Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Unless LV and/or QC shit the bed at the last minute, they're both getting teams. It's pretty much anti-climactic. The only threat against QC was the bid competition, but since there was only 2 expansion bids placed - the NHL painted themselves into a corner and it's QC's team to lose at this point.

To tell you the truth I think they planned it this way. Seattle,kansas and the GTA may want a team but not at half a billion dollars. especially Seattle and GTA considering they need an arena which pushes that price up considerably. Kansas may have an arena but they don't have any realistic owner in general let alone one that is ready to shell out that kind of coin.

Their was 2 markets and 2 markets only that were ready and willing to put forth an expansion bid and the league new that and were only expecting the 2. This way they get to acquire a billion dollars in expansion fees and they still have 3 viable options for relocation if needed. (which also means relocation fees). It's just smart business.

The true winner from this will be Seattle. Because the league has a few more struggling teams and eventually those owners are gonna want to get out. And by then hopefully Seattle will have it's arena situation figured out and It's a no brainier from there. Seattle will be the Best choice and have really no competition and they will pay less than half of what Quebec city does so your potential ownership options also increases. The GTA team has a few problems #1 being the leafs passion out there. It will instantly become the most hated team in Toronto I really don't think a T.O 2.0 team will do good with both fans and cooperate support. #2 MLSE is going to do everything possible to stop it and I don't think they will wannabe involved.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Brace yourselves Quebec...This is obviously happening The NHL is clearly just making a scene. They have been so careful about getting anyone's hopes up for 15 years leading up to Winnipeg 2.0 right up to the day the jets were announced. They wouldn't be getting Quebec city hyped for no reason and being so public about it if they weren't sure this was gonna happen. Nordiques 2017. 32 team NHL. Seattle is next up for the yotes or panthers. Congrats in advance QC sorry I ever doubted you

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/805065

The article says ''work is well underway on the Vidéotron Centre..."

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The GTA team has a few problems #1 being the leafs passion out there. It will instantly become the most hated team in Toronto I really don't think a T.O 2.0 team will do good with both fans and cooperate support. #2 MLSE is going to do everything possible to stop it and I don't think they will wannabe involved.

No arena. No owner. Those are the only problems a theoretical 2nd GTA team has right now.

As for the comment about being "instantly the most hated team in Toronto", that's garbage.

The number of NHL teams that would be more hated in Toronto than an expansion/relocated GTA team = (Total number of other NHL teams)-1

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Horus

No arena. No owner. Those are the only problems a theoretical 2nd GTA team has right now.

I'd have a hard time believing that none of Toronto's members of the nine or ten digit net worth club wouldn't be willing to put their money into a Toronto NHL team... the experience of the LA Clippers reveals that a secondary team in a hot market can still be worth a fortune.

Just because no one has publicly stepped up to declare their interest doesn't mean there wouldn't be any takers.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd have a hard time believing that none of Toronto's members of the nine or ten digit net worth club wouldn't be willing to put their money into a Toronto NHL team... the experience of the LA Clippers reveals that a secondary team in a hot market can still be worth a fortune.

Just because no one has publicly stepped up to declare their interest doesn't mean there wouldn't be any takers.

I guess. fair enough maybe I'm jumping to conclusions on the GTA team situation.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I guess. fair enough maybe I'm jumping to conclusions on the GTA team situation.

I'm sure MLSE will do whatever it can to maintain its monopoly, but I don't think lack of potential ownership interest is the main obstacle to this one...

If TNSE could get Canada's richest billionaire to put his cash in a team in Winnipeg, I'm sure that someone will step up to put their cash into a team right in their own backyard.

[Coldrsx]

Nords!

[Biff]

I still have troubles seeing how Quebec City can make a NHL franchise work paying $650 million CAD just to get into the NHL and then afford the costs of setting up and operating the team. When Winnipeg did it they only paid $180 million and had an existing franchise (Moose) already staffed and running.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd have a hard time believing that none of Toronto's members of the nine or ten digit net worth club wouldn't be willing to put their money into a Toronto NHL team... the experience of the LA Clippers reveals that a secondary team in a hot market can still be worth a fortune.

Just because no one has publicly stepped up to declare their interest doesn't mean there wouldn't be any takers.

I agree completely. This is a classic chicken-and-egg situation. There is (presently) no prospective owner because there is no prospective team. Present a team, and there will be a line forming for prospective owners.

The current call for expansion interest is bogus. It's effectively a trap test to see if Vegas was serious and to see how desperate Quebec was. They floated out a ridiculously high expansion fee price as well as an equally ridiculously short bid preparation period to see if they could hook Vegas and Quebec and possibly anyone else with a ready-to-go building or plan. Both Quebec and Vegas took the bait, so now they've advanced to "Phase II", which is probably more about ensuring that the cheque will clear than anything else.

I would love to see another team in Quebec, but at $500M (US$!) to play, they're setting themselves up for a rough ride.

[Taeolas]

Phase II I suspect is a matter of Gary Bettman trying to get the billion dollars in 2 checks cleared, and the Vegas and QC owner groups trying to claw back as much of their respective 500 million bids through negotiations, deals, player picks and any other guarantees they can pull off.

[osmo]

Seattle has no stabel ownership group and until then will it then get a stabel arena proposal.

Toronto/GTA has MLSE that will block a 2nd team here as much as they can. The tea leaves say that the eventual split of the BELL/ROGERS fiasco will likely mean that one will get the new team and one will get the Leafs. But not as many places as as simple to build a new arena in. Markham is toast and you would think that Vaughn would be also because its York Reigon.

Kansas City, if it had a owner and wrote a cheque the NHL would likely prefer it due to confrence reasons and needing more Wesrtern teams.


But this is bad statagy by the NHL. You don't "expand" into good markets. You test the waters and take money from new places and then if htey flop you then move to a more sure place.

[king10]

^^^^

The nhl has a tendancy of expanding to less sure markets and staying there even after they flop.

There arent many more markets they can expand to that are "test" markets.

Hard to argue that expanding to vegas and qc at 500 mill a piece is bad business for the nhl. Maybe for the respective owners in those two cities yes.

[Acajack]

FYI the NHL has gone on the record publicly saying that the expansion team fee would be variable based on market potential. Vegas would get dinged for the 500M but Quebec City would be lower than that. Probably in the 300M range.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm sure MLSE will do whatever it can to maintain its monopoly, but I don't think lack of potential ownership interest is the main obstacle to this one...

If TNSE could get Canada's richest billionaire to put his cash in a team in Winnipeg, I'm sure that someone will step up to put their cash into a team right in their own backyard.

Oh gosh yeah I completely agree there would be people lined up to invest in that. I never said othwerwise

[Oilkountry]

and is 500M that bad? The dallas stars are the 15th most valuable NHL team at 420M 11 teams are worth over 500k. So you almost instantly recoup your costs in equity and anything you make at the seasons end is ROI. When/if you sell the team you get your original investment back.

According to forbes the Jets are already worth 358M 5 years later. So lets say Quebec pays 300M for an NHL team they basically gain 50Mish right off the hop in equity and the value of NHL clubs is constantly rising. I don't think 500M although a high number is that out of the question when you would be paying 500M for the Washington capitals today.

[Oilkountry]

Jets reported 1200 wait list seats available in MTS for this season. Oil prices are killin everyone. 920ish non renews

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Jets reported 1200 wait list seats available in MTS for this season. Oil prices are killin everyone. 920ish non renews

The honeymoon is not over, but the ticket frenzy has certainly died down.

The attrition levels would be worse if they had not structured it in such a way that really discourages people from jumping off the list... you pay a non-refundable $50 per seat to get on the list, and then $100 per account per season to remain on the list - the $100 gets credited to your account for when you actually do get tickets.

I'm at around 900 on the list, and I'll soon find out where I'll be for this year. I can tell you that if the waitlist cash was refundable, I'd be cashing out... but as it stands I'll probably stick around for the minimum ST commitment, go to some games and sell off the rest, and that will be all.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

The honeymoon is not over, but the ticket frenzy has certainly died down.

The attrition levels would be worse if they had not structured it in such a way that really discourages people from jumping off the list... you pay a non-refundable $50 per seat to get on the list, and then $100 per account per season to remain on the list - the $100 gets credited to your account for when you actually do get tickets.

I'm at around 900 on the list, and I'll soon find out where I'll be for this year. I can tell you that if the waitlist cash was refundable, I'd be cashing out... but as it stands I'll probably stick around for the minimum ST commitment, go to some games and sell off the rest, and that will be all.

U'll have tickets this season then. (at market value) Ill buy some of the season from you lol

http://jets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=776448&navid=DL|WPG|home

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

U'll have tickets this season then. Ill buy half the season from you lol

http://jets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=776448&navid=DL|WPG|home

Given that it's August, I would think that someone would have called me by now if I had a shot at getting tickets. I've been moving up about 100 spots a year, and I'm sure it'll be a few more this year because of the additional seats. But I'd be shocked if I cracked the 500 mark this year, nevermind actually getting tickets.

[tomthumb2]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/stadium+fare+changed+dramatically/11268906/story.html

My own personal rankings:
1) IGF Wpg: great atmosphere
2) THF Ham: the one side (w/press box) seems very nice anyway
3) TD Ott: ditto
4) BC Place: too big for CFL
5) Commonwealth Edm: ditto
6) Molson Mtl: great location but not very modern
7) Mosaic Sk: complete dump but atmosphere is great
8) Skydome Tor: Argos cant get out of there fast enough
9) McMahon: horrible game experience - way past its due date