Nelson on the Park | Concept/Proposal

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

You'll have to fill me in on what's 'pathetic' about it. A relatively highly densely populated neighbourhood that is somewhat quiet, peaceful, has lush greenery, and surrounded parks and beaches, and all the amenities of the city. How is that pathetic? If you get all that and it doesn't feel like it's very densely populated, it sounds more like a job well done.

Oh just relax. It's just a personal preference. I personally don't like what you like. I want it more vibrant and busy and see more people on the streets. I feel that the density could easily be greater. Frankly I think the area could handle it.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You know that the West End has been one of the densest areas in North America, if not the world, for decades, right?

I know. I lived in the West End for years. My "it's about time" comment was more about replacing a lot of those three story apartments that are woefully underusing space that could go for higher densities in a city plagued with land and pricing issues.

And without going too much in to the "West End is the most superlative" narrative, yeah, the West End does well in comparison to other neighbourhoods in NA, but it's density is barely a blip on the radar when compared to cities in countries like China, Brazil, India, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Indonesia etc.

Even cities like Seattle are really going to give the West End a run for its money in the future. The amount of density added north of the CBD is pretty impressive.

Downtown Arrival by Ian Brooke, on Flickr

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Oh just relax. It's just a personal preference. I personally don't like what you like. I want it more vibrant and busy and see more people on the streets. I feel that the density could easily be greater. Frankly I think the area could handle it.

I assume when you talk about seeing more people on the streets, you're referring to commercial streets in the West End such as Denman or Davie? Even in densely populated residential neighborhoods in cities such as Hong Kong, you're not necessarily going to see a huge number of people walking around in the streets.

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

I'm sorry but as someone who lives in the west end I just don't see it. I could be walking down any given street. I could look down both ways as far as I can see and maybe spot 3-5 other ppl. Its pathetic.

It's an antisocial city; people here don't go out. Mind you, when the biggest draws in West End are Davie and Denman streets (i.e., strip malls), I don't blame them.

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

A friend lives in one of those buildings on that site and all the rents are ending in December!!! Looks like they will be clearing them down shortly afterwards. Like old like the tenants knew already these building were getting demolished

I feel badly for the long-time residents who will be forced to find somewhere else to live.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by EdinVan

I feel badly for the long-time residents who will be forced to find somewhere else to live.

Sure it's no fun to have to move. Although they seem to have been given a good amount of notice

[PopYourColla]

Wow! I really hope this goes through. I can see that rooftop pool being used in quite a few future movie shoots. Being built on high ground will make it look so much taller than it actually is. I also love how the old building on the corner is staying.

[s211]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Here are the facts, Vancouver based on 2011 census:

All of Downtown:
Population
• Total 54,690
• Density 11,577/km2 (29,983/sq mi)

West End:
Population
• Total 44,560
• Density 21,833/km2 (56,548/sq mi)

The West End has been that size and density since the 80s. (I think we can all agree on the lack of development in the area)

Manhattan:
Population (2010)
• Total 1,585,873
• Density 26,833/km2

Populations are obviously far different.

Try doing some research before insulting others.

You took my response as an insult, so be it. It wasn't an insult directed at you. It's reality. Just because people like to manipulate statistics to make a point doesn't make their point valid.

Maybe if people didn't try comparing an arbitrary, small neighbourhood boundary in Vanouver with what what appears to be the entire island of Manhattan, then we'd stop the baffling comparison of a watermelon pit with the watermelon itself.

Every city has its pockets of density, and all people appear to be doing is comparing one pocket of Vancouver with much larger jurisdictions.

I wish I could find a picture of that one city in South America that has high-rises as far as the eye can see. One look at that and it's case solved.

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by s211

I wish I could find a picture of that one city in South America that has high-rises as far as the eye can see. One look at that and it's case solved.

This one? its Sao Paulo


Source: http://www.denmarkbrazil.com/wp-cont.../sao-paulo.jpg

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Here are the facts, Vancouver based on 2011 census:

All of Downtown:
Population
• Total 54,690
• Density 11,577/km2 (29,983/sq mi)

West End:
Population
• Total 44,560
• Density 21,833/km2 (56,548/sq mi)

The West End has been that size and density since the 80s. (I think we can all agree on the lack of development in the area)

Manhattan:
Population (2010)
• Total 1,585,873
• Density 26,833/km2

Populations are obviously far different.

Try doing some research before insulting others.

You can't use those stats. You need stats that show residential lots/land area numbers. If you do that, downtown/Yaletown will be way higher. When you say "all of downtown", it includes, shops, malls, office towers, hotels, convention centres, parks, etc. When you refer to West End, except for the arterial streets, it is purely residential. So your stats unfairly states that West End has a higher population/square km. The area is also getting really old with run-down apartment buildings, and they do need to go.

Therefore it still stands that the West End needs a lot more redevelopment and this proposal is just awesome.

[s211]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

This one? its Sao Paulo


Source: http://www.denmarkbrazil.com/wp-cont.../sao-paulo.jpg

Thanks! I'm not up on my South American cities.

Now, we can put this "West End densest place on earth" claim to rest.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

You took my response as an insult, so be it. It wasn't an insult directed at you. It's reality. Just because people like to manipulate statistics to make a point doesn't make their point valid.

High rises don't necessarily equal density. It's been proven time and time again. Sorry your world-view doesn't align with reality.

[Klazu]

With West End it is amazing how dense it is and yet it is one of the greenest places in Vancouver! That's pretty amazing if you ask me.



By the way, imagine this tower going up in this view. It will be almost to the top of this photo!!

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by Klazu

With West End it is amazing how dense it is and yet it is one of the greenest places in Vancouver! That's pretty amazing if you ask me.



By the way, imagine this tower going up in this view. It will be almost to the top of this photo!!

Wow, Klazu. Beautiful! The tower would be a great addition to the west end.

If I had big bucks, I would pay big bucks for your whole digital photo collection.

[Klazu]

Haha, thanks! It's only a little over 86 000 files. What's stopping you?

[GMasterAres]

West End = 2 km squared
Manhatten = 22.8 km squared

Basically Manhatten = 10 West Ends size wise and still has a higher density

I'd agree with the above poster that says you really need to compare apples to apples and not just pick out a "pocket" in Vancouver to compare to a massive city and say "LOOK SEE WE ARE SUPER DENSE."

The West End is a fairly dense neighborhood compared to many other neighborhoods in North America I will grant that to people, but it really can't be compared to areas in many other cities.

Now compare Sapopemba in Sao Paulo (a neighborhood in the South American city sited above). 13.4 km 2 so still much larger than the West End and has a population density of 21,076/km2.

But again we can't really just slice things arbitrarily or I could just say "St. James Town" in Toronto or "Church and Wellesley" in Toronto which are 2 "neighborhoods" like the West End. SJT = 0.23 km2 but has a population desntiy of 63,765/km2 and C&W is closer in size to the west end @ 0.55 km2 with a density of 37,239/km2.

So I think Myth Busted?

Anyone have a height on this tower? Just eye balling it I'd say we'd be looking at around 65 rough floor heights (including bottom and top) x 3m avg per floor = 195 meters? That would put this in the 600+ category around 640 feet give or take.

[s211]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

High rises don't necessarily equal density. It's been proven time and time again. Sorry your world-view doesn't align with reality.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by s211

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

WarrenC12 is absolutely correct on this.

[logan5]

The census tracts that include the downtown peninsula and the densest parts of the Broadway corridor/False Creek add up to 160 000 people over 5.2 sq miles. Its a contiguous area of 31 000 people per sq mile. Pretty goof size for a na city.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jhausner

West End = 2 km squared
Manhatten = 22.8 km squared

Basically Manhatten = 10 West Ends size wise and still has a higher density

I'd agree with the above poster that says you really need to compare apples to apples and not just pick out a "pocket" in Vancouver to compare to a massive city and say "LOOK SEE WE ARE SUPER DENSE."

The West End is a fairly dense neighborhood compared to many other neighborhoods in North America I will grant that to people, but it really can't be compared to areas in many other cities.

Now compare Sapopemba in Sao Paulo (a neighborhood in the South American city sited above). 13.4 km 2 so still much larger than the West End and has a population density of 21,076/km2.

But again we can't really just slice things arbitrarily or I could just say "St. James Town" in Toronto or "Church and Wellesley" in Toronto which are 2 "neighborhoods" like the West End. SJT = 0.23 km2 but has a population desntiy of 63,765/km2 and C&W is closer in size to the west end @ 0.55 km2 with a density of 37,239/km2.

The west end is 2 sq kms, so not quite apples to apples. Toronto downtown area of 5 sq miles has a density of 35 000 per sq mile compared to 31 000 per sq mile for the same area around dt vancouver.