Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[king10]

Originally Posted by logan5

Rogers Centre baseball capacity could be reduced by about 10 000. Then add some faux historic element to the stadium. Maybe a Camden Yards look to the outfield. Change the colour of the seats as well. That colour adds to the sterile feel of the stadium, just like it did at old BC Place.

Theyve already reduced capacity from 51,000 to 47,000.

They arent going to reduce it to 37,000. That would be the lowest in the majors. I see them going to 45,000 but no lower. When the team does well they sell out. Their last 4 games have sold out and at least 4 games in their next home stand is sold out.

Also IMO the vintage historic ball park has been over done. Sick of it.

Also hotel is privately owned. Dont see it being removed.

[Denscity]

Im hearing that the Grey Cup in Winnipeg this year is still not sold out and have cancelled plans to add additional temporary seating. Whats going on?? New stadium but will have the smallest Grey Cup crowd since the 70s?? "Best stadium in the country by far"

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Once the Argos are out the key items needed in refurbishing Rogers Centre to Baseball only is:
1) re-setting the seating area along the outfield wall to a more baseball friendly manner similar to the renovations in Chicago of US Cellular field for the White Sox that made the bullpen's flush with the seating area, included some ivy and a play batters area for kids.

2) Seat replacement throughout the stadium, most of the seats are 26 years old and their expire date has come up. Also the Jays do not need a 50,000 seat Ballpark on most nights 40k seats would be much more suitable capacity for the club and not make the place feel so cavernous when they are not near a sellout.

3) The stadium has far too much blue paint plastered all over the place there is no contrast it looks cheap. Have a Green outfield wall or something.

4) Ditch the hotel this stadium doesn't need to be the West Edmonton Mall it is a ballpark and make it feel like one.

5) The steel canopies at the entrance gates to the stadium on the outside of the stadium are rusted out and need replacement.

I disagree about the hotel. It is one of the defining features of the stadium, highly unique and adds a little character.

[thurmas]

The Bombers have been so lousy for so long now people in the city have started giving up on the CFL. Everyone here is tired of seeing everyone else over the last 25 years get to win Grey Cup's while we have been the laughing stock of the CFL for so long. Most buddies of mine at work, people at the gym or restaurants are excited about NFL starting now. The CFL is just becoming increasingly bush league in image to younger people as a whole.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thurmas

The Bombers have been so lousy for so long now people in the city have started giving up on the CFL. Everyone here is tired of seeing everyone else over the last 25 years get to win Grey Cup's while we have been the laughing stock of the CFL for so long. Most buddies of mine at work, people at the gym or restaurants are excited about NFL starting now. The CFL is just becoming increasingly bush league in image to younger people as a whole.

That's overstating things a bit. It boils down to team ineptitude and high ticket prices. People would probably overlook one of those factors, but not both.

When the cheapest seat is around $200, people are going to be picky.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by king10

Also IMO the vintage historic ball park has been over done. Sick of it.

Agree, nostalgia is a thing of the past

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Most buddies of mine at work, people at the gym or restaurants are excited about NFL starting now. The CFL is just becoming increasingly bush league in image to younger people as a whole.

Wow, the "Most-buddies-of-mine-at-work, people-at-the-gym-or-restaurants" poll. The gold standard of social science research!

Survey shows CFL is Canada's Number 2 sport, and growing in the U.S.

By Chris Zelkovich
23 June, 2015 4:45 PM


A new survey indicates that interest in the Canadian Football League is surpassed only by hockey in this country and that the league is gaining traction from both young Canadians and Americans. That should give the league a good feeling as it prepares to open its 2015 season on Thursday.

A survey of 4,000 Canadians and 4,000 Americans, conducted online by University of Lethbridge sociologist Reginald Bibby through Vision Critical, shows that 26 per cent of Canadians say they follow the CFL either "very closely" or "fairly closely." That compares with 46 per cent interest in the NHL, 23 per cent in the NFL, 22 per cent in Major League Baseball, 12 per cent in the NBA and 9 per cent in MLS soccer.

"Despite the massive exposure that other sports and leagues receive from both sides of the border, the CFL has been able to hold its own –- something of a cultural miracle," Bibby wrote. "Many other corporate and cultural 'things Canadian' have not been able to withstand the might of American competition.

"These survey findings show that the CFL continues to know considerable vitality. Given that the Internet is giving it unprecedented visibility, the league is now on the verge of an unexpected and extraordinary opportunity to increase its brand exposure well beyond Canada – beginning with the U.S."

The survey also shows that 10 per cent of Americans say they follow the CFL, which may surprise a few people considering the league's lack of presence south of the border.

Equally satisfying to the league is the revelation that the game is attracting younger followers. In the U.S., for example, the strongest interest comes from those under the age of 35. In Canada, the proportion of those aged 18 to 34 who follow the CFL (18 per cent) is only slightly lower than the proportion who follow the NFL (21 per cent.)

"It is widely believed the CFL lacks for young fans in Canada, compared to the NFL," Bibby wrote in his report. "That’s not true. ... It’s just that the CFL has a far larger proportion of fans in the 55 and over cohort than the NFL (33% versus 23%). If the CFL has a problem attracting younger adults, so does the NFL. A devil’s advocate analyst could rightfully make this audacious claim: the NFL is having difficulty attracting older fans in Canada."

The survey has more than its share of surprises:

Almost one in four Americans who say they closely follow NCAA football, also say they closely follow the CFL. Among NCAA fans under 35, 45 per cent say they follow the CFL, too.

Over the past 25 years, Canadian interest in the CFL has increased from 16 to 26 per cent and the NFL from 11 to 23 per cent. The NBA has known a gradual increase from its low interest levels of 4 per cent in 1990, but still stands at only 12 per cent.

Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-gam...rt-and-growing-in-the-u-s-204506711.html

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Once the Argos are out the key items needed in refurbishing Rogers Centre to Baseball only is:
1) re-setting the seating area along the outfield wall to a more baseball friendly manner similar to the renovations in Chicago of US Cellular field for the White Sox that made the bullpen's flush with the seating area, included some ivy and a play batters area for kids.

Yes! One of my least favourite features of Skydome is the gaping hole in centre field. Home runs that just scrape the fence invariably disappear into the never-ending blackness of that storage area or whatever it is. Super lame.

So much could be done with the Dome - your ideas address most of the current deficiencies and you're right to suggest that these are by no means insurmountable. Grass, of course, will be the greatest challenge and the greatest expense going forward, however...

[logan5]

MLS looks like it is here to stay, and is in fact growing in stature every year. This has to be a concern for the CFL and the 3 cities where MLS resides. Now Vancouver is starting to see crowds in the low 20 thousand range. CFL games look dull compared to what the experience is like at an MLS match. You can hear it and see it through the TV broadcasts. The energy and excitement at an MLS match are 20 notches above a CFL game. THe CFL has to drastically pick up their game or they are going to be snuffed out.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Wow, the "Most-buddies-of-mine-at-work, people-at-the-gym-or-restaurants" poll. The gold standard of social science research!



Source: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-gam...rt-and-growing-in-the-u-s-204506711.html

I love the CFL......But Most of the teens and 20 somethings that i know avoid going to games. They don't watch on t.v or follow stats. I have 3 boys that have played football for 9 years and 1 plays for the Wildcats in Edmonton. They have to do the 50/50 for the Esks games and dred it. I ask them why....their response is.... to many jerks and drunks!!!! They don't mind the the game...but prefer the NFL.

[king10]

Good thing they havent been to bills games then. Lots of jerks and drunks.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

Good thing they havent been to bills games then. Lots of jerks and drunks.

Haha, I've been to football games in different cities in North America and I think it's fair to say that they tend to attract a slightly rowdier crowd than other sports do.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by esquire

Haha, I've been to football games in different cities in North America and I think it's fair to say that they tend to attract a slightly rowdier crowd than other sports do.

Anytime the Riders are in town or during the Labour day game it can get pretty bad a McMahon. Seen my share of fights in the stands, especially Labour day. Definetely a rowdy crowd. lol

Par for the course though in such a repulsive city. Rodeos, oil, snow. oh my!

[thurmas]

Don't get me wrong I love the CFL and my Bombers but there is zero buzz about this team in Winnipeg right now at 3-5 and rightfully so,not having a winning season since 2011. This is making it much harder to get a buzz going for the Grey Cup this year. The CFL is obviously in far better shape than in the 1990's but the TV ratings are flat, the Blue Jays current historical playoff run is wiping them off the sports radar right now in media coverage and there are serious signs of stagnation and lack of support in Montreal and Vancouver now that need to be addressed very soon!

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by king10

Good thing they havent been to bills games then. Lots of jerks and drunks.

I was at Ralph Wilson Stadium 2 years ago to see the Bills and New England. 2 fights in parking lot at tail gate party. There was 7 of us from Edmonton. 6 of the guys bought New England Jerseys. I bought a bills jersey. Needless to say I was not the one heckled. One of our guys bought a t-shirt from a vendor that said...Brady is a lady! Security removed it from him before we got into the stadium. Great atmosphere but security is 10x there than it is here. Its like they don't think there is a problem here.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by logan5

THe CFL has to drastically pick up their game or they are going to be snuffed out.

Do you really need me post the once-again dismal ratings for MLS in 2015, so dismal that they do not even register on the weekly list of the 25 most-watched sports broadcasts in Canada, while the CFL and the Blue Jays are at the very top? Or how the latest scientific surveys show the CFL absolutely crushing the MLS in every single demographic regarding most-followed sports leagues?

Because I can if you really, really, really need me to.

Did you not even bother to read the 2015 scientific survey that you are supposedly responding to:

Survey shows CFL is Canada's Number 2 sport, and growing in the U.S.

A survey of 4,000 Canadians and 4,000 Americans, conducted online by University of Lethbridge sociologist Reginald Bibby through Vision Critical, shows that 26 per cent of Canadians say they follow the CFL either "very closely" or "fairly closely." That compares with 46 per cent interest in the NHL, 23 per cent in the NFL, 22 per cent in Major League Baseball, 12 per cent in the NBA and 9 per cent in MLS soccer.

MLS (9%) is dead last. DEAD LAST. The CFL's following is 300% greater than the MLS.

[logan5]

I was more specifically talking about Vancouver. The Whitecaps are gaining, while the Lions are losing fans. The CFL can't afford to have the Lions playing second fiddle to the Whitecaps, but that's where things are heading. And it's not unprecedented. Back in the old NASL days, the Whitecaps were ahead of the Lions in popularity, and it's likely to happen again. The saving grace for the Lions and maybe the CFL was that the NASL folded. It doesn't look like MLS is going to fold anytime soon so that makes me worry that the CFL will gets pushed further down.

The Whitecaps TV ratings are not that bad. An all Canadian MLS match-up in March drew 350 000 viewers, which I believe is about half of what CFL broadcasts get, so the disparity is not all that great when you have 2 Canadian markets, as it always is with the CFL. The ratings for MLS are trending up.

I'm not rooting for the death of the CFL, I'm just saying the CFL needs to compete harder now if they want to survive.

[esquire]

Anyone notice that the teams that have suddenly developed fanbase "issues" according to this thread are the ones that are performing poorly in the standings this season? You don't suppose that there may be a correlation?

The Bombers have been brutal for 4 years running, there's your reason for fan apathy. It was the exact same way in the mid/late 90s until the Bombers began winning again in the early 2000s. The Lions and Als are decidedly mediocre this season, so it's no surprise that there is no run on the box office in those markets.

I know everyone appreciates drama, but the overreactions here are a bit much. "OMG! Vancouver forgot about the Lions!" They're 3-5, not a shocker that fans are subdued.

[logan5]

The CFL lost Montreal once already and now they have a Francophone MLS star that they can connect with. The Lions are now taking cues from the Whitecaps on stadium arrangement and the Whitecaps are close to matching the Lions in attendance with twice as many games. The CFL cannot survive without the big 3. You can trumpet todays ratings all you want, but a few years down the road MLS is going to steamroll the CFL. Maybe the CFL can't do anymore than what they are doing, and it's the cold reality of natural selection.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by logan5

I was more specifically talking about Vancouver. The Whitecaps are gaining, while the Lions are losing fans. The CFL can't afford to have the Lions playing second fiddle to the Whitecaps, but that's where things are heading. And it's not unprecedented. Back in the old NASL days, the Whitecaps were ahead of the Lions in popularity, and it's likely to happen again. The saving grace for the Lions and maybe the CFL was that the NASL folded. It doesn't look like MLS is going to fold anytime soon so that makes me worry that the CFL will gets pushed further down.

The Whitecaps TV ratings are not that bad. An all Canadian MLS match-up in March drew 350 000 viewers, which I believe is about half of what CFL broadcasts get, so the disparity is not all that great when you have 2 Canadian markets, as it always is with the CFL. The ratings for MLS are trending up.

I'm not rooting for the death of the CFL, I'm just saying the CFL needs to compete harder now if they want to survive.

By the way, the Whitecaps were never ahead of the Lions in popularity during the NASL days, a fact already empirically demonstrated (but ignored by you as usual) years ago. Anyways, here is the latest empirical data regarding popularity broken down regionally (to be ignored by you once again, I am sure):

University of Lethbridge (2015):


Source: http://www.reginaldbibby.com/thingsnew.html


Angus Reid Institute (2014):


Source: http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CFL-Grey-Cup-2014.pdf


Thus, according to the objective data, the CFL is not just significantly ahead of MLS in popularity in BC; the CFL's popularity in BC has actually grown substantially in the last year, while MLS' popularity has stagnated.

Even with neglectful ownership and inept management and the lowest attendance and some of the lamest teams in years, the CFL is not just surviving but thriving in relation to MLS regarding popularity, regional or otherwise.

Now, out of love for all things Vancouver and British Columbia, I sincerely hope the Whitecaps can eventually translate the passion demonstrated by their fans inside the stadium into wider popularity among the general population outside the stadium.

And I look forward to you one day actually providing credible objective data to support such an assertion.