Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL_J
You entirely missed the point of the conversation. A user was wondering why Atlanta wasn't seeing continued explosive multifamily growth as other cities. I commented noting Atlanta's unique situation as compared to those cities. No one implied that space was running out, that there wasn't any more developable sites, and that we needed to convert single family neighborhoods to higher density.
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Are you sure I missed the point? Also, your claim that Atlanta is not seeing the highrise multifamily boom that some other [MUCH DENSER] cities are seeing has *nothing* to do with lack of sites.
:::: Just some snippets for context. Again, my confusion may have been that someone was thinking of Seattle since Seattle has the same dynamic whereby it's mostly single family, even right near its core areas, and now it's very publicly looking into rezoning these "protected" and charming single family areas due to an actual approaching lack of space to build up and accommodate population growth. Seattle is one example of a much much denser city as it is seeing a larger and more prominent multi/high-rise multi boom than Atlanta. I'm really not sorry I brought it up as a relevant point of the conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
He means the single family home part of Midtown south of 10th and east of Piedmont. That would probably be a high density area especially with it's street grid and small street widths, but....it's protected because it's a historic area.
I think Home Park needs to be rebuilt with 6 story apartment buildings...I see nothing special about the neighborhood that warrants protecting it when it can be a high density neighborhood that has easy access to Atlantic Station, Midtown, and the Westside neigborhoods. In fact, right now, it's a high crime area.
Atlanta protects the single family home neighborhoods a little too much and in the end, it's going to drive neighborhood prices through the roof and make them very unaffordable because the limited amount of units in the city due to how much land single family homes actually take up compared to apartment blocks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaden
I wish I knew what you meant by "tear down Midtown" for high density infill. You are about 40 years too late for that because high density development spread to Midtown long ago. That's why all those high rise condos, high rise offices, and apartment complexes are there...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL_J
I guess I needed to be more specific, but yes, "Historic Midtown". The rich, single family neighborhoods on either side of Peachtree Street from Midtown to Buckhead, Ansley Park, & Historic Midtown limit the urban growth of Atlanta. I'm not implying this a good or bad thing, that is purely subjective, but I think it goes a long way in explaining Ant's initial question. These neighborhoods force dense development in a few nodes, driving up land prices, and limiting what is economically feasible on these sites. The places where there is a lot of available land for more urban growth all have their own challenges, so projects will need to be carefully vetted and thus won't come at such a rapid pace as the "easier" sites did.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testarossa50
Agree. Take a wrecking ball to Home Park--it contributes nothing to the city besides Antico Pizza and cheap apartments. Save the smattering of historic structures, redevelop the rest. No need to stop at 6 stories necessarily, though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon
Actually the portion of Home Park north of 14th has been improving lately. A lot of it is still iffy though. If zoning allows it those parts will probably be developed eventually but it will be awhile with the lack of transit and the number of vacant/underdeveloped lots on the other side of the Connector.
Piedmont Park and MARTA have probably defined Midtown's development patterns more than anything.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelJ
True, but even prior to that...commercial building encroached into residential areas just off Peachtree and completely altered the area. It's still happening on the edge of Historic Midtown along Piedmont. Not that it isn't a good thing, but it can happen so slowly that no one notices until the houses are gone.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000
Atlanta has 93K hotels rooms, therefore I believe your number for hotel rooms in Downtown Atlanta are wildly inaccurate. Also, Buckhead is only 4 to 7 miles from Midtown Atlanta with no geographical obstruction. Bellevue is 12 miles from Seattle across lake Washington. Therefore, if you include Buckhead in Atlanta's CBD, the numbers are not that different except for new office construction. Not to mention, our taller buildings are much taller than Seattle's.
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You seriously can no longer be taken seriously. There are so many fallacies with this post and such a lack of understanding on your part that it's barely worth a response.
METRO Atl has ~93K hotel rooms. Not downtown Atl, which you can look up, easily. It's about 12K hotel rooms in downtown, and the hotels are mainly convention hotels with 1,000+ rooms, so you can almost count on 2 hands the hotels in downtown Atlanta, and they add up to about 12K rooms.
Buckhead's office district is about 6 miles north of Midtown Atlanta separated by a number of leafy green residential neighborhoods of single family houses on large lots, so that makes it part of the CBD? Buckhead and Bellevue are really about as similar as two areas in different parts of the US get. And neither is "CBD", but nice try.
And regarding the taller buildings - Atlanta is by no means "much taller" than Seattle. Seattle has 4 buildings > 700 ft to Atlanta's 5, and Seattle has 8 buildings > 600 ft to Atlanta's 11. All of Seattle's tall buildings are within a half mile of each other in a denser structural format (and with floors that rise all the way to the top rather than partway up with a crown on top), which does a better job at creating illusion of height and drawing the eye upward. Seattle's tallest building has an observation deck at around 900 ft, about 150 ft higher up than the highest floor in Atlanta's tallest building, which achieves its height with a crown and 90 ft gold spire. Not to mention Atlanta's tallest are spread out between 3 CBDs miles apart, and its tallest is literally standing by itself surrounded by parking lots.
Not sorry for being an ass with this retort, and you forced me to go there. The height statement on your part *was* entirely irrelevant and clearly a jaded attempt at some dig on Seattle due to some huge inferiority complex you must have about your city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000
The most ominous statistic from your links above is ATL has 139 Million SQF of office space in our MSA and Seattle only has 56 Million SQF in their MSA. I would have never thought it was this substantial.....
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2 things:
1) The number for Seattle in the link I provided excludes a few key submarkets, such as Bellevue, which itself has about 8-9 million sf, slightly smaller than Buckhead but more or less similar.
In fact, the report below shows the downtown Seattle area as having 74 million sf of office space. The total Seattle metro as having over 180 million sf.
http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/pdf/PCD/Costar_Office_Market_Report_PugetSound.pdf
An apples to apples report would be Costar's for Atlanta:
http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/4q09_atlanta_office_costar.pdf
Shows 58 million sf between Downtown/Midtown, to Seattle's 75. Seattle is adding over 4 million sf while Atlanta has added none, well 400K with Ponce City Market, which is considered part of Midtown (all the way over to the Coke campus and West Midtown, which is just an absurd area covering lots of territory for a CBD).
So call it 79 to 58.5 million for "CBD". For the metros, it appears to be 274 million for Atlanta and 184 million for Seattle.
The other ratio to look at is population. Metro Atlanta has 5.6 million to Seattle's 3.7 million. So Atlanta's office ratio if it entirely depended on population alone should be 51% larger than Seattle's anyway. Atlanta is about 49% larger, so there you go. Seattle's office space appears to be normal for its population.
Also, another thing is the ratio of "downtown" to metro. For Atlanta it appears to be 21-29% depending on whether Buckhead is included in "CBD" or not. For Seattle it's about 41%. So Seattle is far more centralized and downtown-centric than Atlanta is, by a huge margin.
Anyway, I digress, I wouldn't throw around big numbers you don't have much of an understanding of.
I'm going to bow out. You guys again successfully turned a mere mention of another city, a mention that wasn't at all a "dig on Atlanta" but more of a relevant comparison concerning zoning, into a pissing match. You guys are a bunch of sorority sisters and you should be ashamed at your posting mannerisms. Not everyone is out to "get Atlanta"...it's really not on the mind. No agenda. No drama until you guys bring it. Why oh why is there this big of an inferiority complex?!?
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