Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[osmo]

CFL has issues long term. These down the road issues are its aging fan base which isn't getting younger. MLS is capturing the younger demographic in the bigger markets.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can believe most of that. Especially when it comes to TV. I just find all of the CFL Renaissance talk interesting. You'd think they'd be averaging at least 35 or 40 k a game now.

Though most NHL clubs in Canada are averaging 3 to 4 k more per game than in the 90s.

Renaissance has to do with revenue and tv audience and teams not being in constant threat of going under. The trend in outdoor sports is to build smaller or similar sized stadiums with more premium seating. You arent going to see massive jumps in attendance comapred to 20 years ago. Every cfl team except for winnipeg is playing in a stadium that is either smaller or same size as 20 years ago.

Also with regards to the nhl in canada, it helps that mtl toronto and vancouver moved to larger facilities in the late 90s which has boosted capacity. And until recently, the cdn dollar was competitive with the US.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

All of these fancy numbers and stats are worthless. The fact of the matter is that logan and a few of his buddies like soccer, so clearly the CFL is dying. What part of this do you people not understand?

I don't know if it's because Of night shift leaving me really tired or if this legitimately the funniest thing ive ever read but I cant stop laughing at this. The whole time I was trying to read the rest of your post I just kept laughing. Thanks for that

The insecurity of MLS fans is comming in loud and clear. I thought it was possibly just a TFC thing but It seems to be league wide phenomenon.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another thing I have realized is that the CFL appears successful because of radically revised expectations.

20k crowd: acceptable
25k: good
30k: very good
35k+: woo hoo!

Attendance today is not significantly higher than in the dog days of the 80s and 90s, and way below the 70s.

The RedBlacks are not really drawing way more fans than the Rough Riders or Renegades. This is true of most teams BTW. Attendance is holding steady or is down compared with 10 or 20 years ago.

The REDBLACKS are sold out every game. Clearly TD place was designed at 24,000 seats because they Could be profitable at that number. That's like saying the Winnipeg Jets aren't doing very well because they are only drawing 15,004. Both teams are living up to business expectations. You can't Judge the CFL fanbase in Ottawa until they significantly dip under the capacity of TD place

And attendance in Almost every summer league is down or stagnant. Soccer, baseball, Football. It's a digital world. It's cheaper and way more convenient to watch it at home

[elly63]

Originally Posted by logan5

but a few years down the road MLS is going to steamroll the CFL

We keep hearing this (40 years worth for me) and nobody seems to answer where all this growth will come from. MLS becoming a big player is predicated on a large US TV contract, how are they going to get that when the "dying" CFL is getting better ratings than they do in the US.

The CFL and MLS have the exact same problem, they are matched against juggernauts. In the CFL's case the NFL and in MLS's case the Big Four Leagues and every auld country league that part of their "ethic" audience attracts.

Is the growing Hispanic population in the US turning towards MLS? Doesn't seem like it when the CFL is outdrawing them on ESPN2. Will they transfer allegiance from Liga MX to MLS, doesn't seem likely so far.

An Impact fan over at Voyageurs went to his first Als game in years and said the atmosphere was way better at an Als game. He said "The Impact have a good following but their fan base is tiny compared to the Alouettes"

[elly63]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm not talking today's numbers obviously, but MLS is trending to overtake the CFL.

Proof?

[elly63]

Back to our regularly scheduled thread

CalgaryNEXT The new Calgary Arena and Stadium/Fieldhouse Project

Prime Time Sports - Thursday August 20 - 5pm
Calgary Sports & Entertainment Corporation CEO Ken King

[Riise]

Originally Posted by esquire

Haha, I've been to football games in different cities in North America and I think it's fair to say that they tend to attract a slightly rowdier crowd than other sports do.

Although I'm not a lover of the sport, this is why I love going to Stamps games. The atmosphere is so much better when the stadium isn't full of the prawn sandwich brigade that simply sit down and shut up aside from the occasional applause and odd 'Go Team Go'.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I don't know if it's because Of night shift leaving me really tired or if this legitimately the funniest thing ive ever read but I cant stop laughing at this. The whole time I was trying to read the rest of your post I just kept laughing. Thanks for that

It's just the cold, hard facts!

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agreed. Compared to the 1990's the CFL is doing spectacularly well. The league still need to get a 10th team (Halifax or QC) to bring parity to the league.

At a bare minimum, the CFL should strive for a 12 team circuit within the next 12-15 years.

3 more teams? I'm assuming you're thinking 1 more in the west and 2 in the east.

Where else would you put another western team? The only place I can think of is either victoria or kelowna, neither of which have anything close to a CFL stadium at this point.

And two eastern teams? One in the Martimes (let Halifax and Moncton fight it out?) and one more in Quebec City?

To me, that's really stretching it. Perhaps it's doable in your 12 - 15 year timeline, but in my view, you add one team in HFX, and leave it at that for the foreseeable future.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by osmo

MLS is capturing the younger demographic in the bigger markets.

Can you cite any empirical research in support of your assertion?

While we are waiting, here is some actual empirical research regarding age demographics. As the scientific research shows, MLS is DEAD LAST in the 18-34 age demographic. Indeed, MLS is equal only to the extreme sport of CURLING among the youth demographic, as the latest research from 2015 shows:


Angus Reid Institute (2014):


Source: http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CFL-Grey-Cup-2014.pdf

University of Lethbridge (2015):


Source: http://www.reginaldbibby.com/thingsnew.html

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Im hearing that the Grey Cup in Winnipeg this year is still not sold out and have cancelled plans to add additional temporary seating. Whats going on?? New stadium but will have the smallest Grey Cup crowd since the 70s?? "Best stadium in the country by far"

The Bomber organization blew it with the pricing of the Grey Cup. $399 for upper deck seats at the goal line and $299 for corner upper deck seats and endzone seats will discourage many from attending this year's game. Most expensive average Grey Cup price in history.

Factor in the ridiculous 3-year season ticket commitment to receive any discount on Grey Cup tickets and the fact that Winnipeg's location and climate probably limit the number of out-of-town Grey Cup guests to less than any city outside Regina and Hamilton and the final tally with 13 weeks to go is reportedly only 26,000 seats sold.

Capacity has been reduced from 41000 to 36,000 or so. There will still be temporary seats but only in one end of the stadium.

Had the Bombers added another price point or two in the stadium as they did in 2006, got rid of the ridiculous 3-year commitment and tweaked some of the current price points I'm convinced the game would be mostly sold out at this point. $399 for upper deck and $299 for end zone seats is simply a poor value proposition for most people. Thus, the poor sales for those particular seats.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by logan5

The CFL lost Montreal once already and now they have a Francophone MLS star that they can connect with. The Lions are now taking cues from the Whitecaps on stadium arrangement and the Whitecaps are close to matching the Lions in attendance with twice as many games. The CFL cannot survive without the big 3. You can trumpet todays ratings all you want, but a few years down the road MLS is going to steamroll the CFL. Maybe the CFL can't do anymore than what they are doing, and it's the cold reality of natural selection.

It speaks pretty sadly of the sports culture in certain parts of this country if a city of 4 million and a city of 2.5 million can't support both the CFL and the MLS during the summer and fall months. We are talking about two cities that only have to support one of the big-4 North American pro sports leagues. No NBA, no MLB, no NFL.

The Whitecaps typically average 125,000 per match on tv. Better than TFC, but about 1/5th of the average CFL game. Your hyperbole is duly noted though.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can believe most of that. Especially when it comes to TV. I just find all of the CFL Renaissance talk interesting. You'd think they'd be averaging at least 35 or 40 k a game now.

Though most NHL clubs in Canada are averaging 3 to 4 k more per game than in the 90s.

Gate revenues at the stadium are significantly higher today. Less freebies, and more club seats and suites. Those old stadiums in the 90s had none of those features.

[Prometheus]

Oh my goodness, would you look at this. Scientific research regarding the popularity of the CFL vs. MLS in Toronto, specifically:


University of Lethbridge (2015):


Source: http://www.reginaldbibby.com/thingsnew.html

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Sees that there has been 4 pages of posts the last 24 hours.

Gets excited about something big had happened.

Nope - the monthly CFL / MLS argument

[dreambrother808]

It's a city vs. suburbs tale. Living in downtown Vancouver and working in close proximity to BC Place, the fanbase for MLS seems to be more demographically that of the city of Vancouver. Lions fans generally seem to be from the suburbs. So surrounded by the people I interact with on a daily basis, it would seem that there are more MLS fans or that MLS is growing while the CFL is waning. That's where the misperception arises most likely.

[king10]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Sees that there has been 4 pages of posts the last 24 hours.

Gets excited about something big had happened.

Nope - the monthly CFL / MLS argument

Lmfao. This

[Oilkountry]

It's just so sexy...

[king10]

Ouu. I like that illuminated jets logo.