Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It was nice getting to ride and record a video of R8065 on the 351 Crescent Beach this evening from Bridgeport Stn to White Rock Center. Riding an articulated bus on this route felt so much more different from riding the typical Orion V bus. I do hope in the long run, we can get to see more articulated buses popping up on these routes because routes such as the 351 and 601 could use some during the rush hour.



If any of you guys are interested on catching this bus, final trip will be the 23:50 departure from Bridgeport Stn on the 351 Crescent Beach.

http://tcomm.bustrainferry.com/mobile/bus/8065

That must be a first as I have never seen a 351 articulate. In fact I didn't even think they were legal on freeways. I know they have been on the Ladner/Ferry route forever but I thought they got a waiver. Maybe I'm completely misinformed but I thought that there was a legality issue. This is why you never see commuter buses or heavily used short-haul Greyhound routes use them.

I must say I don't think they are a very good idea on the 351. When you leave SS Park n Ride, no one gets on or off until Bridgeport so the need for 3 side door isn't as great. Also they are not as comfortable as the highway buses.

I think Translink should follow GO in Toronto which now has a huge fleet of double-decker buses on their commuter routes. They are freeway compliant and are built for longer more comfortable commutes.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

That must be a first as I have never seen a 351 articulate. In fact I didn't even think they were legal on freeways. I know they have been on the Ladner/Ferry route forever but I thought they got a waiver. Maybe I'm completely misinformed but I thought that there was a legality issue. This is why you never see commuter buses or heavily used short-haul Greyhound routes use them.

I must say I don't think they are a very good idea on the 351. When you leave SS Park n Ride, no one gets on or off until Bridgeport so the need for 3 side door isn't as great. Also they are not as comfortable as the highway buses.

I think Translink should follow GO in Toronto which now has a huge fleet of double-decker buses on their commuter routes. They are freeway compliant and are built for longer more comfortable commutes.

Actually, articulated buses have appeared on the 351 in the past. If I recall correctly, couple summers ago they had a bunch of unlisted articulated trips on the 351 due to the fireworks crowds, same goes with couple weeks ago at Bridgeport Stn and when I spotted R8067 on a unlisted 351 Bridgeport Stn. So I'm pretty sure their legal on those routes, heck theirs even a picture of R8058 on the 311 Scottsdale. But the reason why that bus was on that route was due to an MVA in the GMT and that backed up all the highway 99 bus routes.

Well the idea of the 3 doors were pretty convenient once we passed SS P&R and going down and along King George Blvd and 152nd St. Well R8065 was okay because it had the comfy cloth seats, unlike the regular vinyl seats on the D60LF's. I believe from 8057 - 8099, 8101 ( with exceptions with several due to refurbishment ) all got the cloth seats.

Well we'll have to wait and see what will go on the highway routes, once these Orion V's retire. I'm going to take a long shot, but I might see Translink go for regular urban buses with a suburban configuration, so with the comfy suburban seats seen on our Orion V's.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

Well we'll have to wait and see what will go on the highway routes, once these Orion V's retire. I'm going to take a long shot, but I might see Translink go for regular urban buses with a suburban configuration, so with the comfy suburban seats seen on our Orion V's.

Do you have any idea when they'll start replacing the Orions? I live in Ladner and therefore travel predominantly on the Orions and I hate them. Sure the seats are comfier, but I'm quite big and there is like half the leg room as there is on the New Flyers, and the seats are a fair bit narrower too.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Spork

Christy Clark moved Translink responsibility under Fassbender and the Ministry of Community, Sport, and Social Development.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Fas...ark+shuffles+cabinet/11254839/story.html

I agree with Fassbender being responsible for Translink, as he seems fairly forward-looking and rational. However, I'm not sure why she didn't just outright replace Todd Stone. He has been a flop for everything except $250k bike lanes in Prince George.

So Chrissy has determined that Translink has nothing to do with transportation, but instead - sports?

I guess she's seen the wrasslin' that happens when a full 99 Bline shows up during rush hour.

[logicbomb]

So I notice the day parking pass expires @ 2:00 am at Scott Road Stn. What happens if you miss the last skytrain and are forced to take a night bus? Would your car get towed? Seems awfully dumb that one cannot keep your car there until 4:30am.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Do you have any idea when they'll start replacing the Orions? I live in Ladner and therefore travel predominantly on the Orions and I hate them. Sure the seats are comfier, but I'm quite big and there is like half the leg room as there is on the New Flyers, and the seats are a fair bit narrower too.

I'm not really sure actually :/ These buses are from 2001, so they've still got a lot of good use left in them. The average age of bus retirement for Translink is about 17 years or 1 million KM, so maybe around 2019 - 2020ish ? I'm not 100% sure since we've still got a bunch of 1996 D40LF's still operating at 19 years of age, heck we still got one 1995 D40LF still operarting ( R7115 ) at age 20. But from what I'm aware of is that some of the 1998 D40LF's have been retired ( S7281, S7285, and S7297 ) and the 1998 D60LF's are due to go at the end of this year and replaced sometime early next year.

So to answer your question, maybe around anywhere between 2019 - 2020

Yea, the leg room on those buses are really tight as I tend to use up two seats when riding them.

For me personally, this is how I want the replacement buses to be like. I'll be using OCTA ( Orange County Transportation Authority ) buses in my example. As you can see it's a regular urban bus from the outside



But in the inside, it got the suburban configuration.





- Photo credits go to LBT 9415

[groovyg]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A bike would probably be a good solution for this.

Yes, that would be totally logical - but I'm old and clumsy! Thanks to all for their input

[ssiguy]

Whether by bus or train, Vancouver has to start accepting what it refuses to in order to bring up ridership................Vancouver sprawls.

I know that's not politically palatable and certainly is refuted by Price and company who see nothing wrong with anything Vancouver does but those childish ideas fly in the face of reality.

The AGR is dying a not-so-slow death by a thousand cuts. This is not the case in Richmond or Delta but it certainly is further into the valley. The valley is becoming one big blob of suburbia and this will continue as the population grows and middle/working class families are forced further into the fare reaching suburbs to find affordable accommodation.

Vancouver is unique in how it is laid out. It's basically a cone shape starting at the small downtown and growing ever larger the further you go out. That can make for expensive transit due to unusually long commutes but is ideal for commuter buses and suburban/commuter rail.

Surrey's LRT idea is a stupid waste of money and will solve little and certainly won't reduce commute times one bit. Vancouver must rethink it's transit plans {except for Broadway} and totally embrace commuter/suburban rail to serve it's ever growing suburbs.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

So Chrissy has determined that Translink has nothing to do with transportation, but instead - sports?

I guess she's seen the wrasslin' that happens when a full 99 Bline shows up during rush hour.

It makes sense given that public transit is a political football around these parts.

[Tfreder]

I definitely agree with you ssiguy, heavy rail/commuter rail would be a great option for transit expansion here in Vancouver. I love our skytrain system, but it's just too expensive to build it for longer distances. A train with enough stations placed modestly apart can be a great way of being an urban transit system while still being built long enough to service the sprawling suburbs. A good (imo) example of this is the GO train in Toronto.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone really wants to pursue heavy-rail transit. Just look at the WCE; it's been 20 years and it hasn't seen any real service improvements. For comparison, Toronto's 7(!) commuter rail lines are planned to transition into having 2-way, all day, 15min peak/30min off-peak service by 2024.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

I definitely agree with you ssiguy, heavy rail/commuter rail would be a great option for transit expansion here in Vancouver. I love our skytrain system, but it's just too expensive to build it for longer distances. A train with enough stations placed modestly apart can be a great way of being an urban transit system while still being built long enough to service the sprawling suburbs. A good (imo) example of this is the GO train in Toronto.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone really wants to pursue heavy-rail transit. Just look at the WCE; it's been 20 years and it hasn't seen any real service improvements. For comparison, Toronto's 7(!) commuter rail lines are planned to transition into having 2-way, all day, 15min peak/30min off-peak service by 2024.

What rail lines are we to use. The CP line to waterfront is already congested an I doubt that CP are happy that they agreed to let the west coast express run as it is. I doubt that they will let any more passenger trains on the line. The grandview cut which would parallel the current Millennium line and stop just short of downtown Providing little added service to north of the fraser. The Grandview cut is also regularly used.

That just leaves Arbutus and I can see a few routes that to and New West and South Delta/South Surrey/Langley but past that the old interurban line has a very meandering routing to Abbotsford that may not be suitable for conventional services. Also there is no good connection to downtown on the arbutus line. you would need to make a new tunnel into downtown.

Unlike Toronto there are a lot of suburban areas that came into being without any influence of the railways where as most of Toronto's suburbs started off of a railway before the second world war.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

I'm not really sure actually :/ These buses are from 2001, so they've still got a lot of good use left in them. The average age of bus retirement for Translink is about 17 years or 1 million KM, so maybe around 2019 - 2020ish ? I'm not 100% sure since we've still got a bunch of 1996 D40LF's still operating at 19 years of age, heck we still got one 1995 D40LF still operarting ( R7115 ) at age 20. But from what I'm aware of is that some of the 1998 D40LF's have been retired ( S7281, S7285, and S7297 ) and the 1998 D60LF's are due to go at the end of this year and replaced sometime early next year.

So to answer your question, maybe around anywhere between 2019 - 2020

Yea, the leg room on those buses are really tight as I tend to use up two seats when riding them.

For me personally, this is how I want the replacement buses to be like. I'll be using OCTA ( Orange County Transportation Authority ) buses in my example. As you can see it's a regular urban bus from the outside

But in the inside, it got the suburban configuration.

- Photo credits go to LBT 9415

Thanks for the information! Yeah those LA buses look pretty good, but it does look like they seat many fewer people than the current Orions do. I guess we'll see what happens in the coming years, but hopefully I'll be out of Ladner by then

[go_leafs_go02]

After such a hot summer, I also hope TransLink looks at having air conditioning in their units. BC Transit has AC on their buses, the community shuttles have A/C, but the conventional ones do not.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

After such a hot summer, I also hope TransLink looks at having air conditioning in their units. BC Transit has AC on their buses, the community shuttles have A/C, but the conventional ones do not.

Well all their newer ones do. It's really just gonna be a matter of phasing out the older ones because I'm sure any new buses they order will have air conditioning.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Well all their newer ones do. It's really just gonna be a matter of phasing out the older ones because I'm sure any new buses they order will have air conditioning.

They do? I know the Highway coaches do, and being in Surrey/Langley, I never really ride on buses North of the Fraser, but there isn't a single conventional bus out of the Surrey Transit Centre that has air conditioning in them. The newest bus I believe in Surrey is also getting closer to 10 years in age too.

That's good news overall. And yes, you appear right, that all bus orders since 2013 have requested air conditioning on them.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

They do? I know the Highway coaches do, and being in Surrey/Langley, I never really ride on buses North of the Fraser, but there isn't a single conventional bus out of the Surrey Transit Centre that has air conditioning in them. The newest bus I believe in Surrey is also getting closer to 10 years in age too.

That's good news overall. And yes, you appear right, that all bus orders since 2013 have requested air conditioning on them.

I don't know much about buses in Surrey. The only newer bus I can think of that TransLink runs in Surrey is the 640, which is a New Flyer and has air conditioning. I'm pretty sure the newer New Flyers and Nova Buses both have air conditioning:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TransLink-B9605.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Newflyer-p3340.jpg

[WarrenC12]

I can't believe the new trolleys don't have A/C. Brutal.

[madog222]

Only the newest New Flyers, XD40 and XDE60, have a/c.

[WarrenC12]

We need a transit app that includes which buses have AC on them, live updated with GPS location.

[nname]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We need a transit app that includes which buses have AC on them, live updated with GPS location.

Only need to look at the bus numbers in any existing apps.

Any bus/shuttle within these range would have AC:
- Any shuttle (Sxxx or 1xxx series) after and including S382/1382
- The Orion Highway coaches in the 92xx series
- New buses/shuttle with 5 digit numbers (S13/113xx, 12xxx, 14xxx)
- New West Van buses (12xx/812xx)


Personally, now I'm only take bus that are either 60ft or have a/c. I would wait or choose alternate route if it doesn't