New Downtown Calgary Arena

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Estimated cost is $890M I think, or under $1B ... Wonder how much they're planning for on the re mediation:

"Bow trail works fine where it is" apparently....

[Coldrsx]

Powerpoint slide indicates Flames putting in $200M, $240M from community revitalization levy, $250M tix tax, $200M from city for fieldhouse.


@ChrisVarcoe

[nick.flood]

delete

[rkarsk]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Powerpoint slide indicates Flames putting in $200M, $240M from community revitalization levy, $250M tix tax, $200M from city for fieldhouse.


@ChrisVarcoe

So the Flames are putting in 20% for something they will own 100% of. If I am wrong, someone please explain this to me.

[Surrealplaces]

So ....looks like this will involve a fair bit af tax money. I thought it was just the 200Mil, but more like about half.

[Chealion]

Following the tweets I may have been a little more snarky than I should be but I was really frustrated with, to paraphrase a tweet from Bigtime, the lack of homework done. Especially with "Bow Trail is fine as is".

Having a new arena, and fieldhouse would be cool but they really have not done anything to convince me that it's the best use of the West Village land especially compared to the existing West Village ARP.

Also, kind of surprised by the general lack of parking planned.

That the $900M estimate doesn't include the clean up I think is really misleading.

[Surrealplaces]

So ....looks like this will involve a fair bit af tax money. I thought it was just the 200Mil, but more like about half. Although I suppose the levi is kind of a different type of deal.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by rkarsk

So the Flames are putting in 20% for something they will own 100% of. If I am wrong, someone please explain this to me.

I believe it will actually be a City asset, from what I heard ... So the City would still own the land

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by rkarsk

So the Flames are putting in 20% for something they will own 100% of. If I am wrong, someone please explain this to me.

KK says the new facility will be city-owned, just as the Saddledome is now

Edit: Damn you, Pennypacker.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by rkarsk

So the Flames are putting in 20% for something they will own 100% of. If I am wrong, someone please explain this to me.

On twitter someone at the presentation noted that it was said the city would own. And the Flames money versus the ticket tax is entirely fungible. They could have easily labeled the box 'Flames/Event Users'.

[Fuzz]

Ugh. 2 things.
1. Bow Trail shouldn't be that close to the river and pathway. Not a friendly pedestrian experience.

2. Those billionaires couldn't scrounge up a few more of their own dollars to avoid a massive "ticket tax". And really, in some form or other they expect taxpayers to cover $440 million? Am I reading that right? This is their imaginary budget, I hope.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

I believe it will actually be a City asset, from what I heard ... So the City would still own the land

Originally Posted by Me&You

KK says the new facility will be city-owned, just as the Saddledome is now

Edit: Damn you, Pennypacker.

Is that for the stadium, or both arena and stadium?

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Is that for the stadium, or both arena and stadium?

I assume both the arena and stadium

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Powerpoint slide indicates Flames putting in $200M, $240M from community revitalization levy, $250M tix tax, $200M from city for fieldhouse.


@ChrisVarcoe

So the breakdown essentially works out to the Flames organization footing 51% of the cost with the ticket tax and initial investment.

The City puts up $440 million in return for a field-house facility and community arena (in additional to the public benefit of redeveloping an underutilized area and replacing our ancient stadium).

Seems to be a decent proposition.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ugh. 2 things.
1. Bow Trail shouldn't be that close to the river and pathway. Not a friendly pedestrian experience.

2. Those billionaires couldn't scrounge up a few more of their own dollars to avoid a massive "ticket tax". And really, in some form or other they expect taxpayers to cover $440 million? Am I reading that right? This is their imaginary budget, I hope.

Whether the ticket tax is transparent or comes from the Flames organization directly doesn't really matter. Corporations pass 100% of taxes to their consumers as long as demand isn't depressed by the tax.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

So the breakdown essentially works out to the Flames organization footing 51% of the cost with the ticket tax and initial investment.

The City puts up $440 million in return for a field-house facility and community arena (in additional to the public benefit of redeveloping an underutilized area and replacing our ancient stadium).

Seems to be a decent proposition.

I agree - especially if the City is going to own it all .. But the question remains who is going to pay for clean up of the GSL site?

That won't be cheap.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

I agree - especially if the City is going to own it all .. But the question remains who is going to pay for clean up of the GSL site?

That won't be cheap.

The clean up costs are sunk. It will happen no matter what. The city should have been carrying an unfunded liability on its books as it assembled the land. Now, whether it is desirable to remediate to the point of adding residential, the city already decided cost unseen that that is the case.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The clean up costs are sunk. It will happen no matter what. The city should have been carrying an unfunded liability on its books as it assembled the land. Now, whether it is desirable to remediate to the point of adding residential, the city already decided cost unseen that that is the case.

Exactly. These lands are going to be developed at some point and the cost for remediation will be a public responsibility regardless of how development of the West Village proceeds, as there is no corporate entity remaining that can be held responsible for the cost of cleanup:

Domtar Corporation was the last known owner and operator of this site; however, the corporation no longer exists as a corporate entity in the Province of Alberta. This prevents the Government of Alberta from enforcing the polluter pays principles of the Environment Protection and Enhancement Act. As such, we are working on remediation and monitoring of this site in partnership with the City of Calgary.

[lubicon]

So is there going to be a fieldhouse or a stadium? Big difference.

my initial thoughts:

1. assuming it is an outdoor stadium then the chances if it ever holding concerts etc. are slim to none with residential surrounding the srea on three sides essentially. So no gain compared to McMahon in that regard.

2. if the City retains ownership of the land and building then presumably they will also be legally responsible for the environmental cleanup and maintenance of the lands. From the Flames perspective (or anyone who would build on this site for that matter) this could be one of the most important aspects as it hangs any associated costs on the taxpayer and not the tenants. That's potentially a very large issue.

[CorporateWhore]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty underwhelmed by that presentation.