Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[ssiguy]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WBC

Yes, well there are certain benefits to guillotining the heads off your leaders...The subsequent leaders work hard to appease the populous

Plus this makes some sense... If you really have to travel 2 or 3 zones you should really not be paying extra for the suffering. And this eliminates stupid situation where you pay 2 zone pass to travel a few blocks across the zone boundary (well at least on the bus).

In the long run it would be nice to have a distance based fares on the skytrain.

So you mean keep the zones? And don't do as the Parisans do, and make it equal for everyone in Ile de France and Paris. I prefer the French system myself.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

It takes 17min to take Canada Line downtown vs. 50min for the bus. Basically you pay $1.25 to save 33min of travel time. It really just come down to how much people value their time.

This is pretty much true everywhere. Express service cost more than slower local service.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

I knew you'd react with your usual good humour

[bardak]

deleted I should read the whole thread before I comment.

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

That must be a first as I have never seen a 351 articulate. In fact I didn't even think they were legal on freeways. I know they have been on the Ladner/Ferry route forever but I thought they got a waiver. Maybe I'm completely misinformed but I thought that there was a legality issue. This is why you never see commuter buses or heavily used short-haul Greyhound routes use them.

I must say I don't think they are a very good idea on the 351. When you leave SS Park n Ride, no one gets on or off until Bridgeport so the need for 3 side door isn't as great. Also they are not as comfortable as the highway buses.

I think Translink should follow GO in Toronto which now has a huge fleet of double-decker buses on their commuter routes. They are freeway compliant and are built for longer more comfortable commutes.

They should be illegal or freeways or hills. I recall the D40LF and D60LF being introduced to the 145 Production Way (SFU) route....lots of fried transmissions I imagine. A common thing during the summer was for the current gear to get stuck in the D60LF's transmission going down long hills and it would stall at the bottom as a result, along with a horrible burning smell.
Likewise, both the D40LF and D60LF would crawl up the hill, while the old D40's would rocket past them...even the MCI Classic would do the same as well.
Certainly not designed for anything other than mostly flat/slow speed city traffic.

[NewfBC]

The bigger winners here are the North Shore.. I wonder how much Sea Bus traffic will decline.

Ron.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The bigger winners here are the North Shore.. I wonder how much Sea Bus traffic will decline.

Ron.

I would say that the biggest winner is the North Shore. Unless you take the seabus it might as well be zone 1 now. South Delta is basically part of both zone 2 and 3 and South Surrey is in a similar situation. The northeast sector benefits a bit but most of that will be gone after the evergreen extension is finished.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by nname

It takes 17min to take Canada Line downtown vs. 50min for the bus. Basically you pay $1.25 to save 33min of travel time. It really just come down to how much people value their time.

This is pretty much true everywhere. Express service cost more than slower local service.

SkyTrain is also more reliable and less uncertain than the bus, and you don't have to transfer between buses to get from Bridgeport to downtown.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by zivan56

They should be illegal or freeways or hills. I recall the D40LF and D60LF being introduced to the 145 Production Way (SFU) route....lots of fried transmissions I imagine. A common thing during the summer was for the current gear to get stuck in the D60LF's transmission going down long hills and it would stall at the bottom as a result, along with a horrible burning smell.
Likewise, both the D40LF and D60LF would crawl up the hill, while the old D40's would rocket past them...even the MCI Classic would do the same as well.
Certainly not designed for anything other than mostly flat/slow speed city traffic.

Exactly - look at this D60 make its way up the mountain with ease lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw9-FTXL9nM&feature=watch_response

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by st7860

Exactly - look at this D60 make its way up the mountain with ease lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw9-FTXL9nM&feature=watch_response

This bus performance video would be even more interesting to watch had the bus been full of (heavy) passengers!

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by zivan56

They should be illegal or freeways or hills. I recall the D40LF and D60LF being introduced to the 145 Production Way (SFU) route....lots of fried transmissions I imagine. A common thing during the summer was for the current gear to get stuck in the D60LF's transmission going down long hills and it would stall at the bottom as a result, along with a horrible burning smell.
Likewise, both the D40LF and D60LF would crawl up the hill, while the old D40's would rocket past them...even the MCI Classic would do the same as well.
Certainly not designed for anything other than mostly flat/slow speed city traffic.

I did make a video a while back showing the 3 types of artics that do climb Burnaby Mountain ( D60LF, D60LFR, and DE60LFR ) and you can see which is the fastest and slowest while making the incline.

• Video Link

[ssiguy]

I still don't get why they are doing this?

I have yet to see any advantage of using the Compass card over a regular ticket/pass/transfer. It always seemed like a ridiculous waste of money but now it's become a pain in the ass too.

BTW, SkyTrain is NOT a premium or express service. You could certainly say the WCE is but not SkyTrain.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

SkyTrain is also more reliable and less uncertain than the bus, and you don't have to transfer between buses to get from Bridgeport to downtown.

Yes exactly . Both sky train lines are a high end stylish service with low headway and air conditioning

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I still don't get why they are doing this?

I have yet to see any advantage of using the Compass card over a regular ticket/pass/transfer. It always seemed like a ridiculous waste of money but now it's become a pain in the ass too.

Because the provincial government said so...

"The fare gates were imposed on TransLink by then Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon and [then Premier] Gordon Campbell and they did that through an unelected, unaccountable board that they also imposed on TransLink," said NDP TransLink critic George Heyman. "So that's where I lay the blame for the fare gates and the Compass Cards."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1886363/idle-s...mple-of-translink-ineptitude-by-critics/

[Spork]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I have yet to see any advantage of using the Compass card over a regular ticket/pass/transfer. It always seemed like a ridiculous waste of money but now it's become a pain in the ass too.

Benefits to You:
-Automatic top-up (no more trips to the store to get faresavers/passes or lost money if you forget to buy faresavers/passes)
-Less likely to lose faresavers

Benefits to You via Benefits to the System:
-More useful/financially efficient service via optimization by acquiring more data
-More service/slower rate of fare increases due to (assumed) decrease in fare evasion
-Eventual lower fares for short trips with distance-based fares

[ssiguy]

One thing Translink has done well is it's fare system.

On urbantoronto I often use Translink's fare system as a good example of fare integration which the GTA desperately needs as there are so many different agencies and fares you never know what you are going to be paying. Translink system is fair, easy, and logical and it's the last thing Translink should be screwing around with.

As far as this not getting your pass or tickets on time, well people have been doing it for over a century now so I think it's not a big deal.

[memememe76]

Benefits to You:
-Automatic top-up (no more trips to the store to get faresavers/passes or lost money if you forget to buy faresavers/passes)
-Less likely to lose faresavers

Why is one more likely to lose a faresaver than their Compass Card? Really, how hard is it go Safeway or 7-11 to get a bus pass?

Benefits to You via Benefits to the System:
-More useful/financially efficient service via optimization by acquiring more data
-More service/slower rate of fare increases due to (assumed) decrease in fare evasion
-Eventual lower fares for short trips with distance-based fares
Reply With Quote

We'll see about the first benefit. I also thought that the implementation and continued maintenance of the fairgates would cost more than any savings from fare evasion. And, lower fares? Maybe for Vancouverites. Don't see how this benefits people from Surrey and the Fraser Valley. Although this one-zoned bus trip is great for people in Surrey going to Richmond or vice versa (Yay!), but that has nothing to do with distance-based fares system. And it's temporary.

Is there an actual example of distance-based transit and people just LOVING it? I guess when I travel, I get a daily pass that allows me to go anywhere on transit as often as I want for a certain period of time. I think Seattle has something to do that effect with its light rail. And I find Seattle's entire transit system awful.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I also thought that the implementation and continued maintenance of the fairgates would cost more than any savings from fare evasion

Ever since the whole project started TransLink has said the faregates will cost more to maintain compared with losses to fare evasion.

The faregates were mandated by the BC Liberals, paid for in part from the federal Conservatives. Not to save money, but to stop the freeloading poors and homeless people from getting on SkyTrain.

They didn't care about the financials. They got to have photo ops pandering to their base that they're protecting you from "those people."

Here's the original press release: http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2009OTP0072-000798.htm

“We are working in partnership with the federal government and TransLink to improve safety, security and passenger convenience on SkyTrain and throughout the Lower Mainland’s transit system,” said Premier Campbell. “Everyone who chooses to use transit has the right to feel safe and secure. Faregates and Smartcards will help to create a safer environment for transit users and will be an efficient and effective way to reduce fare evasion.”

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by memememe76

Why is one more likely to lose a faresaver than their Compass Card? Really, how hard is it go Safeway or 7-11 to get a bus pass?



We'll see about the first benefit. I also thought that the implementation and continued maintenance of the fairgates would cost more than any savings from fare evasion. And, lower fares? Maybe for Vancouverites. Don't see how this benefits people from Surrey and the Fraser Valley. Although this one-zoned bus trip is great for people in Surrey going to Richmond or vice versa (Yay!), but that has nothing to do with distance-based fares system. And it's temporary.

Is there an actual example of distance-based transit and people just LOVING it? I guess when I travel, I get a daily pass that allows me to go anywhere on transit as often as I want for a certain period of time. I think Seattle has something to do that effect with its light rail. And I find Seattle's entire transit system awful.

It will cost more to operate because it has to be staffed. Period.