Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[king10]

Originally Posted by Richard Lipschitz

How do I post a photo that was taken by me? (if it doesn't have a URL)?

upload it to imagur. you can click the type of upload that uploads files from your computer

[thurmas]

I still think renovating BC Place was a mistake. It's still far too big for the Lions and Whitecaps needs. I think it would have made more sense to spend the $565 million they did on the renovation instead on a new 30,000 seat CFL/MLS stadium on the site of UBC at Thunderbird stadium or somewhere else in the Metro Vancouver Lower Mainland area.

[king10]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I still think renovating BC Place was a mistake. It's still far too big for the Lions and Whitecaps needs. I think it would have made more sense to spend the $565 million they did on the renovation instead on a new 30,000 seat CFL/MLS stadium on the site of UBC at Thunderbird stadium or somewhere else in the Metro Vancouver Lower Mainland area.

Thing is BC place is an indoor facility used year round for trade shows and conventions. It has a much larger revenue stream than an outdoor stadium would have. Also you just can't beat the location.

And of course a 30 000 seat stadium would mean Vancouver misses out on hosting world class events like the womens world cup final game which will be watched by hundreds of millions.

[Richard Lipschitz]

Went to TD Place on Saturday to see Germany v. Sweden. Sat in the south side. For those who say the old grandstand has been completely modernized, I say ...





What kind of self respecting developer "overhauls" a facility and leaves this kind of mess in plain sight ... right at the entrance? There's more too. These are examples of what you can find throughout the building IF you look around. The concourse is dark, gloomy and drab and way too narrow. Weathered & worn concrete (as per pics) and aged mechanical equipment can be seen everywhere. It doesn't feel new. It doesn't even feel like it was renovated well.

As someone posted earlier, this stadium leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Like there should be more to behold. But there isn't.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Well they used to only open one sideline of upperbowl seating, which is directly above the seats that photo was taken from. The rest were never sold. The difference is, now even the ones above those seats aren't available.

The Lions have gone back and forth on this over the last 20 years or so. They have used full upper deck openings, partial openings, and a bunch in between. I remember one of their old GMs saying that there is a contingent of fans that prefers sitting in the upper deck (not surprising, many venues offer their best views from the first row or two of the upper deck) so for a while they kept it open along one sideline, but it costs money to run all the concessions and have the level fully staffed with ushers, security, vendors, etc. Makes sense if you have 10,000 people up there, but not so much when there are 2,000.

Originally Posted by thurmas

I still think renovating BC Place was a mistake. It's still far too big for the Lions and Whitecaps needs. I think it would have made more sense to spend the $565 million they did on the renovation instead on a new 30,000 seat CFL/MLS stadium on the site of UBC at Thunderbird stadium or somewhere else in the Metro Vancouver Lower Mainland area.

Strictly in terms of the Lions and Whitecaps I'd say you're right, but it's clear that BC decided to keep this venue going to fill a bigger role as a site for major events. That, and the fact that BC Place is basically a luxurious new stadium built at a discount given that they used the pre-existing structure. If they had built a new stadium they never would have been able to find such an ideal location either.

[king10]

ya, thats an eyesore. Some money should have been allocated to refresh the concrete.

[Richard Lipschitz]

Oh forgot to say b'bye as I will most assuredly be banned.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Richard Lipschitz

What kind of self respecting developer "overhauls" a facility and leaves this kind of mess in plain sight ... right at the entrance? There's more too. These are examples of what you can find throughout the building IF you look around. The concourse is dark, gloomy and drab and way too narrow. Weathered & worn concrete (as per pics) and aged mechanical equipment can be seen everywhere. It doesn't feel new. It doesn't even feel like it was renovated well.

As someone posted earlier, this stadium leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Like there should be more to behold. But there isn't.

I get the impression that Ottawa was trapped by the Civic Centre. The stadium could have stood to be fully replaced, but the arena portion is still going strong... so there will be a 15,000 seat grandstand (the north stands) in place whether anyone likes it or not. It's hard to justify building a new stadium in a city with a spotty football history when this structure exists, even if it isn't shiny or new.

In my view, what would have really made TD Place is if they had really done up the south side stands. For instance, making it bigger, making it a little sleeker as it appeared in the renderings, extending the canopy farther over the seating area, wrapping the north end zone in seats to make it look less like the events are taking place in some community park, that sort of thing. Obviously that wouldn't have fixed the issues with the north stands, but then you would have at least had one impressive stand and one older, shabbier stand.

[Richard Lipschitz]

Originally Posted by esquire

In my view, what would have really made TD Place is if they had really done up the south side stands. For instance, making it bigger, making it a little sleeker as it appeared in the renderings, extending the canopy farther over the seating area, wrapping the north end zone in seats to make it look less like the events are taking place in some community park, that sort of thing. Obviously that wouldn't have fixed the issues with the north stands, but then you would have at least had one impressive stand and one older, shabbier stand.

Agreed. The wood veil serves no practical purpose. That fine I guess, except for the fact that it's aesthetic/architectural value can't really be experienced from the facility itself. You obviously can't appreciate it while sitting in the south side. And you can't really notice it whatsoever from the north side. It's a non-feature unless you're driving down Bank Street or Colonel By Drive. The only good thing I can say about sitting in the north side on Saturday is that the roof provided good shade. Those poor bastards on the south side got scorched.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

I get the impression that Ottawa was trapped by the Civic Centre. The stadium could have stood to be fully replaced, but the arena portion is still going strong... so there will be a 15,000 seat grandstand (the north stands) in place whether anyone likes it or not. It's hard to justify building a new stadium in a city with a spotty football history when this structure exists, even if it isn't shiny or new.

In my view, what would have really made TD Place is if they had really done up the south side stands. For instance, making it bigger, making it a little sleeker as it appeared in the renderings, extending the canopy farther over the seating area, wrapping the north end zone in seats to make it look less like the events are taking place in some community park, that sort of thing. Obviously that wouldn't have fixed the issues with the north stands, but then you would have at least had one impressive stand and one older, shabbier stand.

I think all they had to do was spend some money on restoring the concrete facade. I still hold out hope that they will wrap the stands around at least one endzone when demand warrants it.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I still think renovating BC Place was a mistake. It's still far too big for the Lions and Whitecaps needs. I think it would have made more sense to spend the $565 million they did on the renovation instead on a new 30,000 seat CFL/MLS stadium on the site of UBC at Thunderbird stadium or somewhere else in the Metro Vancouver Lower Mainland area.

AHH This is such a sensitive subject. BC place is a great stadium. 2 grey cups, A heritage classic and WWC.

The fact is you need a roof in a stadium in Vancouver with the rainy climate there. So how far would that 600M get you If you had to tear down BC place and Build an additional 40K Stadium? (30K isn't big enough for Vancouver's Metro) And if that was the case you bet the Whitecaps Would fight tooth and Nail for their own Stadium as they were before the BC place Reno's.

But You're not alone in the thought that it was a mistake. It's been compared to the modern day Fast ferries. Im just surprised they didn't sell the Naming rights to Telus who were basically begging for it at market value.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/09/04/BC-Place-Giant-Lemon/

As for the Seating arrangement why don't they just tarp off the endzones on both decks? The same kind of tarp that Seattle uses for Sounders games they actually look pretty cool

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by king10

I think all they had to do was spend some money on restoring the concrete facade. I still hold out hope that they will wrap the stands around at least one endzone when demand warrants it.

Meh, throw up some banners or something up. The same thing THF did where a ribbon board would usually go. You guys are splitting hairs on an 85M project

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The fact is you need a roof in a stadium in Vancouver with the rainy climate there.

Interesting that you would say that and then go on to post a picture of CenturyLink Field, which has no roof!

Although that said, I agree that holding on to BC Place made pretty good sense. BC Place is still well suited to Vancouver's needs... if it were a NFL stadium it would have been demolished by now, but none of BC Place's tenants have the same needs nor can they exert the same kind of pressure that a NFL team can, where barely 20 year old stadiums are routinely put out of commission and replaced with new ones (which is lunacy, but that's another post).

[Richard Lipschitz]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Complete concourse renovation, completely new roof, new seats,new windows Its been as modernized as any grandstand can be. Has everything BC place got not sure what your complaining about...

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

You guys are splitting hairs on an 85M project

... well, which one is it?

[thurmas]

Vancouver had a great opportunity to build a beautiful 30,000 seat stadium with open end zones for temp seating during Grey Cup time either at UBC or old Empire Stadiums site. I could imagine a beautiful stadium design nestled in the mountains similar to the gorgeous Hong Kong stadium that would be perfect for the Lions and Whitecaps. As for the remark that BC place was still needed for conventions I don't' buy that the vast majority of major US cities Like San Fran, Denver ect.. have open air stadiums and they still have major conventions in their cities every year.

here is a look at Hong Kong stadium that would have been perfect for Vancouver:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Stadium

[king10]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Meh, throw up some banners or something up. The same thing THF did where a ribbon board would usually go. You guys are splitting hairs on an 85M project

The concrete at THF isn't weathered and crumbling.

[king10]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Vancouver had a great opportunity to build a beautiful 30,000 seat stadium with open end zones for temp seating during Grey Cup time either at UBC or old Empire Stadiums site. I could imagine a beautiful stadium design nestled in the mountains similar to the gorgeous Hong Kong stadium that would be perfect for the Lions and Whitecaps. As for the remark that BC place was still needed for conventions I don't' buy that the vast majority of major US cities Like San Fran, Denver ect.. have open air stadiums and they still have major conventions in their cities every year.

here is a look at Hong Kong stadium that would have been perfect for Vancouver:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Stadium

Thats because major US cities are ok with spending billions of dollars on convention centres and stadiums without maximizing the tax payer return.

Outdoor stadium is great, but those locations you mentioned aren't downtown and having it outdoors and open to the elements cuts back on a lot of revenue streams.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

Outdoor stadium is great, but those locations you mentioned aren't downtown and having it outdoors and open to the elements cuts back on a lot of revenue streams.

Then again on the other hand, you're basically spending hundreds of millions of dollars up front on a dome so that you can have a few extra $1 or 2M grossing concerts and sports events a year.

[Steveston]

Looking at those pics from the Canada-Switzerland game, it's hard to make the argument that the $$ spent renovating/rebuilding BC Place were wasted!

Honestly, looking at the stadium today, you'd never know that it was originally built in 1983. For all intents and purposes, it's a brand new stadium. And someone tell me how you'd get yourself a 54,000+ seat stadium, with a retractable roof, on a downtown site, for $528 million.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Richard Lipschitz

... well, which one is it?

Both posts were defending td place not sure what you're trying to get at? But to answer your question..It's a Great Stadium that suites the eastern CFL perfectly at a budget less than half of what other cities are paying. You cant tell me THF is twice as good as TD place just because the price tag was twice as much? It needs some more amenities yes. Is it the devil? God no Go pick on Calgary or Montreal

Originally Posted by king10

The concrete at THF isn't weathered and crumbling.

It's not crumbling. Get a grip. Pieces if the thin layer of concrete meant to blend the 2 slabs in the 70's is falling off. big deal theirs nothing structurally wrong with it. Put something to cover it and you wont even notice the tiny bit of weathering.

You guys are acting like this Stadium isn't acceptable and its kind of annoying

Remember the jewel of the CFL in 2010