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  #8661  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2015, 2:32 AM
Jimbo604 Jimbo604 is offline
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Okay you can stop watching the webcam 24-7 for activity now:

"The machine is still at Clarke and Seaview Drive undergoing planned maintenance but will be on the move again in mid to late August, Evergreen's executive project director Amanda Farrell told PoMo city councillors on Tuesday.

The next planned tool change for the machine's cutter head will be just south of Robinson Street in Coquitlam, with preparatory work already underway.

'That's the last major tool change before the breakthrough,' Farrell said."

Source: TriCityNews.com

Evergreen's tunnelling machine in Coquitlam after summer
http://www.tricitynews.com/news/evergree...er-summer-1.2017306#sthash.m3EzvJj9.dpuf

Also...
Evergreen line 70% done
http://www.thenownews.com/news/evergreen-line-70-done-port-moody-council-hears-1.2016847
     
     
  #8662  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2015, 2:41 AM
Meraki Meraki is offline
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
We have them on the Canada Line on 3 Road, which is even more interesting because of the involvement of ProTrans BC.
Gateway in Surrey they're attached to the guideway as well.
     
     
  #8663  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2015, 10:30 PM
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Goodness, but you do seem to have an axe to grind.
Actually, I don't have a "dog in that hunt" .. to use an expression I have heard often enough.

But .. I do so dislike obfuscation and dissemblance. This is a clear case of just that.

Perhaps I would be better off with a different attitude .. you know .. the kind where you sit under a tree and watch the coconuts fall down .. where everything is okay, even if it is not.

It will be a while before I get there, though.

This won't be the last time that people in positions of authority will not tell us the truth. That will continue to bug me, no matter what it is about.

My congrats to you on being sanguine.
     
     
  #8664  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2015, 11:29 PM
Sheba Sheba is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
Actually, I don't have a "dog in that hunt" .. to use an expression I have heard often enough.

But .. I do so dislike obfuscation and dissemblance. This is a clear case of just that.

Perhaps I would be better off with a different attitude .. you know .. the kind where you sit under a tree and watch the coconuts fall down .. where everything is okay, even if it is not.

It will be a while before I get there, though.

This won't be the last time that people in positions of authority will not tell us the truth. That will continue to bug me, no matter what it is about.

My congrats to you on being sanguine.
Or perhaps we understand "—". I tend to assume that things will take longer and cost more than planned. In this particular case that's what's happening with the tunnel - the rest of the line is moving along fine.
     
     
  #8665  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2015, 1:53 PM
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queetz@home queetz@home is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
Actually, I don't have a "dog in that hunt" .. to use an expression I have heard often enough.

But .. I do so dislike obfuscation and dissemblance. This is a clear case of just that.

Perhaps I would be better off with a different attitude .. you know .. the kind where you sit under a tree and watch the coconuts fall down .. where everything is okay, even if it is not.

It will be a while before I get there, though.

This won't be the last time that people in positions of authority will not tell us the truth. That will continue to bug me, no matter what it is about.

My congrats to you on being sanguine.
I'm not sure why you are being too critical of this slight delay. I've been in this forum since August 1999 and even back then, I've already been "obsessed" with this project when it was still part of the first phase of the "Broadway LRT". I guess after waiting for this Skytrain extension for this long, the mere fact that it started construction and the fact that trains have indeed been travelling beyond the "Lougheed hump" have been quite satisfying.

At the end of the day, this project is getting built after decades of never ending studies and being pass up by both the BC NDP and the BC Liberals. This should have been built years ago, but I'm glad it is finally happening. No one will take it away from us, and for the first time, the recent major setback to transit expansion has not been so painful (as compared to the delays from the 2004 to 2012 period due to the Province vs Mayors bickering).
     
     
  #8666  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2015, 6:35 PM
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Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
The Lords on high at Translink have sent out an email on the tunnel

1) In preparation for the arrival of the tunnel boring machine (TBM), crews are continuing to strengthen the soil below the roadway from the surface of Clarke Road just south of Robinson Street. In early August, crews will be shifting the construction site from the east side to the west side of the roadway
2) The subsurface ground improvement work will be ongoing until late summer. Crews are continuing to inject cement grout into the ground approximately 40 metres below the surface.
3) These lane closures will allow crews to continue injecting cement grout (jet grouting) from the surface to strengthen soils in front of the TBM to prepare for the required maintenance and cutterhead tool change this fall.


Okay ... do you read this the same way that I do. The maintenance on the TBM is NOT taking place now. It will only start once the grouting is finished by "late summer".

And who knows how long the maintenance will last?
They're working on the next grout box. You can see where they're drilling on surface.

They're probably still working on the TBM cutter head, but I doubt they're rushing because they can't finish tunnel off until the next maintenance safehaven is finished. TBMs can move pretty fast, so if the new grout box is the time limiting factor, then it makes sense to get everything done that they can now.
     
     
  #8667  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2015, 4:23 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Evergreen impacting SNC's bottom line

http://www.news1130.com/2015/08/06/sinkh...ion-takes-a-toll-on-snc-lavalin-profits/

I'm just glad this is impacting SNC and not the taxpayer.
     
     
  #8668  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 1:15 AM
Olden Retreiver Olden Retreiver is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
http://www.news1130.com/2015/08/06/sinkh...ion-takes-a-toll-on-snc-lavalin-profits/

I'm just glad this is impacting SNC and not the taxpayer.
What corners could they cut to make up some of the loss?
     
     
  #8669  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 1:20 AM
finalcoolman finalcoolman is offline
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What corners could they cut to make up some of the loss?
The tunnel separation wall
     
     
  #8670  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver View Post
What corners could they cut to make up some of the loss?
They could listen to RidgeRunner and just tunnel through the mountain, sinkholes be damned.
     
     
  #8671  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 9:35 AM
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queetz@home queetz@home is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
http://www.news1130.com/2015/08/06/sinkh...ion-takes-a-toll-on-snc-lavalin-profits/

I'm just glad this is impacting SNC and not the taxpayer.
Oh I'm sure SNC will easily make it up by charging at least $5.3 million extra on the Broadway Subway, paid for solely by COV property taxpayers...

The company did make a profit, and the "loss" is very minimal. SNC will be fine and dandy, with the Evergreen Line added to their portfolio of awesomeness...
     
     
  #8672  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 3:02 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by queetz@home View Post
Oh I'm sure SNC will easily make it up by charging at least $5.3 million extra on the Broadway Subway, paid for solely by COV property taxpayers...

The company did make a profit, and the "loss" is very minimal. SNC will be fine and dandy, with the Evergreen Line added to their portfolio of awesomeness...
I don't know why you insist on defending EGRT to the death. It's comical.

The fact that a huge company like SNC specifically mentioned the tunneling in their quarterly earnings call is telling.
     
     
  #8673  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 8:16 PM
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The fact that a huge company like SNC specifically mentioned the tunneling in their quarterly earnings call is telling.
i.e. that it's a big liability from an "extraordinary" (unanticipated) event.
     
     
  #8674  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2015, 10:46 PM
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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where do we go from here

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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
i.e. that it's a big liability from an "extraordinary" (unanticipated) event.
Well, someone told the truth. I guess SNC Lavelin had to declare the issue in their statements since they are a public company and their accountants just would not stomach any lies.

Now .. I did not catch the date of the statements, but I know that there is a lag time after the official date of the statement so the accountants can do their work.

What I mean is ... if the statements are dated May 31 and the accountants made the company disclose the screw up as of that date, then the screw up had to have been known as at May 31.

But no one said a word. Not the Polis, not Translink, not SNC, not EGRT when they all knew or ought to have known that there was a real problem.

One or more of them manipulated the news to the public.

We would not have heard a word, except for the accountants who made SNC disclose it as a material fact. Not disclosing it would have meant that the accountants would not have signed off on their statements and SNC would have gone offside on the public company side of their business.

So finally, kicking and screaming, we hear the truth. Someone finally had to admit, for whatever reason, that the smell was not roses.

So where do we got from here?

My prediction - look for the line to open in late winter, early spring of 2017. February or March 2017.

That is 18 months from now. Most of the line is already built and being tested, in parts, for use.

Most of it will be built by spring 2016 at the latest. but they can't even test the line from the tunnel to Coquitlam because ... how do they get the trains on the other side of the tunnel.

I know, I know, I am obsessed.

I also know when something smells really bad and I just don't accept people's opinions that horseshit can be a "rose by another name."

Feb or March 2017.
     
     
  #8675  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 12:36 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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When there's risk involved, sh!t happens.

It's not as bad as Bertha in Seattle, the Capilano-Seymour water tunnel, or Edmonton's LRT extension delays

..and ultimately, there's no Olympic-sized event that the opening is critically timed to serve.
If that were the case, then there would be more to worry about.

Remember, the southern part of the Canada Line tunnel was cut and covered to better ensure compliance with the critical timelines (reflecting the time and risk of boring)
     
     
  #8676  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 12:58 AM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post


So where do we got from here?

My prediction - look for the line to open in late winter, early spring of 2017. February or March 2017.

That is 18 months from now. Most of the line is already built and being tested, in parts, for use.

Most of it will be built by spring 2016 at the latest. but they can't even test the line from the tunnel to Coquitlam because ... how do they get the trains on the other side of the tunnel.

I know, I know, I am obsessed.

I also know when something smells really bad and I just don't accept people's opinions that horseshit can be a "rose by another name."

Feb or March 2017.
You do realize that they can put the trains on the track at the Vehicle storage facility right? They can also put them on the track anywhere.... The catch is the where are they going to be powered? If that part isn't completed yet, then the trains can't run. Likewise the train controls would need to go over another communication link while the tunnel is incomplete. Nobody out there says they can NOT operate the trains without the tunnel, just it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put them in revenue service without the tunnel since it would involve keeping a redundant bus bridge in service to bypass the tunnel.

SNC could just be reporting that they have incurred extra costs on this contract due to all the grouting work that they did not anticipate having to do. What is the alternative? Full steam ahead and damn the consequences when the road collapses? Have the salmon-bearing creeks damaged from water ingress into the tunnel?
     
     
  #8677  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 2:29 AM
Olden Retreiver Olden Retreiver is offline
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Originally Posted by Kisai View Post
.
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SNC could just be reporting that they have incurred extra costs on this contract due to all the grouting work that they did not anticipate having to do.
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What do you mean by "all the grouting work that they did not anticipate having to do"??? Why did they not anticipate it? The requirements are spelled out in black and white on pages 26 to 29 of the Baseline Georechnical Report:

http://docs.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/D2732...2014-00090.PDF

The questions remain: Did they do the necessary groundwork prior to TBM maintenance stops at Chateau Place and at Cecile Drive? And why were the initial preparations at Seaview so obviously inadequate?
     
     
  #8678  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 3:37 AM
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Because knowledge of the soil conditions isn't 100%.

When they bored the tunnel for Link in Seattle, they discovered void spaces well after the completion - when subsidence occurred at the surface.

March 4, 2008 - Link LRT TBM completes 2nd pass of Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://www.soundtransit.org/About-Sound-...es/News-release-archive/2ndTubeBreakthru

May 24, 2009 - 9th void discovered at Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://seattlepostglobe.org/2009/05/24/a...d-sound-transit-says-it-may-be-the-last/

March 11, 2010 - Sound Transit to do more drilling and filling of void spaces at Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news...filling-to-close-9-voids-in-beacon-hill/

There's unknown risk...
     
     
  #8679  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 3:54 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is online now
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Because knowledge of the soil conditions isn't 100%.

When they bored the tunnel for Link in Seattle, they discovered void spaces well after the completion - when subsidence occurred at the surface.

March 4, 2008 - Link LRT TBM completes 2nd pass of Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://www.soundtransit.org/About-Sound-...es/News-release-archive/2ndTubeBreakthru

May 24, 2009 - 9th void discovered at Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://seattlepostglobe.org/2009/05/24/a...d-sound-transit-says-it-may-be-the-last/

March 11, 2010 - Sound Transit to do more drilling and filling of void spaces at Beacon Hill Tunnel:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news...filling-to-close-9-voids-in-beacon-hill/

There's unknown risk...
Which to me indicates of a much-increased probability of that happening at the tunnel under the Burnaby mountain side flank. This is shaping up a tougher job than people had imagined.
     
     
  #8680  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2015, 1:04 PM
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Which to me indicates of a much-increased probability of that happening at the tunnel under the Burnaby mountain side flank. This is shaping up a tougher job than people had imagined.
Indeed. Its hilarious that people here whine and complain that SNC is doing a crappy job. Well do any of those whiners actually have experience managing a tunnel boring project anywhere in the world? Like seriously, this reeks desire for instant gratification. Whatever happened to facing tough challenges and can do attitude? SNC is faced with a problem and they are tackling it head on. Are they whining like cry babies now that their profits are being affected? I don't think so.

People really just need to chill. It will be done when its done, just like any project that is facing challenges. And when it is all said and done, I'm sure this will be a great Engineering Marvel story to be featured in the Discovery Channel one of these days.
     
     
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