Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[s.p.hansen]

What I'm curious about is of all the drama queens who seem concerned for the future here, who here actually participated in the Envision Utah survey that will help influence policy for the next 10 years?

What can you tell me about the Quaking Aspen Plan vs. the Segolilly Plan?

For those of you complaining about air quality here and the future, do you know what our projected air quality is going to be like according to the least invested stay the course path for Utah as outlined by Envision Utah?

Just curious. I mean I know a lot of you don't take pictures for us here, I'm just wondering if you're at least participating in shaping policy in your city and state. Since you're so invested living here...

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by brankrom

There are reasons that people don't want to move here or live here and some large corporations have said as much citing the anti gay bigotry, uber conservative politics, and poor air quality.

You know how I know that you don't get out much? Salt Lake is about the gayest town this side of San Fran. It is the number one city in America for gay families with children. We have the 2nd largest pride parade in the country. I know I'll be marching around as I have for a decade. Your straw-man Mormon arguments hold no sway either. I'm not a Mormon (not like that even matters). I'm just sick of hearing your argument from people. It's a rehash of dinner table arguments in the 80's. Whether you want to admit it or not, our city has changed a lot. Jump on the bandwagon or jump off. It matters little to me.

[scottharding]

I did the Envision Utah survey. I'm glad they sought public input, but man, the way they put it together was stupid. Still, did it.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

What I'm curious about is of all the drama queens who seem concerned for the future here, who here actually participated in the Envision Utah survey that will help influence policy for the next 10 years?

What can you tell me about the Quaking Aspen Plan vs. the Segolilly Plan?

For those of you complaining about air quality here and the future, do you know what our projected air quality is going to be like according to the least invested stay the course path for Utah as outlined by Envision Utah?

Just curious. I mean I know a lot of you don't take pictures for us here, I'm just wondering if you're at least participating in shaping policy in your city and state. Since you're so invested living here...

I did the original Envision Utah survey back in elementary school. I remember it well - at least, I think it was in elementary. I've done it over the years, too, but I also put my vote and action where my mouth is - I advocate, give money to groups that support what I want my city to look like and all that junk.

[ToysNoiz]

Nevermind..

[UTPlanner]

I've lived in SLC; I've lived in other various cities. In general, people like to complain about where they live. A great example is that nearly everywhere I've ever lived claimed they had the WORST drivers. There are positive and negative aspects about living anywhere. I try to focus my efforts on the positive elements and strive to make changes to those negative elements that I believe are a detriment to society. I do not think pointing fingers on a forum like this helps to improve the negative elements of SLC or Utah as a whole.

On the development side of things, Cowboy Partners is moving forward with yet another multi-family residential project in SLC. They have submitted plans for a building on the north side of 500 South just east of the Smith's gas station and the Ensign Floral building. The plans are a bit drab but it is in a historic district so the city actually has some sway about the design.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

I've lived in SLC; I've lived in other various cities. In general, people like to complain about where they live. A great example is that nearly everywhere I've ever lived claimed they had the WORST drivers.

I was thinking of that same analogy. It's funny that (almost) no one says "I am the worst driver" -- it's always everyone else on the road. But yeah. My Boston friends call them "Mass-holes" (Massachusetts), I've heard people here call them "Utards."

We're quick to point fingers, to draw lines in the sand, to put up walls...truthfully I think we have a lot more in common in our love of Salt Lake City and Utah in general than it appears sometimes. I mean, we choose to live here. We want to see it improve. Even there, I see more commonalities than differences.

Then again, it smells like there may be a chemical leak in my building just now, so it may be the fumes.

[sock puppet]

Any news on the development surrounding the Marmalade library? If I recall correctly the next phase to start should be the housing directly east of the library.

Also, what's the expected completion date of the development directly to the west of West High School? They've finally been able to get back to work since the rain has stopped. May was a slow month for them.

[JMK]

Not SLC, but the renderings for Omni's 600 room hotel in Louisville, KY were unveiled (Also includes 225 residential units and an urban market). Hopefully we hear of something for SLC soon.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/29230957/images-details-of-omni-development-unveiled

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by JMK

Not SLC, but the renderings for Omni's 600 room hotel in Louisville, KY were unveiled (Also includes 225 residential units and an urban market). Hopefully we hear of something for SLC soon.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/29230957/images-details-of-omni-development-unveiled

Could explain the delay on our end. Omni has been a very busy entity as of late. Seems like they have the whole convention center thing cornered.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by Marvland

You know how I know that you don't get out much? Salt Lake is about the gayest town this side of San Fran. It is the number one city in America for gay families with children. We have the 2nd largest pride parade in the country. I know I'll be marching around as I have for a decade. Your straw-man Mormon arguments hold no sway either. I'm not a Mormon (not like that even matters). I'm just sick of hearing your argument from people. It's a rehash of dinner table arguments in the 80's. Whether you want to admit it or not, our city has changed a lot. Jump on the bandwagon or jump off. It matters little to me.

Someone needs to get the word out to the rest of the country. Based upon just about every conversation I've ever had with anyone regarding Utah/SLC, it's still regarded as "that weird Mormon place". And even though I'm far more enlightened about SLC's growing up, because I'm from the Mountain West region, and because I visit relatives in Sandy every few years, even I would have serious qualms about relocating there. No, the SLC region is no longer so backwards (to use a stereotypical derogatory term that doesn't necessarily reflect my personal opinion), but it does still have a very tangible, odd feel to it because of the overbearing presence of the Mormon church. I sometimes forget the initialism LDS exists until I visit my (for the most part non-Mormon) relatives in Sandy and hear it sprinkled into every conversation about local culture or politics.

In terms of Salt Lake's limited emigration-generated growth (which I believe is the topic that spawned this conversation) I would have to think that the region's reputation as "that weird Mormon place" is one of the biggest factors, if not the biggest factor preventing people from locating there. If I'm an officer at a corporation considering relocating to Salt Lake City, I have to be concerned about what my employees are going to think about moving to Mormon Town.

(On a side note, I have a hard time believing SLC's pride fest is the second largest in the country. I can't see it being larger than say Miami Beach or NYC, or even the presumably relatively small one here in San Diego which still attracts a couple hundred thousand attendees.)

[delts145]

Originally Posted by JMK

Not SLC, but the renderings for Omni's 600 room hotel in Louisville, KY were unveiled (Also includes 225 residential units and an urban market). Hopefully we hear of something for SLC soon.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/29230957/images-details-of-omni-development-unveiled

From some of the angles it's pretty cool looking. Interesting that it will also have the 225 residential units, but only 600 hotel rooms, also a grocery store. I'm wondering if we're pushing for any residential units for Salt Lake City. Makid, have you heard anything regarding residential units to possibly be included? Residential was also an important inclusion in the new Marriott CCH here in L.A.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

(On a side note, I have a hard time believing SLC's pride fest is the second largest in the country. I can't see it being larger than say Miami Beach or NYC, or even the presumably relatively small one here in San Diego which still attracts a couple hundred thousand attendees.)

Good point. That info used to be posted on Utah Pride's website but I'm sure you're right. I was in Houston during pride a few years back and it was massive. I do know that it is huge for our market size. Our gay community is active, powerful and influential and has been a massive driver for our food, beverage and arts scenes for decades. SLC is usually in the top of advocate's yearly ratings:

http://www.advocate.com/travel/2012/01/09/gayest-cities-america-2012?page=full

[Makid]

Originally Posted by delts145

From some of the angles it's pretty cool looking. Interesting that it will also have the 225 residential units, but only 600 hotel rooms, also a grocery store. I'm wondering if we're pushing for any residential units for Salt Lake City. Makid, have you heard anything regarding residential units to possibly be included? Residential was also an important inclusion in the new Marriott CCH here in L.A.

I haven't heard any news in a while. I am pretty sure it was UTPlanner that stated that the City was wanting to include residential in the CCH project.

I am hopeful that we will all hear something soon. The KY hotel is I think 3 months ahead of SLC in progress but I still think we should hear something soon.

[brankrom]

Pretty sure Utah pride bills itself as the second largest parade in Utah behind the annual church PR parade on the 24th of July that wouldn't even allow "Mormons Building Bridges" (a lgbtq friendly group of believing mormons) to participate. It's a private organization they can do what they want but they don't get out of criticism.

I do get out a fair bit, I've been to 4 major mets for a total of 2 weeks in the last 3 months Chicago, L.A., Portland and PHX I'll be in NYC for a week in July and Vegas for a week in August. In none of those areas was there a daily announcement about what stance the general population or governing party should have regarding liquor laws, equal rights, or political power from any particular corporation. Can't say that about here because every day is filled with some announcement or proclamation about some political issue and how it relates to a particular corporation.

Just today there's an article in the trib:

Called to serve and seek election? Utah party sees way to get Mormons in office
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2585034-155/called-to-serve-and-seek-election

Because you know... if any group is underrepresented in Utah government it's mormons.


As I mentioned in a previous post Utah has been good to me and there's a lot to like. I live in a nice neighborhood in Yalecrest with a good job I live the typical colloquial white middle class lifestyle. I have two kids a garden ride the bus to work and get out into the mountains to hike and float at least 2 float trips a year. Years ago when first moved to Utah I lived in one of the worst communities in Utah with regards to smart growth, even though the initial vision behind the area was based on new-urbanism in practice it was exurban hell hole that I called home for 6 years. The ex urb hell hole I'm describing is Eagle Mountain. During my time there I served on the board of adjustments, planning commission and finally a member of the city council with my committee assignments being the liaison for our MAG membership so I attended a ton of MAG meetings. I was also the liaison for Envision Utah so I attended the annual meetings for EU (so yes I do fill out the EU surveys) and finally I was the liaison between EM City and UTA a pushed hard to get bus service to Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain. That service to EM and SS wasn't installed until after I got the hell out of there, but I'm proud of what I accomplished regardless of how much I now believe that area should have never been developed. That place was a horrible mix of religion, politics and uber conservative nuttery truly a microcosm of Utah culture. I mean that place drove a good friend of mine who was a city council colleague of mine to commit suicide in his ultrlight and one of the mayors to run away to Barstow and then claim he was kidnapped by terrorists. So pardon me if I exhibit some PTSD about Utah culture. FWIW living in SLC has greatly improved the way I feel about Utah and my life generally, but there are many who are negatively affected by the ruling class in this state.

The point of all this to outline my marginal development and planning cred is to point out and be honest about how I feel about living in Utah and how others may feel about relocating here. There's a fair bit good going for Utah, but with that good comes a pile of social, cultural and political baggage which in my experience outweighs the good. But the overall point is until people are willing to acknowledge that the cultural elements DO affect development and growth and those social and cultural factors do make outsiders feel marginalized it will still continue to be an issue. I could be superficial and always claim everything is grand and living in Utah is perfect in every way but its just not the truth, and quite frankly the sit down and shut up or GTFO attitude is one of the symptoms of the larger cultural issues at play.

So sorry to have offended the tender sensibilities of forum members by offering a opinion differing from the Approved Correlated PR Program For How Great Utah Is® . Carry on.

[UTPlanner]

I had not heard anything about a residential component included or required with the CCH.

Regarding the development near the Marmalade library. It is definitely lagging. The developer that was selected to develop a large portion of the site is moving at a snail's pace at the moment. He does have a lot of stuff on his plate at the moment but I would love to see something move forward there. He has not even submitted drawings for approval. The townhome project just east of the library will begin construction in the next few months.

Regarding the multi-family development on 400 West, the project nearly has their building permit. At the moment they just have a permit for demolition and site work. Real construction should commence shortly.

[DMTower]

I wish this forum had "LIKE" buttons for posts. Almost daily I find myself searching for it in response to various posts before realizing there isn't one.

Bankrom has made some valid points about Utah culture, and the people who are getting so offended can't seem to make the distinction between criticizing a local organization's influence on that culture, and criticizing that organization's core beliefs. Many of the points he made have contributed to my decision to move to Los Angeles this past year. My family are all active Mormons, we get along great, and I have no problem with them practicing their faith. Growing up though, I remember a catholic kid in my neighborhood who none of the neighborhood kids would play with. Their parents wouldn't allow them to. I was one of his only friends in the neighborhood, and I remember my mother would voice concern every time she heard I had been hanging out with him. No, their churches aren't telling them to do this, but culturally the members have developed some bad habits that reflect badly on them and the state they hold a majority in.

I don't understand people leaving because they read something that offends them. This is the age of the internet. People are posting things all over social media, forums, etc that are offensive to one person or another. Sure, voice your counter opinion, call them out, ignore them, whatever—but leaving is pretty childish.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I don't understand people leaving because they read something that offends them. This is the age of the internet. People are posting things all over social media, forums, etc that are offensive to one person or another. Sure, voice your counter opinion, call them out, ignore them, whatever—but leaving is pretty childish.

The forum eco system works like this:

A: There are people who are good at finding out information or have an inside scoop.

B: There are people who take photos and make renderings or drawings.

C: There are people who talk about the future or bitch about the culture here.

I remember when I used to take a lot more pics and when other people did too. I also remember them getting pushed off a page in one day because of people making the content here a replica of the SL Tribune Comments Section. It's not offensive it's just lame. People are less likely to contribute when group C is the majority of the content here.

Original content is pretty cool; the same old shit about how shitty we all know the department of alcohol is is boring.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

Original content is pretty cool; the same old shit about how shitty we all know the department of alcohol is is boring.

Amen. And I say that as a person whose income is almost entirely dependent on booze in one way or another. Yeah it sucks. Yada yada, Mormons, blah blah, yawn, barf.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

People are less likely to contribute when group C is the majority of the content here.

This seems like a "chicken or the egg" situation to me. Is there less content because people like to bitch, or is there more bitching because there is less content to discuss. There used to be a LOT more daily picture updates to keep us occupied. Now, it's much less frequent. I tried to do my part with pictures until photobucket capped the views for my free account.