Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Gordon]

The plebiscite was a silly Liberal election promise that likely would have been made had any other candidate won the Liberal leadership

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Rico

The amount of test holes/drill holes required for Broadway will be dependant on the underlying soil/rock. I doubt the Evergreen experience will affect any planning for portions of Broadway that are rock. The problems on the Evergreen route (and Big Bertha) are large bore tunnels in relatively 'loose' (poorly consolidated) soils, not when it is rock. Without looking it up (there are maps that show basic geological layers for Vancouver) I would assume any bored tunnel on Broadway will be in the underlying rock. It may influence any portions that are in till (soil).

I no longer have any hope the Broadway line will start any time soon. Pretty sure Christy will kill any attempt while she is in Victoria.

Rico:

Your comments on the rock make sense. Thank you.

Your perspective that Christy is playing vindictive politics may also be right.

Result .. a new bridge across the South Fraser (for cars) and nothing for RR transit.

[whatnext]

Does anyone know where exactly the station at Granville and Broadway would go?

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Does anyone know where exactly the station at Granville and Broadway would go?

I have been asking real estate agents that I know and who work that area that same question.

It depends on where Translink is able to buy property.

The box will be either east of Granville or west of Granville. I have heard that Translink has acquired property on the north side of Broadway, somewhere east of the Memphis Blues.

On Oak street, Translink seems to have bought The Bank of NS building on the SW corner .

On Cambie, they already own the SE corner of Cambie and Broadway, so it is pretty sure that the box will be east of Cambie along either Broadway or 10th avenue.

I know that Translink has bought the Blockbusters property on the corner of Arbutus and Broadway.

No clue as to Burrard or Main street.

[SFUVancouver]

It's worth remembering that there are knock-out panels and a roughed in station house at Cambie and Broadway in the Crossroads project. Whole Foods currently uses the station house as a storage room. I've seen photos and it's pretty surreal: roughed in elevator core, stairwell, and escalator right-of-way. They call it the 'subway room'. If and when the platforms are extended to 50 metres, I believe they will be able to do the connect to the knock-out panel of the Whole Foods subway room, but I'm not certain of this.

The approved design for the office building that is planned for the SE corner of Broadway and Oak will have something similar to Crossroads: a roughed-in station house, with the grade-level portion being leased out as retail until the station is built. This station house could access a Broadway or 10th Avenue alignment.

The Pinnacle on Broadway building at Broadway and Maple/railway ROW at Arbutus was designed so that a station house could be built in the plaza area between the building and the railway ROW and there is clear access down below grade, though I'm not sure if that means a roughed-in station or just no structure/parking below grade, meaning that the station house would have to be excavated. This would only easily access a Broadway alignment.

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

No clue as to Burrard or Main street.

As for Burrard and Broadway, I could see Translink buying the building at the SW corner of Broadway and Burrard, the one where the Spy Store has been forever. That would let them have flexibility for either a Broadway or 10th Avenue alignment. However, I know of no plans for a station at that location.

For Main and Broadway, I think that the best choice location would be the parking lot at the corner of Broadway and Main, however my money is on the Kingsgate Mall site. They could have a whole lot more space to work with by taking the Broadway & Kingsway corner and staging construction from the parking lot. That site is up for redevelopment in the coming years and an announcement of the Broadway Line could be what triggers the School Board to pull the trigger and proceed with parcelization and redevelopment.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

I have been asking real estate agents that I know and who work that area that same question.

It depends on where Translink is able to buy property.

The box will be either east of Granville or west of Granville. I have heard that Translink has acquired property on the north side of Broadway, somewhere east of the Memphis Blues.

On Oak street, Translink seems to have bought The Bank of NS building on the SW corner .

On Cambie, they already own the SE corner of Cambie and Broadway, so it is pretty sure that the box will be east of Cambie along either Broadway or 10th avenue.

I know that Translink has bought the Blockbusters property on the corner of Arbutus and Broadway.

No clue as to Burrard or Main street.

Thanks, I had noticed there was an empty and boarded-up 4 story office building on the north side of Broadway just west of Granville and thought maybe that was it.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

As for Burrard and Broadway, I could see Translink buying the building at the SW corner of Broadway and Burrard, the one where the Spy Store has been forever. That would let them have flexibility for either a Broadway or 10th Avenue alignment.

I don't think a station is planned for Burrard & Broadway.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I don't think a station is planned for Burrard & Broadway.

I don't think that one is, but I was responding to the question of where one could be. With Burrard being so close to Granville and Arbutus, it seems like an unlikely prospect considering the additional cost.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I don't think that one is, but I was responding to the question of where one could be. With Burrard being so close to Granville and Arbutus, it seems like an unlikely prospect considering the additional cost.

Tunnel Ventilation or Construction Staging.

[dandor31]

The Main St Station is currently planned for the Southeast corner of Main and Broadway. This is where the Independent sales building was (recently demolished). You can see the location on pages 13 and 63 of the Mount Pleasant Community Plan and an artist rendering on page 70. Sorry it's a huge document, but its an interesting read if you like urban planning!!

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/mount-pleasant-community-plan-implementation-package.pdf

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Still trying to figure out which intelligent electorate voted in the Clark administration and why?

Originally Posted by Rico

Not really, I do think she is a terrible Premier (currently tied with Glen Clark as the worst in my lifetime) but I realize many people could have legitimate reasons to vote for her.....but it is obvious she is profoundly anti transit (although she won't say it) and will place as many road blocks to transit spending as she can.

Originally Posted by csbvan

I would say more than anti-transit she is anti-Vancouver which is dangerous for our economy. Very unlike her predecessor in her anti-urban and anti-transit mentality.

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

....how about anti the poor (as seen in how she treated the K-12 public school education strike recently)!? That aside every educated first grader knows that inadequate transportation and congestion cripples the economy!

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I wouldn't say she is anti-transit as she did make the Evergreen Line possible. Nor would I say she is anti-Vancouver but it is Vancouver that is anti-Christy. Note that the Province is still committed to its share, so Vancouver simply has to pony up their share for the Broadway Line.

But she owes Vancouver nothing and as the saying goes, you reap what you sow. It would have helped if Vancouver-Point Grey wasn't so self centred and relied on the survey to vote for an NDP candidate to ensure they have an MLA in a sitting government. If they simply took a leap of faith, or better yet, realize that the BC NDP was a big mistake after Adrian Dix's infamous Kinder Morgan commentary, not only would they have had an MLA in a sitting government, but a Premier at that. Which should more than be enough to push for the Broadway Line, maybe even cancel the referendum altogether.

As for the economy, the BC economy as a whole still relies mostly on natural resources, which is mostly, if not all outside of the Metro Vancouver region. It will take a lot of really innovative companies enough to fill many tall office towers that will make BC not so reliant on wood and mining, but we are not even close to there yet even if every currently proposed office project is filled to the brim.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes, this. Literally seems to hate the economic heart of the province, while pushing remote, far off plans like LNG.

The fact we can't seem to lock down the type of person Christy Clark is, is exactly my problem with her.

I have no idea the kind of person Clark is. Even though Grodon Campbell was 2 faced, you knew exactly who those 2 faces were: with one he loved Vancouver and the Province and wanted great things for it (he built us a lot of stuff), the other he loved his friends and business supporters (he cut a lot of taxes making us take on debt for those things). With Glen Clark, everyone knew he loved his cronies and the public sector (and you loved him or hated him for that). Ujjal Dosanjh is a politician for the sake of being a politician and was lucky and was able to balanced the budget mostly to look good for his next gig in federal politics (he knew the NDP would be trounced and basically started campaigning for his MP job on day one). And Mike Harcourt didn't like Bill Vander Zalm as much as everyone else (and also hated "cheats and deadbeats"), and won by being more center right (even though he was NDP) than the super-right Socreds.

But Christy Clark, I have no idea. I came up with decent once sentence descriptions of past premiers, but with her, I have no idea how to describe her.

I don't think she is anti-transit, or anti-Vancouver, or anti-poor (at least not more anti-poor than the overall electorate in BC). I don't think she is pro-anything either. She just seems indifferent to everything.

She was out of politics and had an opportunity to get a pretty good job, one with lots of future potential. All she has to do is not completely screw it up, and she will be set for life. She can become an MP, a senator, or sit on a board of directors somewhere.

She got Evergreen off the ground and has set in motion GMT replacement (so not anti Vancouver or transit). She has promised money for the Broadway line, but isn't going to go out of her way and make it happen and have the province pay for the whole thing, because I feel she doesn't want brash spending decisions to be on her resume when she applies for her future jobs. No emotion one way or the other, she is just looking out for number one (herself).

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It's worth remembering that there are knock-out panels and a roughed in station house at Cambie and Broadway in the Crossroads project. Whole Foods currently uses the station house as a storage room. I've seen photos and it's pretty surreal: roughed in elevator core, stairwell, and escalator right-of-way. They call it the 'subway room'. If and when the platforms are extended to 50 metres, I believe they will be able to do the connect to the knock-out panel of the Whole Foods subway room, but I'm not certain of this.

This is fascinating, thanks for letting us know! I'd love to see photos of the "subway room".

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

I have been asking real estate agents that I know and who work that area that same question.

It depends on where Translink is able to buy property.

The box will be either east of Granville or west of Granville. I have heard that Translink has acquired property on the north side of Broadway, somewhere east of the Memphis Blues.

On Oak street, Translink seems to have bought The Bank of NS building on the SW corner .

On Cambie, they already own the SE corner of Cambie and Broadway, so it is pretty sure that the box will be east of Cambie along either Broadway or 10th avenue.

I know that Translink has bought the Blockbusters property on the corner of Arbutus and Broadway.

No clue as to Burrard or Main street.

A few years ago I used to work at Kaplan in The Dick Building (3 floor late 20s decoish office block) at the corner of broadway and granville. The building has lost almost all interior details, minus a tiled and terrazzo central staircase with crumbling stained glass window. The rest of the windows had been replaced with cheap wood windows in the 90s and had deteriorated amazingly quickly with large rotten holes in the window frames and sills. Roof leaked too.

From the condition that Colliers purposely let the building deteriorate (they would not invest any money in repairs even after many attempts from my office manager to fix the windows and restore the huge neon sign at least to illumination (it used to spin too!) It seemed as if their intention is to redevelop and facadeify The Dick Building... it would make for a nice train station where Blenz and McDonald's is and use the old sign for the train as well as the office above.

As for the corner of Broadway and oak st I was pretty sure the new office building that will be constructed where the 80s strip mall (SE corner across oak from The Scotia Bank) will be accommodating a train station?


http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2012/07/development-buzz-broadway-and-oak-office-tower/

The render on the development website clearly shows a train station entrance, same with the vancitybuzz article from a few years back


http://www.broadwayandoak.com/
I actually noticed the 711 in the strip mall is empty now, maybe that office block will be under construction soon?

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I don't think that one is, but I was responding to the question of where one could be. With Burrard being so close to Granville and Arbutus, it seems like an unlikely prospect considering the additional cost.

I guess the rationale for picking Arbutus over Burrard is that Arbutus comes with a rail line running north south and then all the way east to Cambie.

I could see a LRT running from Cambie and 2nd to 49th, one day. The RofW is already there, certain veggie gardens to the contrary notwithstanding.

A cheap way to link the high density housing area of 41st and Blvd to the subway system (2 spots - Arbtus and Cambie/2nd) to the higher density areas from 4th avenue (north) to Main street.

When you add more interconnections, the value of the whole network goes up. (Bob Metcalfe rule extended to transport networks).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Thanks, I had noticed there was an empty and boarded-up 4 story office building on the north side of Broadway just west of Granville and thought maybe that was it.

That building is in the middle of the 1500 block. Not likely Translink wants to have a station entrance mid-block, instead of the usual corner location.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It's worth remembering that there are knock-out panels and a roughed in station house at Cambie and Broadway in the Crossroads project. Whole Foods currently uses the station house as a storage room. I've seen photos and it's pretty surreal: roughed in elevator core, stairwell, and escalator right-of-way. They call it the 'subway room'. If and when the platforms are extended to 50 metres, I believe they will be able to do the connect to the knock-out panel of the Whole Foods subway room, but I'm not certain of this.

The approved design for the office building that is planned for the SE corner of Broadway and Oak will have something similar to Crossroads: a roughed-in station house, with the grade-level portion being leased out as retail until the station is built. This station house could access a Broadway or 10th Avenue alignment.

The Pinnacle on Broadway building at Broadway and Maple/railway ROW at Arbutus was designed so that a station house could be built in the plaza area between the building and the railway ROW and there is clear access down below grade, though I'm not sure if that means a roughed-in station or just no structure/parking below grade, meaning that the station house would have to be excavated. This would only easily access a Broadway alignment.



As for Burrard and Broadway, I could see Translink buying the building at the SW corner of Broadway and Burrard, the one where the Spy Store has been forever. That would let them have flexibility for either a Broadway or 10th Avenue alignment. However, I know of no plans for a station at that location.

For Main and Broadway, I think that the best choice location would be the parking lot at the corner of Broadway and Main, however my money is on the Kingsgate Mall site. They could have a whole lot more space to work with by taking the Broadway & Kingsway corner and staging construction from the parking lot. That site is up for redevelopment in the coming years and an announcement of the Broadway Line could be what triggers the School Board to pull the trigger and proceed with parcelization and redevelopment.

The Crossroads pre-build for the future station anticipated that the future UBC Line Cambie station would be right beside their building under Broadway. If the UBC line runs under 10th ave instead, the space in Crossroads may never be used as it was intended.

As to the 50 metres extension you mention, I'm guessing you are are referring to the existing Canada Line station. Those platforms are already 50 meters long, with the north 10 meters or so walled off because the trains don't need that extra platform space for now. When the "C Car" is added to extend the trains, the platform is ready after the walls are knocked down to reveal the rest of the platform.

The connection between the stations (Canada Line - Broadway station and UBC Line - Cambie station) will have a corridor between the station mezzanines, so to change trains you would exit the train, go up to the station mezzanine, use the corridor connection to the other station mezzanine, and down to the platform to wait for the next train.

[Tetsuo]

Didn't Translink buy a building at Broadway and Cypress>?

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Didn't Translink buy a building at Broadway and Cypress>?

I heard as well that they did.

But ... and it is a big butt .... that corner is no good in any way for a station as it does not service Burrard and it does not service Arbutus (hwre I know they already have a site).

Translink does have a mandate to develop along the line and I suspect that the acquisition on Cypress is for real estate development, not a station.

[officedweller]

Could also be for tunnel ventilation.

[Klazu]

Justin Trudeau was today promising tens of billions of dollars to be spent in the next 10 years in infrastructure project and a lot of it going to fund transit projects. If that would happen, that could secure funding for Broadway Line and possible something else as well.

Anyone buying such promises?