New Downtown Calgary Arena

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Delusion? Saying an empty box in the middle of a parking lot is a tourist draw is

A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

[Full Mountain]

Here's my go at this:

- If they want the west village land, they get to remediate it. From my understanding the future land value and the remediation cost are equal.

- If they want upgraded roads or want to put a significant amount of parking they get to pay for it. Further no parking should be allowed at grade, it should all be structured above or below grade. Potential consideration should be given to restricting parking similar to the downtown core.

- If we are going to provide money for a fieldhouse we should have the equivalent usage time we would have gotten at Foothills (I assume this would be 100%) otherwise the contribution to the project decrease on an exponential curve (X^4 sort of curve, 80% use = Approx. $82M).

- Any pitch that includes economic benefits needs to have the study released in its entirety. However there would have to be a significant change in the basis for this to be anything but scrap paper (i.e. current experience has not shown any distinguishable economic benefits).

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

Really? Do we have many of these events currently? Is there a significant potential of attracting other events?

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Here's my go at this:

- If they want the west village land, they get to remediate it. From my understanding the future land value and the remediation cost are equal.

- If they want upgraded roads or want to put a significant amount of parking they get to pay for it. Further no parking should be allowed at grade, it should all be structured above or below grade.

- If we are going to provide money for a fieldhouse we should have the equivalent usage time we would have gotten at Foothills (I assume this would be 100%) otherwise the contribution to the project decrease on an exponential curve (X^4 sort of curve, 80% use = Approx. $82M).

- Any pitch that includes economic benefits needs to have the study released in its entirety. However there would have to be a significant change in the basis for this to be anything but scrap paper (i.e. current experience has not shown any distinguishable economic benefits).

That all sounds reasonable.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

My understanding, including from a couple casual conversations that I can't say more about & you won't believe me anyway, is that the complex is meant to pull in more events than just sports. There are events, for example, that go in the BMO centre, which are okay in the BMO centre but could be better in this type of arrangement. There may also be some types of events that Calgary currently can't bid for that the BMO centre would be stretched for.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sounds like he is looking for $200 million of public funds.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/201...algarynext--project-fuels-arena-spe.html

Yep. Exactly what I expected. But he swore up and down they wouldn't be asking Calgarians for money.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

Quite a few of the people I worked with in Calgary did a couple of these every year with their kids, but they were always in random little towns in BC or the Inland NW where accommodations and ice were more affordable.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by suburbia

My understanding, including from a couple casual conversations that I can't say more about & you won't believe me anyway, is that the complex is meant to pull in more events than just sports. There are events, for example, that go in the BMO centre, which are okay in the BMO centre but could be better in this type of arrangement. There may also be some types of events that Calgary currently can't bid for that the BMO centre would be stretched for.

This same source has also indicated that the complex will double the number of annual tourist visits to Fire Park.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Yep. Exactly what I expected. But he swore up and down they wouldn't be asking Calgarians for money.

That is money for the field-house, which was identified as a priority for funding by city council iirc. If that money can be leveraged into something bigger, then great!

I also expect them to ask for and get the super favourable tax treatment they enjoy in the dome, and an interesting partnership with a CRL to pay for cleanup, LRT upgrades and associated neighbourhood costs.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Quite a few of the people I worked with in Calgary did a couple of these every year with their kids, but they were always in random little towns in BC or the Inland NW where accommodations and ice were more affordable.

Well, few places have the infrastructure for indoor javelin!

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Well, few places have the infrastructure for indoor javelin!

Not to mention indoor javelin catching. Now that would fill seats.

[Bigtime]

Time to start discussing the future of the Saddledome? Perhaps a new thread for that?

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Time to start discussing the future of the Saddledome? Perhaps a new thread for that?

I can't think of any future for the Saddledome that's realistic and financially viable. I think a hot date with a wrecking ball is inevitable.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

I can't think of any future for the Saddledome that's realistic and financially viable. I think a hot date with a wrecking ball is inevitable.

Water park

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Water park

[MalcolmTucker]

Construction of CalgaryNEXT likely won't start for another three years if approved for downtown west end

The source said the Flames organization will finance the arena portion themselves and ask the city to contribute “in the range of $200 million” toward the stadium-fieldhouse, which will be home to the Stampeders for games and practices and otherwise be open for public use.

[Innersoul1]

Okay, here is what I think.

The field house concept is a unique one and in order for it to work for a proper stadium it will have to be executed perfectly. Consider what the height of the roof would have to be in order to accommodate punts and soccer goalies booting the ball, oh and javelin throwing Add to this a concourse that would need to be functional for both food and beverage and washroom facilities and i really think that it's a big ask. Google the worlds largest field house or multi-sport facility and nothing really comes up. Because the facilities don't really exist. The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.
Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
Credit: Wikipedia

I also think that the prospect of a summer Olympic games in Calgary is WAY out of the question. If Calgarians don't have an appetite for tax funded venues then the Olympics are in no way going to happen here. The number of venues needed for a summer games are well beyond what ever this NEXT project might be. No point going there.

I agree that a fieldhouse has the ability to attract tourism dollars in the form of both amateur and elite sports. There is a shortage of venues for sure. Think of International Friendly soccer games and what the draw for something like that might be.

I am very curious to see what happens Tuesday. I am also hoping someone calls King out for being so Vague. Let's call this the Ryugyong Arena project

[s211]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Water park

Didn't one of the Montreal expo facilities get repurposed as a biodome or something along that line?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.
Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
Credit: Wikipedia

That looks like only a 200m track, and not even full size.

That being said, I don't think we discount it just because something exactly like what would be needed doesn't exist. Heck, our Olympic Oval has a 440M track around the perimeter with some stands, a long jump pit and the rest of it. It also has an artificial surface they've laid out for soccer games in the past. What it doesn't have is proper washroom facilities, entry and exit bandwidth and nor a proper reception / lobby / concourse area, HVAC and seating beyond 4K, but the structure is interesting. The Richmond Oval is much better on many fronts (concourse, washrooms, entry/exit bandwidth), and perhaps that is a starting point touchstone. More seats means higher roof, so those items are integrated and not much of an issue.

These two structures, in addition to actual field-houses, may actually help our imaginations.

Of course, what do I know.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Okay, here is what I think.

The field house concept is a unique one and in order for it to work for a proper stadium it will have to be executed perfectly. Consider what the height of the roof would have to be in order to accommodate punts and soccer goalies booting the ball, oh and javelin throwing Add to this a concourse that would need to be functional for both food and beverage and washroom facilities and i really think that it's a big ask. Google the worlds largest field house or multi-sport facility and nothing really comes up. Because the facilities don't really exist. The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.

Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
Credit: Wikipedia

I also think that the prospect of a summer Olympic games in Calgary is WAY out of the question. If Calgarians don't have an appetite for tax funded venues then the Olympics are in no way going to happen here. The number of venues needed for a summer games are well beyond what ever this NEXT project might be. No point going there.

I agree that a fieldhouse has the ability to attract tourism dollars in the form of both amateur and elite sports. There is a shortage of venues for sure. Think of International Friendly soccer games and what the draw for something like that might be.

I am very curious to see what happens Tuesday. I am also hoping someone calls King out for being so Vague. Let's call this the Ryugyong Arena project

Here is the The City of Birmingham's CrossPlex's field-house with a 200m track:


Source: https://uabrecsports.wordpress.com/tag/uab/

Hydraulically actuated track so it can switch to banked curves and back.
Floor layout:

source: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/albr...pdf/2011-12/misc_non_event/CrossPlex.pdf

North Dakota's is larger, with a 300m track, more like the concept shown by the fieldhouse society:

source: http://www.iconarchitects.com/projects/masterplan/indoor-practice-facility.html


source: http://www.iconarchitects.com/projects/masterplan/indoor-practice-facility.html

Of course, as the track, and then room for spectators gets longer, the roof span gets longer too. And what is it, double the length, quadruple the complexity right?