Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm getting into Zwei territory here but implementing at grade rail transit along highways would be very inexpensive compared to Skytrain.

The ignorant part of Malcom's statements are clouded because he hates the Skytrain and dismisses anything that isn't a tram to Chilliwack.

If something gets built, it has to eliminate all the in-city grade crossings to justify it being run at grade, which as stated elsewhere, once you start doing that, you may as well elevate or bury the entire ROW inside the city.

[GlassCity]

I've thought about building it along a freeway too, and I think it could work to Abbotsford and Chilliwack, though they already have a rail right-of-way anyway. The problem is with connecting it to Vancouver. The current right of way through Vancouver misses a lot of SkyTrain connections and is in general far from urban centres. Only solution I can think of is a massive CrossRail type of line, but there is no way that would be feasible.

For the time being, I think SkyTrain is doing fine, and even if it takes 59 minutes to go from Langley to Waterfront, that's basically the same as a car. If we're worried about connecting the Valley, I think commuter buses like the FVX and maybe a Fraser Highway one too are sufficient for now. If we're worried about Expo Line capacity, then that's a valid conern and we do need to start planning for it as soon as possible, because it will creep up on us. An S-Bahn system running parallel to it connecting only the major stations would be awesome, but we run into the problem of where to put it. Whether it starts at Waterfront and phases outbound, or starts in the Valley and is gradually phased further and further inbound depending on our needs, it will be very expensive.

As far as South Delta goes, I don't think commuter rail will ever be needed. Buses serve us more than adequately right now, I'm not sure if there is in fact room for tracks, and good luck getting heavy rail past all the nimbys here.

[Sheba]

What about commuter rails lines with their own tracks roughly along:

1) from Mission to Coquitlam Center, mirroring the WCE, so that they can have all day service instead of just rush hour service. That would replace that section of the WCE - we'll have to wait until after Evergreen Line opens to see how much demand there is for the rest of the WCE.

2) the Trans Canada Hwy from Chilliwack to Abbotsford and then up to at least 104th and 160th St (E Guildford Park & Ride), or if money isn't an issue, across the Fraser to Lougheed Station. Only the last little bit (to get it from the Trans Canada to the station) would need to be underground.

3) either an alternate or spur line. Trans Canada to Abbotsford and then Fraser Hwy to Langley, to Hwy 10 across Delta and then either the 91 or 99 through Richmond to at least where they meet at No 5 Road. Depending on space and ground conditions, over to Bridgeport Station.

Not everyone needs to go into Vancouver - and tunnelling to add more rail lines is way more than we can afford. Just getting people from the valley into the lower mainland without their cars will be impressive.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

We will likely never see commuter rail in the Valley in our lifetime. We don't have the infrastructure nor ROW to build it.

Toronto/Ontario were able to buy up the CP/CN abandoned spurs, yards and mainlines; some of which were used for passenger rail back in the day so they did go through other communities.

The big issue here is that any mainlines here are heavily used by CP and CN at all hours of the day and barely touch urban centers. With port expansions, it will cost even more to run any service on these lines.

None of the rail lines that CN sold to Metrolinx were abandoned. Some of them were not used as main freight routes and Metrolinx also built track parallel to the CN mainline from Pickering to Oshawa. The railine to Hamilton and Niagara Falls are a combination of CN,CP and Metrolinx. The Newmarket sub to Barrie was operated by a shortline but owned by CN until it was sold. CN's Bala sub through Richmond Hill is still the mainline between Toronto and Winnipeg. The route to Stouffville was not used much but still remained in CN's ownership until it was sold to Metrolinx.
All that is needed is for the Govt of BC to fund WCE so it can either buy or build its own trackage. Given the speed at which the province has extended funding to the Island Corridor on Vancouver Island it is unlikely you will see any money soon.

[ClaytonA]

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/pa...to-ramp-up-touristtrain-ridership--44150

April 2015

Passenger Rail Article
Lap of luxury: Rocky Mountaineer amps up lavish amenities to ramp up tourist-train ridership

Rocky Mountaineer is marking its silver anniversary in 2015. But the major accomplishment achieved over those 25 years — becoming the world’s largest privately owned luxury tourist train company — doesn’t resonate as much with the western Canada railroad as its more recent successes.

Annual ridership has risen by a double-digit percentage the past three years...

...operates along five scenic routes through British Columbia and Alberta between April and October.

...

Efforts to mold luxury services over the past 25 years have spurred Rocky Mountaineer officials to pursue their ultimate goal: to provide “the most spectacular and unforgettable travel experiences in the world,” according to the railroad’s website.

“We have a world-class product. This is all first class. Travelers and travel agents have voted us as the most luxurious train,” says Powell, referring to the railroad’s eight World Travel Awards, which are considered the “Academy Awards” of the tourism industry.

And Rocky Mountaineer aims to continue providing customers the lap of luxury to help foster business growth. Annual ridership already has ballooned from 7,000 in 1990 to 150,000 in 2014, ...

...

Rocky Mountaineer knows what it’s like to have promoters on its side. In 2010, when Vancouver hosted the Winter Olympics, many attendees rode the railroad’s trains as part of their trips, including journalists from abroad.

“We became more known to the world than before,” says Powell. “It was huge for our awareness.”

...

Two years ago, Rocky Mountaineer launched service to Seattle, expanding operations outside of Canada. There are other points in the United States that might be attractive to the railroad, as well, says Powell.

“We are now a North American experience,” he says. “There’s a good possibility we will expand from Seattle in the years to come.”

[go_leafs_go02]

I could never justify paying for any trip on the Rocky Mountaineer.

Was able to take the VIA Canadian in sleeper class from Toronto to Vancouver for two people last year for 1800 tax in (over 4 days)

Different class of service, but the food was fantastic, and the train was great. Didn't stop overnight, but that wasn't too big of a deal. Hope to do it again sometime down the road.

[officedweller]

Interesting article - mentions Light Rail too:

State finally getting satellite-based train controls, 20 years after fatal crash
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/tracking-washington-states-train-safety/

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I could never justify paying for any trip on the Rocky Mountaineer.

Was able to take the VIA Canadian in sleeper class from Toronto to Vancouver for two people last year for 1800 tax in (over 4 days)

Different class of service, but the food was fantastic, and the train was great. Didn't stop overnight, but that wasn't too big of a deal. Hope to do it again sometime down the road.

I've wanted to do the Vancouver – Jasper run for a while. What was it like crossing the prairies by train?

I looked into the Rocky Mountaineer before and to be honest, I was always a little incredulous at the price of the service. It ends up being $400–600/night/person. To see them continue to have this kind of growth is amazing.

[casper]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I've wanted to do the Vancouver – Jasper run for a while. What was it like crossing the prairies by train?

I looked into the Rocky Mountaineer before and to be honest, I was always a little incredulous at the price of the service. It ends up being $400–600/night/person. To see them continue to have this kind of growth is amazing.

If you hunt around on the Via Rail website you can sometimes get some good prices. If you get into the "Special prices area" the prices that show up can be better that the general search. It is weird. They also publish some discounted pricing only on Tuesday. In the past I have managed to do Saskatoon - Vancouver for 60-70% off regular.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I've wanted to do the Vancouver – Jasper run for a while. What was it like crossing the prairies by train?

I looked into the Rocky Mountaineer before and to be honest, I was always a little incredulous at the price of the service. It ends up being $400–600/night/person. To see them continue to have this kind of growth is amazing.

Prairies were fantastic. Actually my favourite part of the trip. Wide open skies, and a completely different feel.

The part along the Assiniboine River Valley is beautiful as well.

[ClaytonA]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Rail/railmonthlyupdate.htm

Discussion continues on pre-clearance agreement with Canada
Officials from Transport Canada met with Amtrak and WSDOT on July 22 to discuss a pre-clearance agreement between the United States and Canada. After touring the Pacific Central Station, Transport Canada officials acknowledged the station is ready for pre-clearance activities for travelers returning to the United States on Amtrak Cascades. Canadian Parliament and U.S. Congress must agree on the terms of administering pre-clearance before it can be offered at Pacific Central Station. Transport Canada suggested that, as the designated carrier, Amtrak begin drafting formal correspondence requesting pre-clearance, as required under the proposed agreement. WSDOT will officially request that Amtrak submit this letter on our behalf.

[usog]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Rail/railmonthlyupdate.htm

I thought there was already pre-clearance for the Amtrak Cascades?

[Spork]

Originally Posted by usog

I thought there was already pre-clearance for the Amtrak Cascades?

Nope. The train stops in Blaine and customs agents board the train to check everybody.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Spork

Nope. The train stops in Blaine and customs agents board the train to check everybody.

What's the point of the giant metal cage that they lock the train into when it's in Vancouver, then? I always assumed that it had something to do with not having to inspect the train when it crossed the border.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

What's the point of the giant metal cage that they lock the train into when it's in Vancouver, then? I always assumed that it had something to do with not having to inspect the train when it crossed the border.

Because the train doesn't stop at the border when heading northbound into Canada. The only reason it doesn't have to is because Pacific Central is the only stop after the border.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Because the train doesn't stop at the border when heading northbound into Canada. The only reason it doesn't have to is because Pacific Central is the only stop after the border.

So Canadian Customs clearance is done at Pacific Central, and the cage is their baby? I'm still not quite sure of the point of it.

[AverageJoe]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

So Canadian Customs clearance is done at Pacific Central, and the cage is their baby? I'm still not quite sure of the point of it.

As I understand it, the cage is to 1) separate passengers who have already been US-precleared to board US-bound trains, and 2) prevent passengers who haven't been Canadian-cleared to enter Canada.

US customs and immigration pre-clearance already exists in Pacific Central Station. It has for quite a few years, but it's not the full-meal deal. They have agents to give out declaration cards and do a primary inspection (at the booth) but lack a facility to do a secondary inspection (rip open your bags and interrogate you). This is why the train still stops at the Blaine border, so agents can come on board and collect the declaration cards and pull people off the train to get a secondary inspection.

I reckon that this new agreement is to expand US pre-clearance to the full-meal deal like the way it's done at YVR. You go through the booths, and you can get your bags ripped open and strip searched if need be. And there will no longer be a need to stop at Blaine except for hobo searches.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

As I understand it, the cage is to 1) separate passengers who have already been US-precleared to board US-bound trains, and 2) prevent passengers who haven't been Canadian-cleared to enter Canada.

OK, I guess that makes sense - thanks. I was starting to wonder if the US authorities wanted the train itself quarantined in case some planted something on it.

[Klazu]

Interesting idea on North Shore News opinions section. Could it be viable and connect West Vancouver, North Vancouver, Burnaby and ever further areas together? Have something like S-Bahn running on this travk every 30 minutes. Would be cool and would not require (much of) new tracks to be laid.

All aboard the North Shore Express train

My family moved to the North Shore from East Vancouver last summer.

The appeal of getting away from the constant craze of Vancouver and being closer to the serenity of mountains and forest are ultimately what brought us here. As it turns out, North Vancouver is the only Lower Mainland community ranked within the top ten places to live in Canada by MoneySense Magazine this January.

My wife grew up here and so the rapid development of the area along with increasing traffic congestion in recent years are especially salient to her.

Traffic congestion, she believes, is beginning to corrode the high quality of life familiar to North Shore residents.

I’m a veterinarian in my day job and an occasional writer by night. Although I have no training as an urban planner I am an ardent environmentalist and I support smart density type development such as that focused around major transit hubs. And while highrise and high density developments continue to pop up across the North Shore, Lonsdale Quay remains the only major public transit hub.

British Columbia’s proposed transit tax (which flopped miserably under a poorly conceived referendum) had some bold suggestions to improve mass transit. Surely, mass transit — giving people a viable alternative to commuting by personal vehicle — can provide a solution to our traffic dilemma.

However, the addition of a few B-line bus routes won’t suffice; we need a commuter train on the North Shore.

Envision the “North Shore Express” or the “NSE” — a commuter train beginning in Horseshoe Bay, running through the North Shore and ending in Vancouver.

Fortunately, the North Shore already has much of the infrastructure and right of ways in place. An operating railway currently runs past Horseshoe Bay (and only steps from the ferry terminal) all the way east to just past the Iron Worker’s Memorial Bridge.

Now close your eyes and join for a ride along the NSE … Thousands of daily B.C. ferry passengers now opt to travel as “walk- ons,” getting to and from Horseshoe Bay aboard the NSE. Passengers sit back and gaze out the windows during a glorious train ride running partly along the waterfront and part through the forested neighbourhoods of West Vancouver.

The line has just three brief stops on the North Shore, each at busy centres where droves of people get on and off the train in efficiency unmatched by other forms of transport. Twelve minutes along, the NSE announces to its passengers the Park Royal stop, the first stop along the line from Horseshoe Bay.

The train continues eastward for another six minutes passing under the Lion’s Gate Bridge, zipping by ship building yards and then the rail goes underground to arrive at Lonsdale Quay (under which the existing railway already bypasses via a tunnel).

Downtown destined passengers get off at the Quay to board the SeaBus. Again the NSE continues eastward, emerging from the tunnel to pass by grain silos and piles of coal, stopping this time four minutes later across from Park & Tilford mall.

Next, the NSE passes under the Ironworkers’ Bridge, turns south to take the train bridge (which already exists) across the second narrows, and continues southward for four kilometres on a newly constructed track suspended above the highway until the final stop intersecting with the (current) Millennium SkyTrain line. In about one half hour the NSE has covered its entire route, moving commuters from Horseshoe Bay through the North Shore and into Vancouver with SkyTrain connections to the rest of Metro Vancouver.

Perhaps I should stick to my day job, saving the world one cat neuter at a time. Yet, a commuter train might well be the ultimate solution to resolving our traffic congestion issues. Although traffic threatens our quality of life, the North Shore still remains one of the most naturally beautiful and best places to live in Canada.

At the very least, let this be a vision or perhaps a call to action towards developing a truly sustainable solution to our growing traffic pains and resultant traffic issues on the North Shore.

http://www.nsnews.com/opinion/other-voices-all-aboard-the-north-shore-express-train-1.2028101

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Interesting idea on North Shore News opinions section. Could it be viable and connect West Vancouver, North Vancouver, Burnaby and ever further areas together? Have something like S-Bahn running on this travk every 30 minutes. Would be cool and would not require (much of) new tracks to be laid.

That vision doesn't include the freight traffic that takes precedence on this track, and the delays caused by it, just like on the West Coast Express. It also doesn't include an answer to the crucial question: where is the money going to come from to build the stations and buy the trains?