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  #361  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Yes, fixing a three decade old mistake. If the NCC had any sense, which they likely don't, they'd allow the old station site to be redeveloped and reduce the extent of isolation of the replacement station.
Certainly agree with you on that point.
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  #362  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
I really see no reason why, by the time automation would likely come, that an automated low-floor train would not be available. We are talking decades away. There may well be self driving cars by then.

In the worse case they would need something custom, but many subways already get custom equipment. I don't see this being a big deal.
Exactly. There's a surprising amount of civil engineering types who seem to think that today's technological limitations will be in place indefinitely.
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  #363  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
My worry about this is the size of the tram carriages. They are SO narrow, claustrophobic even for long journeys.
I had the same thought when I saw the mock up at Lansdowne. There's no way two large people can pass each other on those tight aisles with decency Getting out of a window seat on a packed train will probably be difficult.
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  #364  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 5:38 PM
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Final LRT western extension open house reveals recommendations

City transportation planners lay bare most likely LRT westerm extension plans for public scrutiny

By Megan DeLaire
Nepean Barrhaven News, May 4, 2015


The city revealed recommendations for the western light rail extension on April 29, which included removing and adding stations along the line and establishing routes for construction detours on April 29.

Plans for the extension were disclosed in what the city called the final western extension open house at city hall. Representatives from the city’s transportation planning department said that the final plans revealed on April 29 for the LRT track and its corresponding stations were deemed the most suitable out of 12 options.

Factors considered when choosing the final route included economic feasibility, environmental impact, transit efficiency and accessibility, and working around municipal infrastructure including a large underground water main and a large underground sanitary sewer.

The city confirmed that Queensway station would be decommissioned and replaced with a new Queensview station further west. Two other new LRT stations confirmed include Cleary station on Cleary Avenue and New Orchard station between Clearly and Lincoln Fields stations. Lincoln Fields station will be reconstructed slightly north of its current location, beneath Carling Avenue.

The presentation addressed concerns by some residents about whether tracks would be laid over Byron linear park. According to the city’s presentation, the LRT line would be situated below grade on the northern edge of the park.

“There’s thousands of people who use that park,” said Charles Biscope, a resident of nearby Alison Street. “But I think, by the looks of it, it’s going to be OK. Then again, it’s way down the road.”

The presentation also addressed fears that construction of the LRT extension from Lincoln Fields station to Baseline station would negatively affect the ecology of Pinecrest Creek and the surrounding woods and trails.

Planning consultant David Hopper said that the watershed, which has been reshaped over the years by development, would be returned to its original alignment as part of construction along the corridor. Hopper added that former wetland areas along the Pinecrest corridor would be restored in order to re-naturalize the area and mitigate flooding.

Hopper talked about the effect on transit and road traffic during construction of the western extension. He said that in addition to Scott Street and Richmond Road, Carling Avenue and Hwy. 417 would be used to re-route buses from the existing Transitway during construction of the line between Tunney’s Pasture and Dominion stations.

Karen Large, who lives near Scott Street, was relieved by the prospect of other roadways being used to re-route bus traffic. She and many residents in neighbourhoods along Scott have expressed concern in the past about the impacts of LRT construction on local traffic.

“I’m really encouraged today because they’re actually taking a lot of our ideas and they’re utilizing them for phase two. We kept asking them where the buses were going to go, there’s 2,500 buses a day,” Large said. “Now what I’m very excited about, and was not expecting, is that they’re now reconsidering some of their design.”

Among topics that left some people concerned were plans for Cleary station to be constructed on Cleary Avenue behind the Unitarian House of Ottawa, a retirement facility. Residents of Unitarian House were worried about sound and vibration disturbances during construction, as well as changes to the geography of the Unitarian House parking lot. Residents at the open house also expressed concerns about a large bus staging area Hopper said would be constructed as part of LRT modifications to Bayshore station.

City transportation planning representatives said public comments would be considered in future planning and engineering of the western LRT extension.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-...sion-open-house-reveals-recommendations/
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  #365  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 4:05 PM
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The display boards from the April 29th Open House are now posted.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transit/open-house-april-29-2015
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  #366  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:41 PM
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I find the display boards very interesting. It is actually very detailed in some areas like, Potential Construction Segments/Detours and Maintenance and Storage Facility Requirements and Potential Sites. That part I found very interesting as I never know we would need a another storage facility. I thought the yard at Belfast Rd was designed to accommodate more trains for the future. Out of the 19 sites for a future M&SF only 6 are candidates. But to me I find sites 18 and 19 an exploitation attempt of houses which is a stupid decision by they city thinking it has "potential". Site 1, 13 and 6 seem like actual good candidates.
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  #367  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 3:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
The display boards from the April 29th Open House are now posted.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transit/open-house-april-29-2015
Again, City planning staff who read this forum: why can't you post these things ahead of time?
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  #368  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ACmodels View Post
I find the display boards very interesting. It is actually very detailed in some areas like, Potential Construction Segments/Detours and Maintenance and Storage Facility Requirements and Potential Sites. That part I found very interesting as I never know we would need a another storage facility. I thought the yard at Belfast Rd was designed to accommodate more trains for the future. Out of the 19 sites for a future M&SF only 6 are candidates. But to me I find sites 18 and 19 an exploitation attempt of houses which is a stupid decision by they city thinking it has "potential". Site 1, 13 and 6 seem like actual good candidates.
I'm pretty sure sites 18/19 are in the Youville industrial park. The map is confusing because the highways (417 and 174) are missing.
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  #369  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ACmodels View Post
I find the display boards very interesting. It is actually very detailed in some areas like, Potential Construction Segments/Detours and Maintenance and Storage Facility Requirements and Potential Sites. That part I found very interesting as I never know we would need a another storage facility. I thought the yard at Belfast Rd was designed to accommodate more trains for the future. Out of the 19 sites for a future M&SF only 6 are candidates. But to me I find sites 18 and 19 an exploitation attempt of houses which is a stupid decision by they city thinking it has "potential". Site 1, 13 and 6 seem like actual good candidates.
I think the only real candidate is on Holly Acres, just to the west of the Bayshore Terminus. There is the space, and Im pretty sure it is City Owned lands anyways. But Im sure the City has a better idea as to where they want to put it.
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  #370  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 2:28 PM
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Belfast MSF was designed to grow significantly, and probably has the capacity to handle all the Phase 2 vehicles, but as the transit system continues to grow it's going to eventually hit its limit.

Moreover, once Phase 2 is built, trains will have to be deadheading from Bayshore all the way to Tremblay... that's a LONG distance. Some sort of additional facility, even if its just a simple layover space and not a full MSF, is needed in the west to cut down on those deadhead times. Holly Acres is convenient for this purpose as its right near the western terminus.

In Toronto, in order to keep deadheads to a minimum, they actually keep the same frequency in all off peak hours. Trains come every 2 minutes at peak, 4 minutes at all other times--even at one in the morning. They have found that it's cheaper to just keep the same number of trains on the line all day then it is to deadhead trains all the time in order to change service levels.

The draft frequencies for the Confederation Line have 5 minute frequencies in most off peak periods, dropping to 8 minutes in the late evenings, so it does appear Ottawa's trying to do the same to an extent.
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  #371  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 4:43 PM
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Last edited by rocketphish; Jun 12, 2015 at 4:47 PM. Reason: wrong thread
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  #372  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Belfast MSF was designed to grow significantly, and probably has the capacity to handle all the Phase 2 vehicles, but as the transit system continues to grow it's going to eventually hit its limit.

Moreover, once Phase 2 is built, trains will have to be deadheading from Bayshore all the way to Tremblay... that's a LONG distance. Some sort of additional facility, even if its just a simple layover space and not a full MSF, is needed in the west to cut down on those deadhead times. Holly Acres is convenient for this purpose as its right near the western terminus.

...

The draft frequencies for the Confederation Line have 5 minute frequencies in most off peak periods, dropping to 8 minutes in the late evenings, so it does appear Ottawa's trying to do the same to an extent.
I knew there must have been a purpose behind Rocketphish bumping this thread.... I have a question...

Why does any form of deadheading need to occur? I mean... first train out in the morning can start picking up/dropping off passengers right away on its journey west.... Last one in the evening can say "Last Stop - Train Station"... Similarly when the schedules change.... no deadheading required...
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  #373  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 6:00 PM
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^ It would create a long lag to increase/decrease service levels that way.
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  #374  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 6:02 PM
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Since fewer buses would be needed at that stage, maybe Pinecrest Garage could be reconstructed as a rail facility?
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  #375  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
^ It would create a long lag to increase/decrease service levels that way.
Sorry... but I can't get my head around this... I must be missing something

Lets say they are on 8 minute frequency... and want to increase to 4.... just wait 4 minutes after a train passes the maintenance yard, then shove another train onto the tracks... why (and even how) would it bother deadheading to the end of the line first ???
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  #376  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 6:37 PM
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Say you have a Bayshore-Place D'Orleans service.

Say we want trains coming every 3 minutes until 6pm, then down to 6 minutes. If at around 6pm, other train could just go out of service and sit in a layby yard for the night when it gets to Bayshore, it wouldn't have to trek all the way back to Tremblay. Even if its going in service to Tremblay, thus not deadheading, it's still that many extra vehicle kilometres driven.
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  #377  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 7:48 PM
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Sorry... I'm not the tiniest bit convinced.

Why oh why oh why does it have to be "endpoint-to-endpoint" 3 to 6 minute service??

Starting at 6pm, every second train simply pulls into Tremblay. Neat and tidy. No need to start building extra yards all over the place.
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  #378  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2015, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Sorry... I'm not the tiniest bit convinced.

Why oh why oh why does it have to be "endpoint-to-endpoint" 3 to 6 minute service??

Starting at 6pm, every second train simply pulls into Tremblay. Neat and tidy. No need to start building extra yards all over the place.
It could work, it just provides less flexibility with service.
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  #379  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2015, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Sorry... I'm not the tiniest bit convinced.

Why oh why oh why does it have to be "endpoint-to-endpoint" 3 to 6 minute service??

Starting at 6pm, every second train simply pulls into Tremblay. Neat and tidy. No need to start building extra yards all over the place.
I have heard that is exactly what happens on the Bloor-Danforth subway in Toronto to the frustration of passengers, which have to change trains just before a train goes out of service.

I would expect all trains would go to the maintenance yard when going out of service especially at night to allow proper maintenance, cleaning and to maintain proper security.
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  #380  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2015, 2:13 PM
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I have heard that is exactly what happens on the Bloor-Danforth subway in Toronto to the frustration of passengers, which have to change trains just before a train goes out of service.
I still don't see a problem here... are we talking about building a full second train garage simply to "ease the frustration" of passengers having to deal with trains which will not run the full length of the track a couple of times per day?

I already deal with that constantly with the #94 transitway bus which only goes as far as Tunneys Pasture.

Additionally, how exactly does a train "deadhead" from one end of the line when there are multiple functioning trains ahead of it?

And actually, as a part time transitway user, my biggest frustration by far is standing at the Westboro station and watching (no exaggeration)... 8 empty "deadheading" buses drive by at high speed before a real #95 or 96 comes alone... what a waste.
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