DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[BG918]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Eh, I think it may have merit. Not sure how much can be gleaned on a Sunday.

Another consideration might be to pair 16th Street with 15th Street which would eliminate half the challenge of 15th Street. One part being the uber expense in maintaining/repairing the pavers in the bus lanes.

I've long thought get rid of the pavers and run a streetcar down 15th & 16th in a couplet to connect to Civic Center (and eventually streetcar lines on Lincoln/Broadway and/or Colfax). This would be part of a larger streetscape improvement along those streets through downtown especially 15th, similar to the improvements finished a few years ago on 14th (trees, planters, lighting, sidewalks, bike lanes, signage)

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

It's the most asinine logic that being applied to the issues on the 16th St Mall- moving the buses off the Mall will magically improve the shopping options with numerous new retail options popping up because buses inhibit retail while bikes create retail (according to some undergrad's bullshit study on bikes on Larimer Street compared to Brighton Blvd). At least that's what I've gathered.

What's wrong with that? There certainly aren't any other differences between Larimer Square and Brighton blvd besides bicycle density!

[balugajames]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Are you seriously kidding me with this??? Look at yourself in the mirror? Maybe you should look in the mirror. Look I'm really sorry, but we are nowhere close to being NYC with subways and alternate means of transportation. We are NOWHERE close to being a Paris or London and even those cities are jammed with cars. Do you even drive these stretches of roadway? Colorado Blvd? 40th St? Monaco? Dahlia? Holly? Have you been on I-70 through that stretch that you think should be ignored??? Oh wait, maybe you work from home so you don't have to deal with any of that. Or you ride your shiny bike everywhere. Well not everyone can do what you do. Some of us do have to own the horrible sin of a motor vehicle.

All this money you're thinking of saving will have to all be used to improve every single damn side street through that entire stretch of North East Denver. You're not saving anybody any clean air friend by letting cars idle at stop lights that are not timed and synchronized. And if you do actually drive around the metro area there are plenty of corridors where the lights are not timed effectively to allow good flow of traffic so cars sit and pollute. OMG this whole mentality about how evil the car is-I get it, I really do. I know it destroyed downtown Denver and many other downtowns across this country. I know we hate suburbs and we hate suburbanites with their 3.5 kiddies and SUVs and Vans. But the reality of it all is that these people exist and pay taxes and maybe...just maybe...they don't want to live downtown.

So all you're going to do my friend is move traffic into neighborhoods that don't want to see traffic in their neighborhoods...the increased noise, the increased pollution--yes just shift it to the neighborhoods that we havent cared about for years anyway.

You want to force the carless mentality down the throats of Denverites....fine. I know it will have to be done eventually, but until we have a meaningful intra- and intercity streetcar system that truly connect us to our retail and commercial destinations then I'm sorry like it's been said before you will need to pry my hands off my steering wheel.

I-70 needs to be fixed. Once that's out of the way then 270 perhaps? I dont know. The state has big plans for lots of highway upgrades. I don't think we need NEW additional highways, I just think we need to improve what we have and lets get behind the city of Denver to push out some type of screetcar system. I would certainly vote to raise my taxes to do that!

And by the way, it's MOOT point not mute.

Well I guess I am prying!

I don't think there is anything reckless with maximizing efficiencies on your assets. I drive that corridor quite often, my wife daily. So believe me I understand what is involved and the number of users.

Your correct in that removing the freeway does not magically fix everything (clear air, etc). However a lot of your 'not everyone can do' attitude is based on prior bad decisions such as this viaduct. So when do we decide to 'fix' the decision? Or do we just perpetuate them because we don't like change?

Continuing this decision isn't going to help us in ever reaching the goal where 'everyone can'.. Which was the point of my 'look in the mirror' comment. More like a, if you could imagine a great place, what would it be? What should we be striving to create and where should our money go?

Should a billion go into building the freeway bigger/better or finding alternatives to that freeway? What is our end goal, faster commute times or a better city environment? Take your pick, I pick environment. I am pretty sure I am loosing so be happy for yourself ;-)

I am just saying. The schools our kids go to can't afford new chairs and desks, we don't have money to fund sidwalks and yet we are going to spend a billion on this couple mile stretch of freeway? A billion could do a hell of lot more.

I did mean MOOT. Thanks.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I'm not sure that environmental groups are all that sophisticated...

I think generally they have less power than they once had. While it can run the gamut, they are often a constructive voice on many issues that "need" to move forward. I'm thinking of the new coal facility in Pueblo or Denver's Waters need for more storage as examples.

That's a pretty reasonable view of the legislative process and something that I can agree with: people involved in the legislative process understand the consequences of proposed actions, but no one cares.

What bunt overlooks is how creative the field of litigation is. One would need child-like vision to foresee the interesting court cases that may come up and the resulting unintended consequences... despite the best of minds and efforts.

An observation that lends credence to Churchill's saying on democracy.

[bunt_q]

Ha we spend a lot of time thinking about what creative approaches somebody might take in litigation. I am sure we miss some, but I would also think those are the least likely approaches to win. That's the glory of a common law system and case law, change is incremental, and rarely happens in big leaps.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Most tech people I know are dumb as posts with anything but narrow technical stuff - they're used to linear thinking. If there's anybody who can't predict even second order effects, it's them.

Why do so many attorneys react to criticism by immediately painting the opposition as ignorant and bumbling? It might be great to convince a judge or jurors that you are the more knowledgeable party, but it really makes you seem like a jerk to everyone else.

Yes, it's true that most people in scientific or technical fields have narrow focuses, but so do attorneys. I am not going to ask a $1000/hr water rights attorney about copyright law. I'm sure these ubermenschen attorneys predicting nth-order legislative effects probably wouldn't be the best resource for complex estate law.

And all this BS about whether or not changing massing laws is valid or whatever caused this latest bit of useless back and forth completely buried this:

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=62decc2bcdb733506edccb754&id=11343d1462

Which I hadn't even heard about, and while it might not be condos, it is much better than the parking lot that currently fills the site.

Also, did anyone else notice that the parking lot at 9th & Grant across from the old DPS HQ is up for sale?

[Dogpatch]

Great aerials, Lumos. Some really interesting perspectives. It's pretty amazing what's happening at Union Station.
Thank you for posting!!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

Cosmo Kramer's homeless rickshaws?

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=62decc2bcdb733506edccb754&id=11343d1462

This is very nice. While it may have limited impact it will have meaningful impact.

Originally Posted by BG918

I've long thought get rid of the pavers and run a streetcar down 15th & 16th in a couplet to connect to Civic Center (and eventually streetcar lines on Lincoln/Broadway and/or Colfax). This would be part of a larger streetscape improvement along those streets through downtown especially 15th, similar to the improvements finished a few years ago on 14th (trees, planters, lighting, sidewalks, bike lanes, signage)

E x c e l l e n t

thinking which leads me to suggest that giving all the convention goers better access from Union Station to their hotels should be a big plus also.

[TakeFive]

If you have a couple of these in your back yard or patio you've made a good investment.

Photograph: Graham Turner Graham Turner/Guardian

If you've got a couple of these in your back yard it's a stinky investment.

Photo: Reto Fetz/flickr via The Takeaway

Crude prices have been going down, down of late. The whole energy complex is setting new lows. What's worse is that the bottom may still be a year out. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see some big blocks of office space given up.

Most all commodities have been drifting lower. Most industrial metals have been setting multi-year lows.

Also interesting is that the Mexican peso has been losing value against the Chinese yuan. This is making manufacturing more attractive in both the U.S. and Mexico. Oftentimes parts and pieces can be sourced in both countries.

Interesting times we're living in.

[lumos]

Looks like it will be jackable, only putting up as tall as 6 floors at the moment.

(Sorry about the large photos yesterday, I forgot to resize)

[Stonemans_rowJ]

[rds70]

Another tower crane going up, this time at Eviva Cherokee.

That's three in one week.

[seventwenty]

Parks being fenced off are always an interesting topic: Denver's Commons Park is filled with transients and pot smoking. Now the city wants fixes.

Originally Posted by Denver Post

The signature hill in downtown Denver's Commons Park was flush with small American flags on the evening of Sept. 11, 2001. But 14 years later, it's often been littered with marijuana smokers and transients. Now it's even referred to as Stoner Hill on Google Maps.

The hill and the area surrounding it have been fenced off by Denver Parks and Recreation since April; the department is now trying to engage residents who live near the park on how to make improvements.

"This is the first opportunity since the park opened to come together to talk about the park," Denver Parks and Rec project manager Mark Bernstein said. "Once a park hits 15 years old, it becomes tired."

Residents in the Riverfront Park neighborhood have complained about park users, ranging from homeless people spilling over from the 16th Street Mall to a younger transient population that came to Colorado for legalized marijuana. Residents have cited people forming trails through the grassy areas, trash and the general feeling of not being safe as the biggest issues.

[comoneymaker]

This is off topic but I just saw Comcast is now building a 1100+ footer tower in Philly when not to long ago they built their 975 footer. I can't even image what if that piece of Sh#t company still had their HQ here.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209240

I will take some satisfaction knowing it is ugly though.

[Cirrus]

Philadelphia had such a perfectly balanced, beautiful skyline before Comcast started building. One Liberty Place is probably my favorite skyscraper of the Post Modern era. So much more elegant than Comcast's grey glass boxes.


Photo by Duncan Pearson

Yeah yeah, tall buildings are cool, more downtown jobs is a good thing, overall it's a net win for them. I'm not saying I'd go NIMBY over it. But aesthetically, Philadelphia's skyline was better before.

[comoneymaker]

I can agree with that. Cirrus. It is in my top 5. . My first is a tie between Bank of America in Charlotte and the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis.


Also I forget who has the drone but think we could get another shot like this one?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Yeah yeah, tall buildings are cool, more downtown jobs is a good thing, overall it's a net win for them. I'm not saying I'd go NIMBY over it. But aesthetically, Philadelphia's skyline was better before.

This seems like the perfect time to say the only thing that is, according to Denverites, appropriate. Wouldn't matter if it was a 5-story sandstone box, rather than a glassy a 1,000-footer - IT'S BETTER THAN A PARKING LOT. Yay Philly, you're the best!

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This seems like the perfect time to say the only thing that is, according to Denverites, appropriate. Wouldn't matter if it was a 5-story sandstone box, rather than a glassy a 1,000-footer - IT'S BETTER THAN A PARKING LOT. Yay Philly, you're the best!

11>2>0.

11 is what you want. 2 is what we are getting now. 0 is parking lots. Make fun of those of us who say that all you want but that being better than a parking lot is true.

Except for Comcast, that company's continued existence is worse overall for any city's well being and having a giant reminder of it being headquartered in your city probably reflects more bad than good in Philly. All they need to do to perfect the image they need to is another building just to the right so that the spire on the new building looks like the giant middle finger comcast actually extends to all who deal with it.

OH and the building is ugly. Real cities like Austin, Portland, San Diego, Dallas uhm... Cheyenne maybe? wouldn't assault their valiant citizens' eyes with such a horrible abomination the way Philadelphia is about to do to their poor poor residents. May god have mercy on every one who has to ever experience any part of their life accompanied by the view of this architectural massacre. - (but it's still better than a parking lot)

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This seems like the perfect time to say the only thing that is, according to Denverites, appropriate. Wouldn't matter if it was a 5-story sandstone box, rather than a glassy a 1,000-footer - IT'S BETTER THAN A PARKING LOT. Yay Philly, you're the best!

Also 5am Bunt??? Doesn't the ambient THC in Denver keep everyone asleep to reasonable hours?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Also 5am Bunt??? Doesn't the ambient THC in Denver keep everyone asleep to reasonable hours?

Big city-killing road projects don't build themselves. Satan needs minions.