earlier about "just adding one" station to the Millennium line. Are you forgetting where the existing line's terminus is? There is additional hardware requirements for operating that extra station or the entire extension, no matter which way it's set up. It's not like they can go "Open Burquitlam and all other stations are closed"

For all we know, each "Change" made to the software costs millions of dollars.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Kisai

It's not like they can go "Open Burquitlam and all other stations are closed"

If they were really unable to do that then the entire Expo and Millenium lines would have been shut down far more frequently and extensively than they have been when switches stopped working or there were communications or other issues at a particular station or track area. All they have to do is declare a portion of the track "out of service" and "short turn" the trains at Burquitlam.

[TransitFreak]

A couple of things to consider that they could do if they need to put a positive spin on it, again based on the fact that they did this with Braid:

1. If testing, commissioning on that stretch has been deemed sufficient
2. Testing of the new trains is complete and have extra train sets now
3. If the optics of providing additional frequency and perceived capacity on the millenium line by going to 2 car sets every 3 mins is deemed a benefit
4. Station upgrades at commercial Broadway complete
5. If all those items are achievable before the fall 2016 service reset, it could be an ace in the hole for Translnk to provide some additional benefit...there could also be an outcry if people realize a certain section is operational and Translnk is wasting a productive asset. In my opinion all of the above have to be in place before Translnk can entertain that.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If they were really unable to do that then the entire Expo and Millenium lines would have been shut down far more frequently and extensively than they have been when switches stopped working or there were communications or other issues at a particular station or track area. All they have to do is declare a portion of the track "out of service" and "short turn" the trains at Burquitlam.

The difference between an operational line and a non-operational line, is that the non-operational line isn't providing feedback on it's state. You're not going to put in a bunch of patches to "ignore this track segment state, ignore this station state, ignore manually driven vehicles between X and Y switches" only to have to remove them later at an additional cost. Every rail system is build-to-order, not off-the-shelf parts and software, so someone needs to be paid to change the software, someone needs to be paid to QA the software.

If Thales already installed the computer systems and they're ready to go, they can probably flag everything beyond Burquitlam as not-in-service, and the existing trains won't try to fly past it under computer control. But if they can't put the Evergreen line VCC into service without the line being complete, then Burquitlam can only be reached under manual control.

Like my argument is less about trying to shoot down Queetz's obsession with seeing Burqitlam opening early, and more about Translink wanting to control the message when people start asking why Burquitlam remains closed even though they see trains going to it. Ever wonder why it takes months to test trains and not days?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Kisai

The difference between an operational line and a non-operational line, is that the non-operational line isn't providing feedback on it's state. You're not going to put in a bunch of patches to "ignore this track segment state, ignore this station state, ignore manually driven vehicles between X and Y switches" only to have to remove them later at an additional cost. Every rail system is build-to-order, not off-the-shelf parts and software, so someone needs to be paid to change the software, someone needs to be paid to QA the software.

My point is that the software can be (and probably is already) configured to include all of the track and stations. BUT - problems can happen at any point in the line - for example you can loose communications with all of the vehicles and wayside equipment in certain parts of the track due to things like router failures (or bird nest fires!) These problems have already happened on the existing lines. The system is designed to be fault tolerant and can be configured on the fly to allow trains to run in the remaining parts of the track that are still functional. The limitations are in the physical network - for example where switches are that allow trains to switch tracks - and not in the software. Using these same dynamic configuration capabilities you could run trains as far as Burquitlam without needing to have the rest of the line in service.

When the remaining portion of the line becomes serviceable and live testing needs to be done, it can be done at night the same way testing is done right now for things like new software versions.

[Olden Retreiver]

I'm willing to go full-in and predict Burquitlam Station WILL open before Labour Day 2016, after the new bus loops and new connecting routes to SFU are in place there. This will also allow the re-build of Lougheed bus loop to it's final configuration, and commercial redevelopments can begin close to their original intended timelines.

Concurrent with this is a slightly less certain prediction that the full line will NOT be in operation before Christmas 2016. Remember, the original delay from Summer to Fall 2016 came out last February, after only the second sinkhole. A lot more has gone wrong since then, including the ill-fated "Late July" announcement for resumption of tunnelling.

Assuming the TBM does get going in the near future, AND has minimal additional problems, by the time it emerges at the South portal it will be essentially one solid year behind schedule for the rough, first-phase of construction.

The next Provincial Election is in May, 2017. A discrete, quiet announcement of a partial opening many months before that would be largely a face-saving mechanism. If the whole Evergreen Line isn't a glowing success by early Spring 2017 (e.g. if somebody's house or car or baby falls into a sinkhole) the whole thing will be too toxic for Victoria politicians and it will be brushed aside as a TransLink and/or SNC Lavalin issue. They'll be able to say the official opening already happened.

[nname]

The passenger information system on Evergreen Line seems to be similar to the Canada Line ones (orange text) as oppose to the existing Millennium Line ones (red text).