PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[1487]

Originally Posted by VikingDutchman

I remember when Boston Common was a nice park... Then that AMC opened and the place quickly devolved into a post-apocalyptic hellscape. The Supermutan- sorry, teenagers, have claimed all of Chinatown now, and it's only a matter of time before they cross the river and bring their loud music, low-hanging pants and insatiable hunger for human flesh to Cambridge.

But of course, I'm sure you'll say that that's a completely different scenario. I'm sure the big and well liked AMC in Newport, KY, 10 minutes walk from downtown Cincinnati and just a few blocks from public housing, is also a completely different scenario. I could go on, but I'm sure they're all different scenarios to you.

The notion that indigent teenagers were a cause of decline in Center City is absurd. Absurdity matched only by your very much racist and classist suggestion that CC should only for certain types of people, that we should actively be involved in trying to keep other types of people out of the area and not build anything they might like, and most absurdly that we all should be made worse off by the absence of certain amenities, because they might attract an 'element' you're paranoid about.

Center City belongs to Philadelphia, to all of Philadelphia. It does not belong to well-heeled college educated white folks with suitably suburban attitudes about all social and cultural topics. A Center City like that is not worthy of the name and is little more than an Epcot Center exhibit.

Im glad someone else gets it. I was just in baltimore staying at a hotel in the East Harbor area and they had a very nice urban multiplex that appeared to be less than 5 years old. The entire area is full of recently constructed mid and hirises. There are already movie theaters in CC- just not venues that show popular, big budget movies. THe idea that placing any movie theater in any city means you are going to attract hordes of thugs looking to attack and pillage is absurd.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

[yawning and checking my watch] Did you just finish your sociology term paper? Pipe down.

I didn't say I thought it was right. I'd like a nice multiplex in Center City.

I'm just summarizing what most corporate developer/investors think. You don't seem to get that. Note I suggested there is an element of institutional racism or classism probably at play here. Note also I pointed out the difference between correlation and causation.

The fact is, only companies like PREIT with big money will build a multiplex, and only if it adds value to their overall development strategy. They build stuff for and make money off upper middle class people (not me, BTW), not teens who like kung fu flicks. They won't develop things that don't contribute to their "value proposition".

If you want a mainstream multiplex in Center City that shows youth-oriented movies, my guess is that you'll have to get the City to build it, because I don't think PREIT, Brandywine, Liberty Property, or any other corporate player will.

Now, please continue ignoring what I wrote and go on blithering your self-righteous rant at straw men.

Here's a concept for you- sometimes people in different demographic groups like the same things. I know its a shock based on your worldview in which different people live and operate in totally isolated bubbles. MAny people like movies. Some are teens, some are in their 30s, some are black, some may live in the areas of Philly you don't care about. MOney is all that matters. Ive never heard of a movie theater that turns away a paying teen customer. I remember back in the day there was controversy over Main street not showing mainstream movies that they thought would attract younger or darker patrons. They stopped being so selective about what they show because they needed paying customers and without those people they used to shun Main Street 6 would probably be out of business. I have the silly belief that if you can pay for something you have the right to enjoy it. If there is demand for a top tier movieplex we should get one and not be worried about the fact that it may attract to many paying teens from North Philly. You set the tone for a venue with pricing, upkeep, security, etc. I guess you've never seen the Apple store on Walnut. Teens in there all the time, never hear of any riots, fights, attacks, etc. because they have security and the kids who visit there understand that. ANd perhaps they just want to use the store for the same purpose as the CC types who frequent the store. I mean its quite a concept- Imagine teens or other undesirables actually going to a store or movie theater to spend money like normal people!

[1487]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Upper Middle Class people are not going to shop at "The Fashion Outlets of Philadelphia" on East Market Street, FYI.

They'll be on Walnut Street.

The people who will be at the Fashion Outlets of Philadelphia are regular folk and tourists, which is ironic, considering you seem to suggest that's exactly who they're trying to avoid attracting, according to you.

Anyways...yawn. Demographic discussions are boring, especially when everyone claims to be not a part of this or that group. Relative to the population as a whole, there are relatively few "upper middle" class people, at least as defined by demographers, in comparison to the total population. There are even fewer truly wealthy (i.e. upper class) people.

To suggest this development could survive without the vast middle is just absurd. That's squarely who they're aiming for even though they're not admitting it because doing so is not sexy for marketing purposes.

Exactly, its like the folks who were complaining about the outlet concept for the gallery because they want Nordstroms, gucci, Prada, LV, etc. It's not going to be like 5th ave because we dont have the demographics to support those stores. The millenials paying $1500 for efficiencies are not rich, they are just gainfully employed. If you look at how they dress and where they spend money the idea that we have pent up demand for a gucci store is comical. We are getting outlets because we want tourists and middle class Philly people to actually buy something from this new mall. And just as there are teens and young adults shopping at Century 21- you will find them at the new Gallery looking for name brand goods for decent prices.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by McBane

I don't get the pushback on this project. Yea, it's a mall. But so what? What were you guys expecting? 5th Ave type shops? A Dubai-type super mall? Please give an example.

Breaking out the exterior walls will make it infinitely better than the old Gallery. And for people who don't even step foot inside, it should create a much nicer pedestrian experience for those walking between the Convention Center and the historical sites. As far as CC goes, Market East is the most appropriate place for these types of stores to go.

I think the plans for the Gallery are, simply put, the least imaginative solution to the problem. I would have liked to see more big box retail for residents: Bed Bath and Beyond, Home Goods, Crate and Barrell, Container Store, Best Buy, urban Home Depot. Stores for the booming parents/children population like Toys R Us, Babies R Us, or Carters. I would love to see a high end cinema concept (dinner, cocktails, lounge chairs) or a House-of-Blues-style performance venue.

It's a HUGE facility, so having a Gucci or Prada outlet portion for tourists is fine - it just seems like a perfect location for all of the massive footprint stores that, otherwise, can't open in CC and that, imo, would be a huge miss for us residents.

[Outta here]

[QUOTE=Baconboy007;7071168]Can we get more pictures and less arguments?

Did you know that there's a model of the Comcast buildings at the Philadelphia center for Architecture?




Neat model , thanks for posting ..... We all know the listed height for CITC center is 1121 at the top of
the spire . It is also evident the " roof line " is somewhat shorted than Comcast . So my question is ,
if this is the official height , than what is the roof height .......

[lsksl]

Philly isn't getting more super-luxury retail because people from the suburbs and the city itself have the option of getting to King of Prussia (which does have all these brands) and Manhattan within 1 and a half hours. That's the opposite of what happens in NYC, SF and Boston: people go from the suburbs into the city to do luxury shopping, not the other way around. Many wealthy Philly suburbs can even find KOP a lot more convenient than Center City. And there is a Barneys in CC (along with some American luxury brands) which probably caters to the super-wealthy people in CC who regularly shop expensive items.

Philly is becoming a more important tourist destination nowadays, so maybe that will boost the luxury market a little. There are also more luxury hotels and condos being built.

Washington D.C. has similar luxury retail offerings as Philly even though in general it is a lot more expensive, and also has most of the top 10 wealthiest suburbs in the country. But it doesn't have a Chanel, Gucci, LV, Prada, etc. store within its boundaries. It only has them in the suburbs.

[Jawnadelphia]

[QUOTE=Outta here;7071317]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

Can we get more pictures and less arguments?

Did you know that there's a model of the Comcast buildings at the Philadelphia center for Architecture?




Neat model , thanks for posting ..... We all know the listed height for CITC center is 1121 at the top of
the spire . It is also evident the " roof line " is somewhat shorted than Comcast . So my question is ,
if this is the official height , than what is the roof height .......

Bro, tons of pics posted on the CITC thread from the exhibit and on my flickr. But here you go anyways.

[IMG]IMG_1604 by screennameLLC, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Flyers2001]

[tower]

that's actually kinda sexy right there

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Whoa...didn't expect to see this so soon. And, love the trees on the roofs. Is there a link to these rendering for more details. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Whoa...didn't expect to see this so soon. And, love the trees on the roofs. Is there a link to these rendering for more details. Inquiring minds want to know.

There is no link, not a lot of info is being put out. These are renderings that will more than likely change a bit. There is still questions of wether they will be moving convention ave. Demolition will start in September and take approx 6-8 months. A couple of cool tidbits, Shooting for 4 levels below grade, but it seems they are expecting water issues on east end that would play havoc on timelines, as it did to Chop. The other very cool idea is to have a tunnel that will run from first floor below grade to the train station. It would alleviate foot traffic across Health Service drive.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

There is no link, not a lot of info is being put out. These are renderings that will more than likely change a bit. There is still questions of wether they will be moving convention ave. Demolition will start in September and take approx 6-8 months. A couple of cool tidbits, Shooting for 4 levels below grade, but it seems they are expecting water issues on east end that would play havoc on timelines, as it did to Chop. The other very cool idea is to have a tunnel that will run from first floor below grade to the train station. It would alleviate foot traffic across Health Service drive.

Cool...thanks for sharing the tidbits of information. Very excited for this one to get going with all of the new/newer building in what I consider its health/research complex.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

There is no link, not a lot of info is being put out. These are renderings that will more than likely change a bit. There is still questions of wether they will be moving convention ave. Demolition will start in September and take approx 6-8 months. A couple of cool tidbits, Shooting for 4 levels below grade, but it seems they are expecting water issues on east end that would play havoc on timelines, as it did to Chop. The other very cool idea is to have a tunnel that will run from first floor below grade to the train station. It would alleviate foot traffic across Health Service drive.

Have you heard any more about the long-term plans for the older HUP buildings? Will this ultimately replace those? Or just supplement them and significantly increase HUP's capacity?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I think the plans for the Gallery are, simply put, the least imaginative solution to the problem. I would have liked to see more big box retail for residents: Bed Bath and Beyond, Home Goods, Crate and Barrell, Container Store, Best Buy, urban Home Depot. Stores for the booming parents/children population like Toys R Us, Babies R Us, or Carters. I would love to see a high end cinema concept (dinner, cocktails, lounge chairs) or a House-of-Blues-style performance venue.

It's a HUGE facility, so having a Gucci or Prada outlet portion for tourists is fine - it just seems like a perfect location for all of the massive footprint stores that, otherwise, can't open in CC and that, imo, would be a huge miss for us residents.

I agree completely.

But you're not getting a Gucci outlet or a Prada outlet.

You're gonna get a Kate Spade Outlet and a Coach Outlet. Which is why I think it's bad...because the stores that will be interested in signing on are stores that could actually be supported on Walnut, and they won't have to go to Walnut after they open an outlet because it's well...close enough.

And even if they did (open stores on Walnut in addition to the Outlet Center), the Outlet will lcannabalize sales to such an extent that they won't be sustainable.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

There is no link, not a lot of info is being put out. These are renderings that will more than likely change a bit. There is still questions of wether they will be moving convention ave. Demolition will start in September and take approx 6-8 months. A couple of cool tidbits, Shooting for 4 levels below grade, but it seems they are expecting water issues on east end that would play havoc on timelines, as it did to Chop. The other very cool idea is to have a tunnel that will run from first floor below grade to the train station. It would alleviate foot traffic across Health Service drive.

Please enlighten me... what exactly is this rendering for, or to replace for UPenn...?? there's so much going on over there between Penn, CHOP etc, I get confused. Btw - I like that rendering though.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Please enlighten me... what exactly is this rendering for, or to replace for UPenn...?? there's so much going on over there between Penn, CHOP etc, I get confused. Btw - I like that rendering though.

This will be the new HUP tower(s), designed by Norman Foster, to be built roughly where the old Penn Tower currently stands (between the Penn Museum and the Perelman Center for Advanced Medicine). It's supposed to be a $1.5 billion project (presumably including all of the leading-edge medical technology that will be incorporated into it):

Morning Headlines: Foster + Partners Will Design $1.5 Billion Penn Health Systems Tower Project

Penn Health System picks development team, 'starchitect' for hospital expansion

[Jawnadelphia]

^^^Thanks.
Didnt realize this was that - the Foster/Upenn expansion. Was sort of hoping that was gonna be a big vertical addition. Still cool looking though.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^^^Thanks.
Didnt realize this was that - the Foster/Upenn expansion. Was sort of hoping that was gonna be a big vertical addition. Still cool looking though.

Well, it is going to be a 700-bed hospital with a fairly large footprint, so I'm not sure how much taller it could have been. Those roof-top parks--and not merely green roofs--should be amazing, though, and I'd imagine quite unique for a hospital!

[Mappy]

Philly District 30

suggestions renders, and, layouts Im sending to the plan consultants...

for your viewing pleasure.

http://imgur.com/a/ukjQp

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^^^Thanks.
Didnt realize this was that - the Foster/Upenn expansion. Was sort of hoping that was gonna be a big vertical addition. Still cool looking though.

It looks to have 22-24 floors on the eastern side. I am not sure what the floor heights would be but Perelman next to it stands around 300-310 feet and this will be taller, I would say height around 350-375. Different floors are going to have different heights with this depending on use I would guess. The CN level at Perelman is almost the size of 2 floors at a office building.

Again I am guess things change a bit, who knows with Penn they may go back to the two tower approach as there was a small model built. Either case we are looking at 2021 type finish, pending issues.

The majority of current HUP will return to Upenn the school.