Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[SL,UT]

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

Random thought I have had and I thought I would share it. This is simply my opinion, whether you agree with it or not, I don't care.

So I have come to realization that the Wasatch Front area is similar to So Cal, specifically the metro area of L.A., more then anyone has ever realized. Everything from the freeway set-up, airports, geography (with the exception of the Pacific Ocean, the beaches, and climate, OBVIOUSLY), demographic layout, etc. Now I will elaborate. You have to remember with this comparison, it is similar, but the Wasatch Front is on a much smaller scale, hopefully that makes sense.

The So Cal area is so spread out from San Clemente up to the San Fernado Valley and all the way over to the Inland Empire. It reminds me how spread out the Wasatch Front is in layout. Everything from the Cottonwood Heights/Sandy area all the way down to the American Fork area is similar in demographics and geography to the areas that include Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa, Newport, Laguna Beach, and all the way to San Clemente. Cottonwood Heights and Sandy especially have a similar feel to Yorba Linda and Diamond Bar.

When it comes to airports, the Salt Lake airport serves the main Salt Lake metro area similar to how LAX is the main airport and how it serves most of the area. LAX still grabs the catchment areas of Orange County, San Fernado Valley, and the Inland Empire, but the Orange County airport serves that area similar to how the Provo airport is the commercial airport in the southern portion of the Wasatch Front. The Ogden airport reminds me of the Burbank airport. Like the Burbank airport, the Ogden airport is the smallest of the metro areas commercial airports, and they both serve as the commercial airport to the northen part of the metro area. The San Fernado Valley area is nice, but it's not as nice as the Orange County area, simliar to how the Davis-Weber area is to Utah County. Currently, there are five airlines that fly between Salt Lake and LAX, they are Alaska, American, Delta, Southwest, and United (I think that is one of the highest number of airline carriers flying between two airports in the US). Allegiant Air flies between Provo and LAX. JetBlue and Delta fly between Salt Lake and Long Beach. Delta also has nonstop flights from Salt Lake to the other LA area airports of Ontario, Burbank, and Orange County.

If you have ever driven on the freeways throughout the Inland Empire and all through the LA area, especially in Rancho Cucamongo, Ontario, and Corona, and down to Orange County, the freeway system, the feel, and layout is very similar to driving on the 15 in the suburbs of the Wasatch Front. They both have a similar express lanes, and even the signage on the freeways and sound walls (if that makes sense) next to the freeways are similar in style. Also when driving on the freeways in So Cal and the Wasatch Front, it feels as if the suburbs go on forever.

Where the University of Utah is located reminds me of the area of where UCLA is located. UCLA is a little higher in elevation than LA, similar to how the U of Utah is to Salt Lake City. They both offer great views of their cities that they are located in. UCLA is very close to the nice LA neighborhoods of Beverly Hills and Bel-Air, similar to how Utah is close to the Avenues neighborhood. Both universities are up against the mountain side as well.

On an extremely smaller scale, downtown LA and Salt Lake City have similar feels as well. I don't know how to describe this comparison in words, you just have to experience it in person to know what I am referring to. Some of the shopping centers in the Wasatch Front area have a very similar So Cal feel to them as well, espcially the Gateway (when it was in its prime), Fashion Place mall, the District in South Jordan, and that shopping center in Draper.

The west side of the Salt Lake valley area that is Magna, West Valley, Kearns, and Taylorsville, feels similar in demographics to the ares of Long Beach, Inglewood, Gardena, Hawthorne, and Carson. This area of So Cal might have a lower income rate and more diversity but I think this area of the Salt Lake valley offers the closest feel to this area of LA.

There is also a decent size of mormons and their temples in each area as well. Hopefully parts of this comparison made sense to some of you. Mahalo.

I think I have to disagree with you. Smell A is nothing like the Wasatch front. The traffic in LA is comparable to getting kidney stones, The burbs really do go on forever in LA with no end in sight. At least here, you get some farmland as you drive further out which I like. You Can't even see the Mountains in LA because of all the smog. We have bad smog, but at least it is only during the winter months and not all the freaking time. The roads and freeways haven't been resurfaced or maintained since the 60's. The cost of living is atrocious. The wealth gap is probably the worst in all of the country. The City and state I might add are very poorly managed. And it is only a matter of time before all the water dries up. Just look at Lake Mead.

[DMTower]

I've noticed a lot of similarities between LA and SLC during the time I've lived here. The development patterns are very similar, although SL is on a much smaller scale.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I've noticed a lot of similarities between LA and SLC during the time I've lived here. The development patterns are very similar, although SL is on a much smaller scale.

My point is exactly that.

[delts145]

I've lost count how many times over the past few years I've pointed the similarities out. What has always struck me the most though is the topographical similarities. The way the ocean and mountains hem in the San Fernando Valley and L.A. Basin is much the same as the way the mountains and lakes hem in the Wasatch. Many development patterns such as Wilshire Blvd. and it's surrounding cities now, and the way State and it's surrounding cities are developing are strikingly similar, including the hill, bench, mountain and water boundaries.

Just a few points of polite perspective for SL,UT. Los Angeles is many things. Each of it's many representations are typically larger than most average cities. Los Angeles goes on seemingly forever because it has roughly 18-plus million people within it's greater metro. Central L.A. is huge, not as dense as Manhattan, but still very densly packed. It is full of large islands of beautiful historic neighborhoods, which are well maintained. I can access canyons, hills, mountains and countryside within very little time driving in most directions. I often spend time in the country to the north on shoots, where we are surrounded by hills and mountains, which are very similar to the landscape in the Interior West. I then return home (Downtown) in the evening within 45 minutes. No, the mountain landscape is not quite as dramatic or beautiful immediately around L.A. as say the Cottonwoods, American Fork Canyons or immediate Wasatch in general, but the topographical landscape within immediate proximity of Central L.A. is more attractive than most major cities, including Denver. Last week I spent some time in San Juan Capistrano/Dana Point. It was less than an hour south, very beautiful, and the countryside was abundant everywhere.

Of course, with a city as large as L.A. you're going to have large areas that are dicey. However, those areas are in no way nearly as out of control as say too many to number smaller Eastern or Midwestern city's such as Chicago, St. Louis or a Baltimore.

Anyway, I could go on and on about the many points of living in L.A. There are definitely negatives, but also a lot of positives.

One point that should be made. There are very few days when I cannot see the Hollywood Hills or San Gabriel Mountains from my house downtown. Sometimes it takes until the afternoon for the Pacific Marine Layer to burn off, but very rarely have I felt that Central L.A. or the Valley is too smoggy. It is noticeably cleaner than it was when I was a child. Certain areas, such as San Bernardino and the Harbor have a ways to go, but most areas have made vast improvements over the years.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Originally Posted by delts145

I've lost count how many times over the past few years I've pointed the similarities out. What has always struck me the most though is the topographical similarities. The way the ocean and mountains hem in the San Fernando Valley and L.A. Basin is much the same as the way the mountains and lakes hem in the Wasatch. Many development patterns such as Wilshire Blvd. and it's surrounding cities now, and the way State and it's surrounding cities are developing are strikingly similar, including the hill, bench, mountain and water boundaries.

Just a few points of polite perspective for SL,UT. Los Angeles is many things. Each of it's many representations are typically larger than most average cities. Los Angeles goes on seemingly forever because it has roughly 18-plus million people within it's greater metro. Central L.A. is huge, not as dense as Manhattan, but still very densly packed. It is full of large islands of beautiful historic neighborhoods, which are well maintained. I can access canyons, hills, mountains and countryside within very little time driving in most directions. I often spend time in the country to the north on shoots, where we are surrounded by hills and mountains, which are very similar to the landscape in the Interior West. I then return home (Downtown) in the evening within 45 minutes. No, the mountain landscape is not quite as dramatic or beautiful immediately around L.A. as say the Cottonwoods, American Fork Canyons or immediate Wasatch in general, but the topographical landscape within immediate proximity of Central L.A. is more attractive than most major cities, including Denver. Last week I spent some time in San Juan Capistrano/Dana Point. It was less than an hour south, very beautiful, and the countryside was abundant everywhere.

Of course, with a city as large as L.A. you're going to have large areas that are dicey. However, those areas are in no way nearly as out of control as say too many to number smaller Eastern or Midwestern city's such as Chicago, St. Louis or a Baltimore.

Anyway, I could go on and on about the many points of living in L.A. There are definitely negatives, but also a lot of positives.

One point that should be made. There are very few days when I cannot see the Hollywood Hills or San Gabriel Mountains from my house downtown. Sometimes it takes until the afternoon for the Pacific Marine Layer to burn off, but very rarely have I felt that Central L.A. or the Valley is too smoggy. It is noticeably cleaner than it was when I was a child. Certain areas, such as San Bernardino and the Harbor have a ways to go, but most areas have made vast improvements over the years.

Mahalo Delts145 for that insight that coincides exactly with my thoughts. LA like you said, has positives and negatives, like any city. But I find that the positives definitely outweigh the negatives of the area.

[UTPlanner]

Hotels seem to be a popular discussion for developers over the last few weeks. I cannot say exactly where but two groups have been meeting with the city about building hotels. One is near Gallivan Center and the other is looking at refurbishing a historic building downtown as a boutique hotel. Obviously, these are just conversations at the moment.

Also, at least 3 more hotels are planned for the International Center. I'm not quite sure why people stay there when downtown SLC is so close to the airport.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

Hotels seem to be a popular discussion for developers over the last few weeks. I cannot say exactly where but two groups have been meeting with the city about building hotels. One is near Gallivan Center and the other is looking at refurbishing a historic building downtown as a boutique hotel. Obviously, these are just conversations at the moment.

Also, at least 3 more hotels are planned for the International Center. I'm not quite sure why people stay there when downtown SLC is so close to the airport.

I've wondered the same thing about the International Center--I'd hate to come into town for a conference and have it hosted out there. Ridiculous.

And interesting about the Gallivan and boutique hotels...I'd be happy to see either happen. Also a frigging CCH.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

Hotels seem to be a popular discussion for developers over the last few weeks. I cannot say exactly where but two groups have been meeting with the city about building hotels. One is near Gallivan Center and the other is looking at refurbishing a historic building downtown as a boutique hotel. Obviously, these are just conversations at the moment.

Also, at least 3 more hotels are planned for the International Center. I'm not quite sure why people stay there when downtown SLC is so close to the airport.

I heard that the one by the Gallivan Center is all but finalized. When that information becomes public I'll write up a post. There also might be a hotel behind the Holiday Inn (former Shilo Inn).

[asies1981]

Photo update of the Element31 Apartments. I love how these wrap around the office tower, it is a good use of space.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by asies1981

I heard that the one by the Gallivan Center is all but finalized. .

Hmmm. Near the Galivan Center.... as in directly north...

I'm in One Utah so I can't think of anyplace else on the block that has room for a hotel

[UTPlanner]

asies1981, I had forgotten about the one near the existing Holiday Inn. The owner of the property is consolidating properties to move forward with that plan. I've heard it's a Marriott brand project but that is it.

I'm also glad that you have heard about a hotel near Gallivan. I have only heard/read some unsubstantiated rumors. Could be a fantastic project.

Sorry to be coy but I promise this is not a silly project update I made up to get attention or is it...

[Merewether]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

...the other is looking at refurbishing a historic building downtown as a boutique hotel.

The floor is open for nominations.


I have a hazy memory of a tour of Exchange Place years ago where someone mentioned the idea of a boutique hotel in the building with a colonnade on top which is opposite the old Stock Exchange.
I know nothing of the building although the exterior seems pleasant. The location seems ideal...close to lots of restaurants, entertainment and transit and not very far from Convention Center, shopping and Temple Square. Could get all the lawyerly visits.

My other nomination was the old Public Safety Building but it is just a block too far. Turn it into condos.

[Comrade]

The biggest difference between LA and Salt Lake (besides population, night life, activity, importance...) is that while LA is vast and what we consider sprawl, it's still infinitely more urban, miles and miles from downtown Los Angeles, on the whole, than SLC is just a mile or two from its city core.

The Watts neighborhood is 12 miles south of downtown LA and roughly has the same housing stock of most SLC's inner-city neighborhood. You go five miles south of downtown here and you're already hitting suburban sprawl. I know we knock LA for its driver-centric neighborhoods, but I'd love for SLC to be half as urban all around.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The biggest difference between LA and Salt Lake (besides population, night life, activity, importance...) is that while LA is vast and what we consider sprawl, it's still infinitely more urban, miles and miles from downtown Los Angeles, on the whole, than SLC is just a mile or two from its city core.

The Watts neighborhood is 12 miles south of downtown LA and roughly has the same housing stock of most SLC's inner-city neighborhood. You go five miles south of downtown here and you're already hitting suburban sprawl. I know we knock LA for its driver-centric neighborhoods, but I'd love for SLC to be half as urban all around.

I think that's just a natural extension of how huge L.A. is. Of course it's going to be more urban for a longer distance if it's 15 times the size. LA also has infinitely more sprawl than Salt Lake as well. Like somebody said, it just feels like it goes on for literally forever.

One area that Salt Lake City has a leg up on L.A. though is public transit.

[EPdesign]

I hope the hotel by the gallivan is a good height. If it's on the Utah World trade center site then I hope it's over 300 feet.I'd like to see the new tallest go there but If not,It at least something taller than 12 stories

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

I hope the hotel by the gallivan is a good height. If it's on the Utah World trade center site then I hope it's over 300 feet.I'd like to see the new tallest go there but If not,It at least something taller than 12 stories

That is to say, yes. I concur. Please.

With the LA/SLC comparisons, I can definitely see the similarities in geography and structure and sprawl...it's difficult to make many comparisons when the SLC metro is around 1 million (plus if you include more of the Wasatch Front), and the LA metro is around 10 million (18 if you include the greater LA area). Those numbers are going to make any comparisons a little out of whack.

I do see both cities trying to cope with similar issues, and SLC making some of the same mistakes made with poor planning in the LA area, but hopefully avoiding some as well. I always hoped we'd be able to avoid the bland stucco sprawls connected by freeways, but going from Ogden to Provo, we've pretty much followed in their footsteps. Which implies they were walkable communities. We followed in their...tire treads? Road ruts? Skid marks?

[Marvland]

The Peery Hotel just traded last week. It had been in receivership for over a year and under contract for six months. I've spoken to the new owners and they have plans to pump millions into improvements and land some major F&B action in the ground level retail spaces. They are a very experienced hotel turn-around operation and have done beautiful work in Phoenix and LA.

[jedikermit]

What's "F&B action"? I'm only thinking of dirty acronyms, and even those aren't working.

[billbillbillbill]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

What's "F&B action"? I'm only thinking of dirty acronyms, and even those aren't working.

My guess is food and beverage.

The Peery is in such a great location. Hope they are successful with their updates. Did an anniversary trip there several years ago and was less than impressed.

[asies1981]

Granary Row returns next week. There is rumored to be a development announcement for the Granary in July.