O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Since fewer buses would be needed at that stage, maybe Pinecrest Garage could be reconstructed as a rail facility?

The sounds like a fantastic idea! But I doubt it, because they would just try to replace that with another garage...

[JCL]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

The sounds like a fantastic idea! But I doubt it, because they would just try to replace that with another garage...

The idea of closing down Pinecrest Garage has been floated around before because of limitation of how they can operate (i.e. people living nearby and don't like noise). I highly doubt that the Pinecrest Garage site would be considered as a second rail yard location.

[waterloowarrior]

Reports to FEDCO
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/item.aspx?itemid=333027

[1overcosc]

Interesting... they're going to be providing a fare-paid transfer area at Westboro station. Somewhat surprising, there's not a huge volume of bus transfers there. Nonetheless useful.

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.stage2lrt.ca/

[rocketphish]

Full-steam ahead for city's LRT expansion plans

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 22, 2015, Last Updated: June 22, 2015 8:53 PM EDT

The city’s finance committee will be asked to approve spending $7 million more to develop the second phase of light rail now that an environmental assessment has confirmed the ambitious plan is viable, even though other levels of government have not officially approved funding the project yet.

The detailed report also finds a rail link to Ottawa’s international airport is technically possible, but there’s no clear plan yet on who would pay for the $155-million project.

The city wants to complete the Stage 2 project by 2023, which means preparatory work must continue this year and next. The finance committee will be asked on Monday to approve the transfer of $7 million in existing available transit capital budget funds from a park and ride account to the Stage 2 LRT project account.

The second phase of the city’s light rail plan, approved in 2013, includes three rail extensions that build on the Trillium O-Train line and the new Confederation line, currently under construction.

• To the south, the Trillium line would extend from Greenboro station to Riverside South (Bowesville Road), including the possibility of an airport link.
• To the west, the Confederation line would extend from Tunney’s Pasture station to Baseline and Bayshore stations.
• To the east, the Confederation line would extend from Blair to Place d’Orléans station, and perhaps even further east to Trim Road.

The $3-billion plan would add 30 km of track and 19 new stations in the east, west and south.

That figure does not include either the $155-million airport link or the $160-million extension to Trim Road because both were added to the study after the city approved in 2013 how much it could afford.

A trio of environmental assessments confirms the routes and stations for each of the proposed extensions, including the description of the station’s physical footprint, ridership capacity, cycling and pedestrian connections, and potential environmental impacts and mitigation needed for each.

The plan crystallizes an agreement reached earlier this year between the city and the National Capital Commission on the jointly-developed solution for the portion of the route between Dominion and Cleary stations, which would run under rebuilt and realigned lanes of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway.

Bayshore station, which would become the western terminus, would have public washrooms, as would Baseline and Place d’Orléans stations.

The airport link would have two stops: one adjacent to the EY Centre on Uplands Drive and another located between the airport terminal and parking garage, at the top level of the parking garage.

Property requirements are a key component of the plan and city staff need direction from council to begin the real estate transaction process to ensure land can be secured. The city needs to buy or expropriate about 45 parcels of private and public land along the route, the report says.

Paying for the second phase of light rail is possible if the two senior levels of government each chip in one-third of the costs, the province adopts changes to development charges in relation to transit, and transit fares and transit taxes continue to be aligned to the rate of inflation affecting transit costs, the report says.

[email protected]
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/full-steam-ahead-for-citys-lrt-expansion-plans

[ACmodels]

Fast track to Kanata
City looks into building LRT to Kanata link before 2031

Kanata Kourier-Standard
By Adam Kveton
2015-06-29

The city is looking into having light rail transit to Kanata before 2031 after a motion tabled by Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley passed at finance and economic development committee on June 29.

The motion asks city staff to come back with a report to determine the cost, possible routes and if the extension could be ready before 2031.

Currently the city has no start date for a light rail transit link to Kanata, though the connection is part of its ultimate rapid transit plan.

The light rail transit connection to Bayshore is expected to be ready by 2023, while Kanata would see a bus rapid transit corridor created to a station at Terry Fox Drive and north to Solandt Road by 2031.

Under those rough timelines, a light rail connection to Kanata would happen sometime after 2031 – past the city’s planning horizon.

“I’m asking if (city staff) can do the review and see if we can bring it forward quite a bit,” said Hubley.

City staff has been asked to come back with a report on the feasibility of doing that, though Hubley said he is confident it can be done.

“I don’t want to pre-suppose too much of the study, but from what I’ve been working on with staff, it looks like we could certainly move the date ahead quite a bit and re-use stuff that’s been done in the interim to move the busses faster,” he said.

If so, many in Kanata and the rest of the city’s west end would likely be excited by the news, as Kanata’s long wait for light rail transit has been a controversial issue, becoming one of the chief points of debate during last year’s municipal election in the Kanata North ward.

The motion received plenty of support at committee, with Bay Ward Coun. Mark Taylor saying, “I think the faster, the bigger we can build the system, the better.”

Orléans Coun. Bob Monette also voiced support, saying, “As we’re moving forward we’re looking at the whole city, not just parts of the city. I’m very encouraged by the motions that have been put forward.”

Kanata North Coun. Marianne Wilkinson encouraged the city to look at growth in the west end, especially when it comes to the Kanata business park, which, she said, “is reaching an all-time high and there’s a lot of optimism with what’s been happening with the tech industry.”

Hubley said “other envelopes of funding” would be needed to pay for the early rail extension, likely through federal and provincial governments.

Thus far, the city has bankrolled more than a third of its $2.1-billion light rail project, paying $900 million, with the province and feds each picked up $600 million.

However, both provincial and federal governments have recently announced funds to support major transit infrastructure projects. That prompted Mayor Jim Watson to say, “From our perspective – I can’t speak for other cities – the timing works well in Ottawa’s favour.”

Hubley added he believes there are efficiencies the city can find in the rail installation process that will save money, and that a Kanata connection could be far less costly than other parts of the city as there would be less need for tunneling or overpasses.

“If the report comes in good and the funding comes together, maybe I will get to ride a train before I’m done my job,” said Hubley.

“Up until my motion, we weren’t even going to be looking into this until 2031,” he said. “Now we could be riding a train in 2031.”



Earlier O-Train extension pondered

Another motion, tabled by Knoxdale-Merivale Coun. Keith Egli and carried by the committee, asks the city to fast track the O-Train Trillium line extension and see it done earlier than 2023. The plan for the line has new stations at South Keys, the Ottawa International Airport, Leitrim Road and Bowesville.


http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/5701044-fast-track-to-kanata/

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by ACmodels

Fast track to Kanata
City looks into building LRT to Kanata link before 2031

Kanata Kourier-Standard
By Adam Kveton
2015-06-29

The city is looking into having light rail transit to Kanata before 2031 after a motion tabled by Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley passed at finance and economic development committee on June 29.

The motion asks city staff to come back with a report to determine the cost, possible routes and if the extension could be ready before 2031.

Currently the city has no start date for a light rail transit link to Kanata, though the connection is part of its ultimate rapid transit plan.

The light rail transit connection to Bayshore is expected to be ready by 2023, while Kanata would see a bus rapid transit corridor created to a station at Terry Fox Drive and north to Solandt Road by 2031.

Under those rough timelines, a light rail connection to Kanata would happen sometime after 2031 – past the city’s planning horizon.

“I’m asking if (city staff) can do the review and see if we can bring it forward quite a bit,” said Hubley.

City staff has been asked to come back with a report on the feasibility of doing that, though Hubley said he is confident it can be done.

“I don’t want to pre-suppose too much of the study, but from what I’ve been working on with staff, it looks like we could certainly move the date ahead quite a bit and re-use stuff that’s been done in the interim to move the busses faster,” he said.

If so, many in Kanata and the rest of the city’s west end would likely be excited by the news, as Kanata’s long wait for light rail transit has been a controversial issue, becoming one of the chief points of debate during last year’s municipal election in the Kanata North ward.

The motion received plenty of support at committee, with Bay Ward Coun. Mark Taylor saying, “I think the faster, the bigger we can build the system, the better.”

Orléans Coun. Bob Monette also voiced support, saying, “As we’re moving forward we’re looking at the whole city, not just parts of the city. I’m very encouraged by the motions that have been put forward.”

Kanata North Coun. Marianne Wilkinson encouraged the city to look at growth in the west end, especially when it comes to the Kanata business park, which, she said, “is reaching an all-time high and there’s a lot of optimism with what’s been happening with the tech industry.”

Hubley said “other envelopes of funding” would be needed to pay for the early rail extension, likely through federal and provincial governments.

Thus far, the city has bankrolled more than a third of its $2.1-billion light rail project, paying $900 million, with the province and feds each picked up $600 million.

However, both provincial and federal governments have recently announced funds to support major transit infrastructure projects. That prompted Mayor Jim Watson to say, “From our perspective – I can’t speak for other cities – the timing works well in Ottawa’s favour.”

Hubley added he believes there are efficiencies the city can find in the rail installation process that will save money, and that a Kanata connection could be far less costly than other parts of the city as there would be less need for tunneling or overpasses.

“If the report comes in good and the funding comes together, maybe I will get to ride a train before I’m done my job,” said Hubley.

“Up until my motion, we weren’t even going to be looking into this until 2031,” he said. “Now we could be riding a train in 2031.”



Earlier O-Train extension pondered

Another motion, tabled by Knoxdale-Merivale Coun. Keith Egli and carried by the committee, asks the city to fast track the O-Train Trillium line extension and see it done earlier than 2023. The plan for the line has new stations at South Keys, the Ottawa International Airport, Leitrim Road and Bowesville.


http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/5701044-fast-track-to-kanata/

Extending to Kanata would likely get less ridership than Orleans, or even extending from Baseline to Barrhaven Centre. The reasons are as follows:

1) The orientation of Kanata is north-south, while for all of Ottawa it is east-west. That means coverage would be limited in terms of trips that can walk onto the Confederation Line. Local buses would have to feed more than 95% of trips (for Orleans it would be about 80% and for Barrhaven about 70%).

2) LRT would not have any benefit for those that live and work in Kanata. As it is, those movements are extremely poorly served by transit and most who remain internal end up forced to drive. On the flip side...the fact that local buses would not have to turn towards Bayshore from Eagleson would enable straighter routings locally.

3) The catchment area of individual stations would have very few people. A station at Eagleson, serving the Park and Ride, would grab almost no walk-on traffic but would still be valuable especially if a large multi-level garage is built on site or nearby. Terry Fox would likely need to move eastward, directly under the Castlefrank overpass, to maximize the catchment area (even though it is a long distance from Kanata Centrum that is not really a ridership grabber anyway). Stations farther west would likely be deferred to Stage 4.

If built, I recommend a massive parking garage be built at Eagleson for 2,000 or more cars. At the same time, the Park and Ride at Terry Fox should be decommissioned and sold back to Kanata Centrum, with the whole station moved eastward about 400 metres. Local buses would be on Maritime Way nearby.

[BenTheGreat97]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

1) The orientation of Kanata is north-south, while for all of Ottawa it is east-west. That means coverage would be limited in terms of trips that can walk onto the Confederation Line. Local buses would have to feed more than 95% of trips (for Orleans it would be about 80% and for Barrhaven about 70%).

2) LRT would not have any benefit for those that live and work in Kanata. As it is, those movements are extremely poorly served by transit and most who remain internal end up forced to drive. On the flip side...the fact that local buses would not have to turn towards Bayshore from Eagleson would enable straighter routings locally.

3) The catchment area of individual stations would have very few people. A station at Eagleson, serving the Park and Ride, would grab almost no walk-on traffic but would still be valuable especially if a large multi-level garage is built on site or nearby. Terry Fox would likely need to move eastward, directly under the Castlefrank overpass, to maximize the catchment area (even though it is a long distance from Kanata Centrum that is not really a ridership grabber anyway). Stations farther west would likely be deferred to Stage 4.

If built, I recommend a massive parking garage be built at Eagleson for 2,000 or more cars. At the same time, the Park and Ride at Terry Fox should be decommissioned and sold back to Kanata Centrum, with the whole station moved eastward about 400 metres. Local buses would be on Maritime Way nearby.

Very good points made. And if it were extended to Kanata, the parking situation would definitely have to be corrected. Right now at rush hour, the park-and-ride lot at Eagleson station is just about full. They'd need to turn it into an even larger hub for this to be even remotely possible. And I agree on moving the current Centrum station to nearby Maritime Way. There are lots of new residential appartments that have been built in the last little while, so it is getting quite a lot denser which is great for LRT.

[Cre47]

Kanata would almost need two branches, the main one along the 417 and than a second for the growing Kanata South/Fernbank area (the area south of Hazeldean is probably over 50 000, probably add thousands more with the growing Fernbank area), although the latter one could be good enough for BRT only

[waterloowarrior]

The Bayshore to Moodie Transitway extension is pretty much ready to go. There is a report on tomorrow's transportation committee agenda to approve an at-grade transitway crossing at Moodie.. guessing this will be deferred
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=332336

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

The Bayshore to Moodie Transitway extension is pretty much ready to go. There is a report on tomorrow's transportation committee agenda to approve an at-grade transitway crossing at Moodie.. guessing this will be deferred
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=332336

(I am assuming that you are referring to the underpasses being deferred and not the report.)

I still have problems with deferring the underpass for Moodie Drive. Construction of that structure will only get more expensive as time goes on and more disruptive as the DND Complex fills with workers. The current idea is to "reduce" the budget by $22M, but it just means that we will be spending $40M later and breaking a much busier road later.

It also bothers me that the City will be backing out of building the Transitway overpass of Holly Acres Road now; just so they can put a bus lay-up in the SE corner of Holly Acres and the Bayshore Station access road. Since the Transitway should be extended BEFORE Bayshore Station gets converted, the train should be extended to Moodie along that grade-separated Transitway. Since that isn't likely to happen, however, then the bus lay-up should, at least, be put at the corner of Moodie and Corkstown. The added time for the buses to travel along a grade separated Transitway from Moodie to Bayshore is probably not a significant cost. This lay-up could also be used for buses serving the DND Complex and Bells Corners.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ACmodels

Fast track to Kanata
City looks into building LRT to Kanata link before 2031

Kanata Kourier-Standard
By Adam Kveton
2015-06-29

The city is looking into having light rail transit to Kanata before 2031 after a motion tabled by Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley passed at finance and economic development committee on June 29.

Awesome!

More LRT for sprawling, low-density, auto-dependent suburbs!

No real mass transit for any higher-density, transit-supportive inner communities, except those that happen to be near the routes connecting suburbs to the downtown core!

Awesome! Enjoy my taxes, Kanata! So much awesome!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Extending to Kanata would likely get less ridership than Orleans, or even extending from Baseline to Barrhaven Centre. The reasons are as follows:

1) The orientation of Kanata is north-south, while for all of Ottawa it is east-west. That means coverage would be limited in terms of trips that can walk onto the Confederation Line. Local buses would have to feed more than 95% of trips (for Orleans it would be about 80% and for Barrhaven about 70%).

2) LRT would not have any benefit for those that live and work in Kanata. As it is, those movements are extremely poorly served by transit and most who remain internal end up forced to drive. On the flip side...the fact that local buses would not have to turn towards Bayshore from Eagleson would enable straighter routings locally.

This alone could significantly improve intra-Kanata travel and it could allow for routes to converge at Terry Fox with timed transfers, could allow for direct buses from Bridlewood into Kanata North, and other such goodies.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

3) The catchment area of individual stations would have very few people. A station at Eagleson, serving the Park and Ride, would grab almost no walk-on traffic but would still be valuable especially if a large multi-level garage is built on site or nearby. Terry Fox would likely need to move eastward, directly under the Castlefrank overpass, to maximize the catchment area (even though it is a long distance from Kanata Centrum that is not really a ridership grabber anyway). Stations farther west would likely be deferred to Stage 4.

If built, I recommend a massive parking garage be built at Eagleson for 2,000 or more cars. At the same time, the Park and Ride at Terry Fox should be decommissioned and sold back to Kanata Centrum, with the whole station moved eastward about 400 metres. Local buses would be on Maritime Way nearby.

Eagleson Station would have to be north of the highway.. probably requiring a pedestrian overpass. This however would make some parts of the Park and Ride, namely the lot west of Eagleson, a very long walk.

I would build a series of multi-level garages directly adjacent to the highway, both north side (new access from Corkstown Road), and south side, with a total capacity of around 2,000, and sell off most of the existing parking lots further south for redevelopment with high-rise zoning. That way you get some funding to help pay for the multi-level garages, and also some more walk-up traffic.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Awesome!

More LRT for sprawling, low-density, auto-dependent suburbs!

No real mass transit for any higher-density, transit-supportive inner communities, except those that happen to be near the routes connecting suburbs to the downtown core!

Awesome! Enjoy my taxes, Kanata! So much awesome!

Bug Fleury and Nussbaum to push for a Rideau-Montreal LRT corridor. Nobody's even talking about it at City Hall. Nussbaum in particular could probably get the conversation going.

[1overcosc]

The city's much-discussed limit of $550M available for transit spending after Phase 2 through to 2048 is not really completely true. That's the limit within the city's current funding mechanisms.

The city could easily grow this pot by dedicating more revenue. For example, if the city added an additional 1.0% to the property tax increase next year and dedicated that 1% exclusively for transit capital, that alone would yield an additional ~$450M to add to that "money until 2048" limit.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Bug Fleury and Nussbaum to push for a Rideau-Montreal LRT corridor. Nobody's even talking about it at City Hall. Nussbaum in particular could probably get the conversation going.

Also the cost of it would likely be over $4 billion easily, as most of the route will need to be underground (certainly at least as far as St. Laurent Boulevard, possibly farther) as no surface ROW exists without significant expropriation. Depending on routings east of there, it might be able to emerge to the surface near the Aviation Parkway.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Also the cost of it would likely be over $4 billion easily, as most of the route will need to be underground (certainly at least as far as St. Laurent Boulevard, possibly farther) as no surface ROW exists without significant expropriation. Depending on routings east of there, it might be able to emerge to the surface near the Aviation Parkway.

It could theoretically be on the surface almost the entire way--from about King Edward eastward--as the ROW on uptown RIdeau is wide enough to accomodate a median LRT ROW, if they removed the bus/parking lanes on the outside thus narrowing the road to one car lane, one LRT lane in each direction.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The city could easily grow this pot by dedicating more revenue. For example, if the city added an additional 1.0% to the property tax increase next year and dedicated that 1% exclusively for transit capital, that alone would yield an additional ~$450M to add to that "money until 2048" limit.

Another approach would be to freeze salaries for a year or two and reduce pension benefits to make them more in line with the Private Sector. That should free up significant cash for transit.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Another approach would be to freeze salaries for a year or two and reduce pension benefits to make them more in line with the Private Sector. That should free up significant cash for transit.

Freezing salaries wouldn't free up nearly as much as you'd think. A move to DC pension would take decades to yield any significant cash as you'd have to grandfather all the existing DB members in...

The ORPP may end up reducing the city's pension obligations if it's applied to workers with DB pensions; but signals are that it won't be.

Municipalities are actually pretty bare-bones efficient already (as opposed to federal & provincial governments where there are substantial efficiencies that can be made) thanks to the legacy of the 1990s downloading.