Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[blueandgoldguy]

With regards to the new Calgary arena, the best they can hope for is public funding from the city. I'm sure there won't be any funding being provided by the province seeing as Edmonton didn't receive one cent from the province for new Rexall Place.

[esquire]

^ You would think that in a place like Calgary, a hockey team would be profitable enough so as not to require government funding for a new venue.

[king10]

Mosaic stadium actually has a capacity of 33,437. The new mosaic will be smaller at 33,000.

No need for a bigger stadium in calgary. 33,000 would be a solid number to drive up ticket demand. And when needed it can be expanded to 50,000 for major events as planned.

BC place and commonwealth reduced capacities with the new seats installed. THF and TD place were smaller than their predecessors. The argos are downsizing to bmo. Molson stadium just removed 2000 endzone seats. Such is the trend in the CFL, increase premium seating, reduce total seating to ramp up demand and ticket prices.

Winnipeg moving to the larger stadium was the exception.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ You would think that in a place like Calgary, a hockey team would be profitable enough so as not to require government funding for a new venue.

How so?

Please do provide some substance to your stance.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by speedog

How so?

Please do provide some substance to your stance.

Income-expenses=profit if the number is greater than zero, and loss if the number is below zero.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

Mosaic stadium actually has a capacity of 33,437. The new mosaic will be smaller at 33,000.

Mosaic has a permanent capacity of 28,800... the endzone seats are temporary stands that were always intended to be dismantled and moved away.

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Income-expenses=profit if the number is greater than zero, and loss if the number is below zero.

Haha, thanks for explaning it. But to add a bit to that, Calgary is a city with a large and relatively wealthy hockey fanbase. Plenty of takers for skyboxes and pricy seats, much like Toronto or Montreal. A team in a place like that probably makes a good amount of money and should not rely on the public pursestrings for handouts the way that smaller market teams tend to..

[Oilkountry]

I swear half this forum is full of realists and the other half are stuck in the past. I find the older guys would rather walk into a half empty big O than a full IGF. Stuck on this Idea that Canada should have 60k stadiums for the once a year they are gonna fill them. It's not the 70s/80s anymore people would rather stay at home and watch it in crystal clear HD for free. Why in gods name you would want Calgary to build a stadium bigger than what they draw for stamps games to serve the odd concert or soccer game is beyond me. Atmosphere isn't anything to some people they just wanna see big rows empty seats because "back in the day the place was rockin at a concert I went to back in the 70's"

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Trans Canada

That said, even today the Olympic Stadium could be the most iconic stadium in the world. I figure lose the roof, and just keep it from falling apart. Demolishing it would be huge architectural loss.

That would be the second best option after a retractable roof for sure. I could live with that view.

http://www.lapresse.ca/images/bizphotos/...pport-lavenir-baseball-majeur-canada.jpg

Originally Posted by speedog

I've been to all three stadiums; BC Place, the Skydome and the Big O; and the most impressive by far in the Big O. BC Place really isn't all that special IMHO, the Skydome is quite neat in the fact that it opens up but the Big O is a quite few steps up in how it impresses - one has to experience all three to compare and feel the difference.

For me aside from the size, which is impressive especially for Canadian standards, it's the atmosphere inside the stadium that is incredible. During the CCL final, Mexicans commentators were extremely impressed with the atmosphere and were definitely not expecting it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the Impact always scores early when they play at the big O.

I even read 1 American who was there for the US game writing to bring earplugs because it gets too loud.

And when 61,004 fans go crazy, this is what happens:
• Video Link

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

Mosaic has a permanent capacity of 28,800... the endzone seats are temporary stands that were always intended to be dismantled and moved away.



Haha, thanks for explaning it. But to add a bit to that, Calgary is a city with a large and relatively wealthy hockey fanbase. Plenty of takers for skyboxes and pricy seats, much like Toronto or Montreal. A team in a place like that probably makes a good amount of money and should not rely on the public pursestrings for handouts the way that smaller market teams tend to..

Yes, but they are downsizing. From current capacity at Taylor Field to future capacity at new Mosaic is decreasing. The "temporary" endzone seating and suites at Taylor will have been there for 4 seasons before the move to new Mosaic.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I swear half this forum is full of realists and the other half are stuck in the past. I find the older guys would rather walk into a half empty big O than a full IGF. Stuck on this Idea that Canada should have 60k stadiums for the once a year they are gonna fill them. It's not the 70s/80s anymore people would rather stay at home and watch it in crystal clear HD for free. Why in gods name you would want Calgary to build a stadium bigger than what they draw for stamps games to serve the odd concert or soccer game is beyond me. Atmosphere isn't anything to some people they just wanna see big rows empty seats because "back in the day the place was rockin at a concert I went to back in the 70's"

Lol. I dont always agree with you. But you hit the nail bang on with this post.

[king10]

Olympic stadium with no roof looks pretty cool. The tower looks impressive.

[eemy]

I actually like Olympic Stadium better without a roof tbh.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I actually like Olympic Stadium better without a roof tbh.

I doubt that many people would disagree. The roof is just a necessary evil that people put up with to have a facility that is (in theory, at least) usable in the winter.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by king10

Lol. I dont always agree with you. But you hit the nail bang on with this post.

I almost never agree with him and still don't

I'm the old guy who keeps posting the information on future stadium and fan retention practises (ie downsizing the number of seats, increasing party decks). I think it's the kids who keep posting things like TFC will be attracting 50K fans in the next few years.

[Coldrsx]

mine

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

I doubt that many people would disagree. The roof is just a necessary evil that people put up with to have a facility that is (in theory, at least) usable in the winter.

I disagree. I don't want that place sitting idle for one day in a year let alone four months.

"We can't use the playing field for four months of the year and the stadium's the only place in Montreal that can seat 22,000 (sic) ... we urgently need that new fixed roof that would enable us to double our revenue," she added. (Sylvie Bastien, OIB director of communications June 29/2010)

They can do it. Find some smart people and do it right and shut up the naysayers who contribute nothing. If there weren't so many people bitching over its history more people might have had the cajones to have proffered a solution by now.

Questions to ask: how big an issue are snow loads, because of the roof being stored in the tower is it still an issue to raise/lower the roof when the wind isn't that strong, is it time to look at a solid design like Francois Delaney's? How significant a change would modern technology bring to the original design?

This was supposed to have a new roof at least four (wait, it's longer than that) years ago.

[elly63]

Blast from the past

Olympic Stadium to get $300M roof
June 29, 2010

Quebec's Olympic Installations Board is moving ahead with a project to replace the decrepit roof covering Montreal's east-end stadium.

On Monday, the board filed a notice of intent to seek approval from Quebec's Liberal government to hire SNC-Lavalin for the $300-million job.

The new steel roof will be rigid, fixed, and more durable than the current retractable fibreglass membrane that rips frequently, requiring expensive repairs.

SNC-Lavalin submitted its bid on the Olympic Stadium roof job three years ago, after the OIB issued a tender request in 2005.

"We know that it's an excellent project that has passed all tests, all trials, analysis, etc..." affirmed Sylvie Bastien, communications director at the Olympic Stadium. "It's an excellent project."

The current retractable structure will be dismantled to make room for the new steel structure.

The project also includes major repairs and maintenance over the next 25 years.

The roof of the stadium known as the Big O is in such rough shape that Montreal's fire department threatened this year to shut the building completely.

The membrane has lost almost 50 per cent of its tear resistance and requires repairs as often as 50 times a year.

The membrane roof, installed by U.S. company Birdair in 1998, cannot handle snowfalls of more than eight centimetres.

City reacts to news

Montreal Mayor Gérald Tremblay said the project is encouraging, and that he would like to see the stadium fixed as soon as possible.

"We've been waiting for three years, so why can't we wait another month," said Tremblay. "The good news is that the Quebec government is willing to invest close to $300 million to enhance the value of that important asset for Montreal."

[elly63]

More history

SNC-Lavalin tackles Montreal’s Olympic Stadium roof project
Irwin Rapoport DailyCommercialNews.com Apr 17, 2006

Montreal-based SNC-Lavalin Inc. is now the sole firm in the process to design and build the roof for the city’s largest structure.

MONTREAL

Montreal-based SNC-Lavalin Inc. is now the sole firm in the process to design and build the roof for the city’s largest structure.

Four firms submitted applications following a January 2005 request for qualifications. Only two SNC-Lavalin and Janin-Atlas Inc. were found to have the financial and technical capabilities to complete the project.

Both firms were then asked in July to present the Regie des installations Olympiques (Olympic Installations Board) with preliminary technical proposals.

“Only SNC-Lavalin presented a concept,” said Sylvie Bastien, director of communications for the OIB. “Jamim Atlas withdrew. We want the builder of the roof to own it for 25 to 30 years, and therefore to finance it. We will rent the roof.

“At the end of the process, we knew there was only going to be one at the finish, (but) we are disappointed because we wanted competition.”

SNC Lavalin presented its concept last month.

“The firm needs to validate many things, do the calculations,” said Bastien. “The next step is a financial proposal. They will have to tell us what the price tag is.

“We need a new roof. The one we have doesn’t do the job and we cannot repair it.”

A key element for a winning design is to create a roof that does not require snow removal or heating in winter to melt the snow.

Bastien notes that SNC-Lavalin believes this is technically feasible. The firm has several months to come forward with a more detailed design.

“It’s not a simple roof,” said Bastien. “It’s something very complex on a complex building and it’s huge.”

The provincial government has not set any limits on the fee for the annual rent.

“(But) it doesn’t mean that it is unlimited,” said Bastien. “It is something that we need to discuss with SNC-Lavalin should the project be pursued. If it is too expensive, we might decide to stop the project. There is no obligation (on our part).”

SNC-Lavalin installed the first Kevlar roof and built the tower for the stadium, which was designed to hold the retractable roof (the first roof) — designs prepared by a French architect.

[esquire]

^ Pouring all that money into the roof in 1987 and 1998 didn't work, so why not pour even more money into the roof a third time and hope that it works this time?

Who will be using the stadium in the winter months? There are no sports leagues that play then and winter stadium concert tours are very rare, so the Big O is basically down to competing with convention venues for boat and RV shows. Let's face it, the Big O is beautiful but the roof contraption is a dud and hardly worth it for a venue that doesn't have any actual full time tenants... at least with BC Place you could rationalize a new roof on the basis that it houses two sports teams.

[elly63]

And more history

New roof for Montreal’s Big O?
Canadian Consulting Engineer May 17, 2009

Plans are in store to give Montreal's infamous Olympic Stadium a new roof that will cost between $75 and $100 million

Plans are in store to give Montreal’s infamous Olympic Stadium a new roof that will cost between $75 and $100 million.

The Montreal Installations Board has approved a design by SNC-Lavalin for a steel roof and submitted plans to the province. Because the new roof would be heavier than the present fabric roof, the supporting concrete tower and support structure would likely also have to be upgraded. SNC-Lavalin submitted its proposal following a call for proposals in 2008, but the Quebec government has to give its approval.

Built for the 1976 Olympics, the massive Olympic Park stadium has been plagued by problems from the start. Its Kevlar roof was not completed until 10 years after the Olympic Games. In 1991 a block of concrete weighing 55 tonnes fell off a support beam. In 1999, another section of the roof collapsed.

Nicknamed the “Big Owe” because of the huge debt incurred to build it and the other Olympic structures, the 58,000-seat stadium became home to the Montreal Expos baseball team until the team was sold to Washington, D.C.

The stadium roof’s support tower is still the world’s tallest inclined structure at 175 metres. Roger Taillibert of France was the architect.