Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

Does anyone know why YOW-FRA is being diverted to YYZ tonight? The plane was above YQB, when it turned around and is schedule to land in YYZ at 18:45!

On-board weather radar equipment failure. Parts/labour may have been more readily available in YYZ rather than YUL.

It's scheduled to depart YYZ at 21:40

[VaskoYOW]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

On-board weather radar equipment failure. Parts/labour may have been more readily available in YYZ rather than YUL.

It's scheduled to depart YYZ at 21:40

Thank you!

[MountainView]

Speaking of YOW-FRA not sure if mentioned already but it will end October 25 for the winter season (again sadly). I bet when AC has more 787s and transfers the remaining young 767s to AC Rouge the route could stay year round (daily or not).

[VaskoYOW]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Speaking of YOW-FRA not sure if mentioned already but it will end October 25 for the winter season (again sadly). I bet when AC has more 787s and transfers the remaining young 767s to AC Rouge the route could stay year round (daily or not).

I rather have the YOW-LHR seasonal than the YOW-FRA. FRA being a Star Alliance with AC brings more passengers through FRA compare to LHR and "Oneworld". My opinion at least.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

I rather have the YOW-LHR seasonal than the YOW-FRA. FRA being a Star Alliance with AC brings more passengers through FRA compare to LHR and "Oneworld". My opinion at least.

In terms of connections, FRA is way better, but in terms of yield to AC, I'm guessing LHR is more lucrative. A couple of years ago (can't find the source, sorry), I remember reading that over 50% of YOW-LHR traffic is O&D, whereas YOW-FRA is only 15% O&D. LHR is by far YOW's largest overseas destination in terms of demand/O&D traffic. Yield is almost always higher on origin & destination pax.

I'd imagine Paris is 2nd by a wide margin, but I'd hazard a guess that at least 50% of YOW-CDG traffic is leaked to YUL (via those AF buses, Via Rail and driving).

I sure hope the new VP of Biz Development & Marketing (whoever he/she is as I have yet to hear an announcement) makes the return of YOW-FRA service their #1 priority and landing YOW-MIA on AA with an E75 the #2 priority and YOW-ATL on DL the #3 priority.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by sgera

High tech sector picking up is what I think ... TB growth tends to parallel tech industry

Another thing to keep in mind in terms of TB growth is YOW-Florida (mostly) leisure traffic, including AC's YOW-MCO operating on Saturdays in May for the first time ever and AC's YOW-FLL now year-round weekend service which started in May too. That's an extra 30 flights to/from Florida that didn't exist last year on E90 equipment (May this year had 5 Saturdays & Sundays this year). Assuming a conservative 75% load factor, that's an extra 2,200 TB pax for the month of May there alone.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

In terms of connections, FRA is way better, but in terms of yield to AC, I'm guessing LHR is more lucrative. A couple of years ago (can't find the source, sorry), I remember reading that over 50% of YOW-LHR traffic is O&D, whereas YOW-FRA is only 15% O&D. LHR is by far YOW's largest overseas destination in terms of demand/O&D traffic. Yield is almost always higher on origin & destination pax.

I'd imagine Paris is 2nd by a wide margin, but I'd hazard a guess that at least 50% of YOW-CDG traffic is leaked to YUL (via those AF buses, Via Rail and driving).

I sure hope the new VP of Biz Development & Marketing (whoever he/she is as I have yet to hear an announcement) makes the return of YOW-FRA service their #1 priority and landing YOW-MIA on AA with an E75 the #2 priority and YOW-ATL on DL the #3 priority.

I wonder what are the actual numbers. When I was in the travel industry 15 years ago, the demand appeared very high. I was stunned by what YUL was sucking out of YOW. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those CDG bound wide bodies departing YUL every day should be doing so from YOW, based on O&D traffic only.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I wonder what are the actual numbers. When I was in the travel industry 15 years ago, the demand appeared very high. I was stunned by what YUL was sucking out of YOW. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those CDG bound wide bodies departing YUL every day should be doing so from YOW, based on O&D traffic only.

During weekdays there are three coach buses from Ottawa to YUL. Two operated by Air France and one operated by KLM. So anywhere from 10-25% of the YUL-CDG/AMS flights could be filled with people who bused from Ottawa. This doesn't even count people who booked their ticket YUL-XXX and drive or train there. The coach buses are for people who book on AF/KLM website.

If anyone is interested the buses have 'flight numbers' too. AF311, AF313, and KL300.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by MountainView

During weekdays there are three coach buses from Ottawa to YUL. Two operated by Air France and one operated by KLM. So anywhere from 10-25% of the YUL-CDG/AMS flights could be filled with people who bused from Ottawa. This doesn't even count people who booked their ticket YUL-XXX and drive or train there. The coach buses are for people who book on AF/KLM website.

If anyone is interested the buses have 'flight numbers' too. AF311, AF313, and KL300.

Nor does it count the ones using AC.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by MountainView

During weekdays there are three coach buses from Ottawa to YUL. Two operated by Air France and one operated by KLM. So anywhere from 10-25% of the YUL-CDG/AMS flights could be filled with people who bused from Ottawa. This doesn't even count people who booked their ticket YUL-XXX and drive or train there. The coach buses are for people who book on AF/KLM website.

If anyone is interested the buses have 'flight numbers' too. AF311, AF313, and KL300.

Almost certainly the low end of that. There are 3 AF flights a day, hence the 3 buses... there is also one KLM flight which departs within a 1/2 hour of one of the AF flights, so they probably double up on a bus.

AF runs 2x772 and 1x343, KLM runs 1x300 for a total of 1133 seats per day. 10% of that is 113/3 or 38 people per bus. I'm not sure what one bus would hold (50-60 maybe?)... but I have a hard time picturing it stuffed to the max.

Has anybody been on one and could comment on the bus "load factor" ???

[Radster]

I have taken the KLM bus a few times over the past decade, and I can attest that the load factor was always between 50-75% each time.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Almost certainly the low end of that. There are 3 AF flights a day, hence the 3 buses... there is also one KLM flight which departs within a 1/2 hour of one of the AF flights, so they probably double up on a bus.

AF runs 2x772 and 1x343, KLM runs 1x300 for a total of 1133 seats per day. 10% of that is 113/3 or 38 people per bus. I'm not sure what one bus would hold (50-60 maybe?)... but I have a hard time picturing it stuffed to the max.

Has anybody been on one and could comment on the bus "load factor" ???

Took the air France bus last June. Maybe 20 folks on board. Coming back in July there were fewer. Maybe 14. Seems like some folks got picked up on the way home from dorval. The driver had a list and kept waiting - but in the end gave up. Incidentally it was the same driver that brought me there in June. Very skilled operator.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Took the air France bus last June. Maybe 20 folks on board. Coming back in July there were fewer. Maybe 14. Seems like some folks got picked up on the way home from dorval. The driver had a list and kept waiting - but in the end gave up. Incidentally it was the same driver that brought me there in June. Very skilled operator.

I have taken the bus twice in the past year and 15-20 was about average for my experience too. I used to take the train from Kingston years ago to Dorval, but it seems to be more of a hassle now with an extra shuttle involved. Generally I drive once a year for a flight from Momtreal usually because of a direct flight. For example It is easier and faster to drive to Montreal and fly direct to Paris than connect out of Ottawa.

[sgera]

Anyone know why the area by the American gates is fenced off? Looks like construction. They actually removed a gate too. Someone earlier mentioned this was a site for a hotel?

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by sgera

Anyone know why the area by the American gates is fenced off? Looks like construction. They actually removed a gate too. Someone earlier mentioned this was a site for a hotel?

"Gates 1 & 2" are just hard stands without jetway. I'm wondering if there are preparations to install jetways for 1 & 2?

Currently jetway for gate 3 has been removed. Maybe there's some prep work required before the next phase of expansion?

I noticed all of that a few weeks ago, but only recently was the jetbridge for #3 moved.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Nor does it count the ones using AC.

AC would count out of YOW if they're departing YOW and connecting at YUL, but not if they make their way from Ottawa to depart directly from YUL.

On the leisure side, I bet Corsair and especially TS suck a lot of YOW-CDG pax. It always boggles my mind how much TS neglect Ottawa...as they know Ottawa transatlantic leisure pax are still suckers for driving the 2 hours to YUL.

Europe Airpost serves YHZ-CDG weekly with an intermediate stop at DUB on a 73G. I bet they could easily fill 2 73Gs per week out of YOW during the summer months with an intermediate 45 minute-1 hour stop at St. Pierre...off the coast of Newfoundland and who are also lacking a Paris connection. Considering the St. Pierre airport has an 1,800m/5,900 ft runway at sea level in a locale that never gets warmer than 26C, that should be plenty long enough for a 73G to make the 5 hour leg to CDG. Landing Europe Airport would be true out-of-the-box thinking by the Airport Authority.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

"Gates 1 & 2" are just hard stands without jetway. I'm wondering if there are preparations to install jetways for 1 & 2?

Currently jetway for gate 3 has been removed. Maybe there's some prep work required before the next phase of expansion?

I noticed all of that a few weeks ago, but only recently was the jetbridge for #3 moved.

Yeah I noticed that too a couple of weeks ago while at the airport. By the looks of it, jetbridges are being installed at gates 1 & 2. I wonder if the bridge formerly on 3 that at the time I was there, was sitting by 1, will be re-located to 1? It could also be that the bridge from 3 is getting replaced at the same time as 1 & 2 get new bridges. The Airport Authority are gradually replacing the DEW bridges which were installed on 3, 5, 6 and 11 to 18. Given the stagnant pax numbers (and fewer transborder flights nowadays), I doubt the airport will need to add more gates any time soon.

About half of them have already been replaced with I'm guessing ThyssenKrupp (although they look slightly different, so maybe they're Jetway Systems bridges) like is installed in the newer wing of the terminal (i.e. the bridges in the 20s). From memory a couple of weeks ago, 13, 14, 16 & 17 have already been replaced. What's interesting is the gate number signs for the old DEW bridges have been re-installed on the new bridges. Ottawa's DEW Engineering no longer manufacture loading bridges.

[McC]

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[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

AC would count out of YOW if they're departing YOW and connecting at YUL, but not if they make their way from Ottawa to depart directly from YUL.

On the leisure side, I bet Corsair and especially TS suck a lot of YOW-CDG pax. It always boggles my mind how much TS neglect Ottawa...as they know Ottawa transatlantic leisure pax are still suckers for driving the 2 hours to YUL.

Europe Airpost serves YHZ-CDG weekly with an intermediate stop at DUB on a 73G. I bet they could easily fill 2 73Gs per week out of YOW during the summer months with an intermediate 45 minute-1 hour stop at St. Pierre...off the coast of Newfoundland and who are also lacking a Paris connection. Considering the St. Pierre airport has an 1,800m/5,900 ft runway at sea level in a locale that never gets warmer than 26C, that should be plenty long enough for a 73G to make the 5 hour leg to CDG. Landing Europe Airport would be true out-of-the-box thinking by the Airport Authority.

That's pretty much it. The canadian airline industry in respect to YOW transborder and international is "we have to serve it if not someone else (american companies) will." And when I used to work in the industry in my early 20s, what dominated conversations with Montreal package tour companies at industry fairs in Ottawa was always the times and ways to get to Dorval. They saw Ottawa as a satellite city of Montreal. You can't blame them as it is just the nature of the business after all. KLM use to fly a 747 3 or 4 time weekly in the early 90s... Load factors were great and my contacts at KLM confirmed that they had plans to bring the flight to daily during the summer months. Who killed it? YUL and AC. But YOW has done a good job at chipping away at YUL's domination in the region over the years, although they still have a long way ahead. YOW's number's should be comparable to YEG's. CDG or AMS is just a matter of time.

[YowItaliano]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

That's pretty much it. The canadian airline industry in respect to YOW transborder and international is "we have to serve it if not someone else (american companies) will." And when I used to work in the industry in my early 20s, what dominated conversations with Montreal package tour companies at industry fairs in Ottawa was always the times and ways to get to Dorval. They saw Ottawa as a satellite city of Montreal. You can't blame them as it is just the nature of the business after all. KLM use to fly a 747 3 or 4 time weekly in the early 90s... Load factors were great and my contacts at KLM confirmed that they had plans to bring the flight to daily during the summer months. Who killed it? YUL and AC. But YOW has done a good job at chipping away at YUL's domination in the region over the years, although they still have a long way ahead. YOW's number's should be comparable to YEG's. CDG or AMS is just a matter of time.

I flew my family and myself to Venice (VCE) last January with KLM instead of Air Canada due to the lack of YOW-FRA flight. My parents, who spend their winters in Italy continue to do so as well.
The bus trip-"flight" is a pain, but the savings plus the lack of the 1 stopper in FRA has made us forget about our Aeroplan points.
Air Canada better think twice before Air France/KLM take advantage and bring a 1 stopper for us to either AMS or CDG!!