Calgary International Airport II

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

.
They should think outside the box. YWG-LGW perhaps. Even YEG-LGW is a better idea than YYZ-LGW, now that AC is only 3 weekly and runs the risk of driving itself out of the market.

This. YWG airport authority would be over the moon. They desperately want (need?) to trumpet something to Winnipegers as the reason to have built their shiny new, underutilized terminal building. (Yes, we know it's that the old one was about as warm and welcoming as an oven at Auschwitz.) WS runs enough traffic through YWG that I can definitely see this working 3 or 4 weekly.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Cage

Also sending the widebodies to LGW puts a good sized stake through the heart of those who want WS to become a member of Oneworld. The Oneworld global hub is LHR

Not necessarily. BA has a hub operation at LGW as well, and the destinations offered from LGW suit WS's needs better, in my opinion. That is, holiday destinations.

BA flies to 60 or so destinations from LGW.

Plus with IAG soon acquiring a stake in EI, and therefore DUB possibly becoming a OW hub, it makes that much more sense for WS to end up in OW.

Originally Posted by Cage

My further prediction is that WS will become a member of Skyteam sometime in 2016.

not too sure. AF/KL expanding in western Canada is not good for WS and their 767s, if they decide to join skyteam.

So what, will WS be flying to AMS, CDG or FCO in the near future? Doesn't make much sense in terms of filling their 767s without a JV.

FCO, i could see happening (that is if AZ is still in skyteam by then). AMS or CDG, not so much. The Canada-AMS/CDG market is owned by AF/KL.

I think Oneworld makes more sense because of the huge O&D between Canada and the UK and because of BA.
YEG-LGW would tie in nicely as well with that scenario. WS let's BA operate YYC-LHR, and they tackle YEG-LGW and YWG-LGW, as an example.

Plus on the US side, a tie up with AA makes more sense than DL.

WS currently serves all the major hubs of AA, that is, LAX, ORD, DFW, JFK and MIA.
Not so complete when it comes to DL's hubs.

Plus OW will help fill their BC/Alberta-Hawaii flights, with passengers going to Australia. QF takes over from HNL to SYD.

The way i see it, Oneworld helps fill their 767s and 737s. Skyteam only helps fill their 737s.

Oneworld opens up Europe, Australia and Central/South America with the help of BA, QF and AA.

Skyteam can't match that. At least not in a way that will benefit WS's long haul ops.

[Canadian74]

There also CX and JAL at YVR for Asia. But if WS does go to oneworld, I don't think BA will stay at YYC. YYC-LHR would be better suited for WS than premium heavy BA, especially as the days of 767s are numbered. A lot of the traffic on this route is vfr, especially to India and a economy heavy WS 767 with a codeshare with BA on YYC-LHR and properly timed connections for LHR-DEL/BOM on BA could be successful.

However, iirc Westjet 767s won't have a proper J cabin, so I don't know if oneworld/BA will be happy.

[thenoflyzone]

Ultimately its an LCC joining a major alliance, so no one is going to be pleased with WS's J cabin, not even skyteam.

[YYCguys]

There seem to be lots of code share guests on WS flights and nobody seems to be too upset about there only being a PE section and no J cabin. I've not heard one guest complain to me anyways.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

There seem to be lots of code share guests on WS flights and nobody seems to be too upset about there only being a PE section and no J cabin. I've not heard one guest complain to me anyways.

Because they are only operating domestically right now. YYC-LHR will be 8+ hrs.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

But if WS does go to oneworld, I don't think BA will stay at YYC. YYC-LHR would be better suited for WS than premium heavy BA, especially as the days of 767s are numbered. A lot of the traffic on this route is vfr, especially to India and a economy heavy WS 767 with a codeshare with BA on YYC-LHR and properly timed connections for LHR-DEL/BOM on BA could be successful.

Would have to gate at T5 to make the onward connections attractive on BA. Right now only BA and IB gate at T5 so I don't see any chance WS would be allowed in there, especially if it resulted in BA having to pull out of YYC. In this circumstance being a part of Oneworld would not be enough as WS would need a full JV across the pond to make it attractive for BA to let them in their home terminal. Cross terminal connections are not fun, and I don't think India traffic will choose the 1/2 WestJet 1/2 BA routing if it means switching terminals. Most will stick to FRA and/or YYZ.

Also, typically BA's flights to Indian subcontinent ex YYC are priced higher than AC/LH/AI, but people know they are getting full British Airways service (which is still highly regarded among Commonweathers - if that is a word?). Indo-Calgarians will not pay this premium for 1/2 Westjet service.

LHR is honestly a non-starter, IMO, unless they become some sort of subsidery of British Airways (or have a strong JV) which allows them metal neutral flights. (not a bad idea, BA/WS JV would be a real threat to AC/LH!)

If WS were to join Oneworld, and stick to LGW would there be enough room for BA to stay serving LHR? Alliance or not it's still going to affect AC, TS and BA loads to London.

TBH I don't know how I feel about WS YYC-LGW, time will tell, I know it's good overall for YYC, even if that means we lose/reduce TS service, but I was hoping for something along the lines of what TS currently does, ie. serve 4-5 different European tourist destinations 1-2 days per week (Athens, Rome, Venice, etc.) instead of more daily/semi-daily flights to London, which is already saturated, but let's see what happens ... S16 will be interesting for sure!

[Bigtime]

Lisa Raitt has gone and done some stupid, the airplane noise complainers in the SW are going to love it.

[Policy Wonk]

I miss Toronto Port Authority Lisa Raitt who I pictured would just stand at the end of the YTZ runway with one middle finger pointed at Ward's Island and the other at the condos on Queens Quay.

[simster3]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Lisa Raitt has gone and done some stupid, the airplane noise complainers in the SW are going to love it.

My thoughts exactly. This is a joke.

[PPAR]

As it stands now, if you want to fly BA from YYC to a secondary European market (ie. Nice), BA will often require an inter airport transfer in London as LGW is the regional hub for them. Not many passengers are willing to go for this kind of routing, and so passengers end up going through AMS or FRA on a competitor instead. Having WS feed BA in Europe at LGW, and BA feed WS here seems like a nice deal, and a reason for WS to join Oneworld.
I currently see BA making money out of YYC by filling planes with both business passengers (Calgary remains a desirable corporate market) and Asia bound connectors, while WS to LGW would provide a whole new line of business for them. A final point is that BA now knows AC is gunning to lock up the Canadian International market, and they need some spoilers.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by PPAR

As it stands now, if you want to fly BA from YYC to a secondary European market (ie. Nice), BA will often require an inter airport transfer in London as LGW is the regional hub for them. Not many passengers are willing to go for this kind of routing, and so passengers end up going through AMS or FRA on a competitor instead. Having WS feed BA in Europe at LGW, and BA feed WS here seems like a nice deal, and a reason for WS to join Oneworld.
I currently see BA making money out of YYC by filling planes with both business passengers (Calgary remains a desirable corporate market) and Asia bound connectors, while WS to LGW would provide a whole new line of business for them. A final point is that BA now knows AC is gunning to lock up the Canadian International market, and they need some spoilers.

The biggest onward markets from YYC-Europe and beyond are easily connected at LHR for BA. Certainly there are some lesser markets that do require an airport change but this is really quite low in % terms of connecting pax.

BA making money out of YYC with "Asia bound connectors?" What do you mean?

WS out of YYC will have to contend with Air Transat as well as TS offers 3 weekly YYC-LGW flights seasonal in the summer. The YYC-UK market is split about 50/50 with pax originating from YYC and pax originating in the UK. Westjet would probably have very little exposure on the UK end at this point. Brand awareness is going to be very important in grabbing the UK side of traffic. Westjet certainly ain't no Wardair!!

If AC is gunning to lock up the Canadian International market, they better have a quick look at what is happening at YVR!

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

BA making money out of YYC with "Asia bound connectors?" What do you mean?

YYC to South Asia ( India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc) with connections at LHR.

[thegx]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

And so it begins.... Chapter One

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1000

Air Transat will be the most affected by far.

Will they launch YYC-LGW and YYZ-LGW? Perhaps YEG-LGW and YVR-LGW as well??

Let the speculation begin!!

Edit: youtube video announcing it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eH7VyZ-rQZQ

If they stick with this, I'd say no YYZ or YVR. Instead, YYC, YEG and YWG.

WestJet has not yet decided which Canadian cities it will fly out of but an executive hinted that it’s looking at smaller markets.

“If you go from some smaller centres — let’s say the fourth through the seventh or eighth largest cities in Canada — you would get a big stimulation factor from having a non-stop flight to London,” Bob Cummings, WestJet’s executive vice-president for commercial operations, said in an interview. “We’ve always had good success with the smaller centres.”

http://business.financialpost.com/news/t...u-k-as-international-expansion-takes-off

Originally Posted by thegx

“We’ve always had good success with the smaller centres.”

Hmm, that must be why they bailed on Hamilton and ran the table at YYZ. I don't like YWG-LGW's chances long term, nor do I like the chances of survival for AC's YEG-LHR once WS starts. An extra slot for double daily YYC-LHR is all that'll do.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by PPAR

YYC to South Asia ( India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc) with connections at LHR.

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by thegx

If they stick with this, I'd say no YYZ or YVR. Instead, YYC, YEG and YWG.



http://business.financialpost.com/news/t...u-k-as-international-expansion-takes-off

That is certainly one approach. Looking at Bob Cummings's statement... if we look at cities that do not have direct service to London right now... fourth largest through eighth for example... that leaves Winnipeg and Quebec City. Quebec City I just don't see happening... Even if we keep going down the largest cities list the next being Hamilton, London, Kitchener, St Catharines etc... I just don't see it happening.

It is actually very risky to assume a route will stimulate new traffic. I really hope they have good marketing info and stats to support that. Again, those markets are not significant to fill a relatively large plane even weekly. We are talking about 260 seats per plane here. Edmonton-UK is a lot larger than YWG-UK and even TS pulled its weekly flight and AC has reduced to seasonal thrice weekly on 211 seaters...

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Lisa Raitt has gone and done some stupid, the airplane noise complainers in the SW are going to love it.

How many hands can we get in the cookie jar?

Though I'm not really allowed to say this, I hope that whatever changes (to our ops) are coming down the pipeline as a result of this^ leads to a few drawbacks....

-makes ATC's job more difficult.
-more difficult = more short-staffed than we already are i.e. can't successfully train/entice more people.
-directly leads to otherwise inexplicable delays (something we've hardly experienced since the new runway opened, hence the reason it was built)
-airlines start to complain (since they're the ones who actually paid for the extra pavement
-YYC loses some peak hour flights due to imposed systemic overcapacity
-airport authority grows a pair when they see that the friendly neighborhood noise lobby is hindering their billion dollar business.

...and then I wake up, and am quickly reminded that none of this will ultimately matter and we'll all just keep on keeping on.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

How many hands can we get in the cookie jar?

Though I'm not really allowed to say this, I hope that whatever changes (to our ops) are coming down the pipeline as a result of this^ leads to a few drawbacks....

-makes ATC's job more difficult.
-more difficult = more short-staffed than we already are i.e. can't successfully train/entice more people.
-directly leads to otherwise inexplicable delays (something we've hardly experienced since the new runway opened, hence the reason it was built)
-airlines start to complain (since they're the ones who actually paid for the extra pavement
-YYC loses some peak hour flights due to imposed systemic overcapacity
-airport authority grows a pair when they see that the friendly neighborhood noise lobby is hindering their billion dollar business.

...and then I wake up, and am quickly reminded that none of this will ultimately matter and we'll all just keep on keeping on.

The stupid part of this is that I've lived within spitting distance of the flight path and the threshold of 36L for various periods of time totalling 20 years and not once can I recall a plane disrupting something other than me being 'Oh look there's a plane'. Included in that time was a year nearly directly in line with the center line of 36L.

People like to complain and unfortunately the government and the media give them platforms to make noise.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Quebec City I just don't see happening...
.

YQB-LGW, no.

YQB-CDG, yes. But it will be hard. TS flies that route 4x weekly in the peak of summer.