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  #3961  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 7:38 PM
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  #3962  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 7:52 PM
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A lot of that is just rhetoric, she knows better. (Every street should be a "complete street" too, for example, I've heard that plenty.) There's some good stuff in there, though. I would support mandatory design review.
     
     
  #3963  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ View Post
http://insiderealestatenews.com/2015/05/...ke-denver-a-world-class-city/#more-38667

Except for the part about walkability and connecting downtown to Cherry Creek, the rest is awful.
Certainly she has a myopic, deja vu set of ideas for the city, especially relative to development. But beyond development the rest is fine. Much of it is things the city is already pursuing.

There's even some Quite Good. My favorite or certainly most intriguing is this idea:
Quote:
Policy three: Denver will work to strengthen our uniquely creative and artistic city. The image or “brand” for Denver should be... filled with artists and cowboys.

The cowboy story is the greatest myth the world has ever known. We should do everything we can to underscore Denver as a cow town. Market the stock show worldwide, advertise our cowboy bars, and promote our cowboy poetry readings and western wear shops.
There's also this:
Quote:
We should host every Friday night an evening of open art galleries and artists’ studios. ...let’s have a dozen limousines or vans connect these venues with guides on board that can explain the art.

Rice University professors do this in Houston. It’s a big hit.
Few thoughts.

Good grief, it's not like Denver has been asleep. In fact they have a rather full plate. They've done a great job of promoting various events like Taste of Colorado, the Capitol Hill People's Fair and various art events around the city like the Cherry Creek Arts Festival. Haven't they copied Phoenix with some type of First Friday art walk? There's also a number of other festivals and parades.

I am intrigued by the Cowboy themed idea however. There may be some potential here, especially in conjunction with the National Western Stock Show redo project. It's actually something that the whole region could get involved in, perhaps over the summer months. Golden, Arvada, Litteton, most of the cities have a western, cowboy history of some sort. It might be a concept that the region could promote for tourism as well as local fun.

I've even wondered if the site of the stock show redo etc couldn't also be an area for entertainment including the likes of bowling, roller rinks, an arcade, cowboy bars and dancing, etc.
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Last edited by TakeFive; May 11, 2015 at 8:41 PM.
     
     
  #3964  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

I've even wondered if the site of the stock show redo etc couldn't also be an area for entertainment including the likes of bowling, roller rinks, an arcade, cowboy bars and dancing, etc.
and don't forget some roller derby as well.......

     
     
  #3965  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I am intrigued by the Cowboy themed idea however. There may be some potential here, especially in conjunction with the National Western Stock Show redo project. It's actually something that the whole region could get involved in, perhaps over the summer months. Golden, Arvada, Litteton, most of the cities have a western, cowboy history of some sort. It might be a concept that the region could promote for tourism as well as local fun..
I don’t know. I think that would certainly encourage tourism, but I think it might also scare away millennials that might otherwise consider living in Denver. Young people don’t want to live in a place that’s perceived as a cow town. When I was in my twenties living in Denver (not too long ago) I lived downtown for the sake of being someplace urban (which is apparently the way of the millennial if I am to believe the pervasive narrative about them). I and my urban Denverite friends were regularly defending Denver any time we visited either coast. People had a hard time believing Denverites could be at all urbane. Denver was a cow town and a Denverite was a redneck. I’m sure most of you have had similar experiences. We don’t want to do anything to augment Denver’s cow town image IMO.

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cowboy bars
     
     
  #3966  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 9:44 PM
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I think there's a distinction though between being a "Cowtown" and being a "Cowboy Town"; the former meaning the town is backwards and redneck, and the latter meaning that the town has a western/cowboy heritage (which it does!). These two things are not necessarily contradictory, and in my opinion there IS something romantic about the old west, which is something Denver can absolutely lay claim to.
     
     
  #3967  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Serious request: distinguish cowboy towns such as Dallas from Denver. Only use cowboy branding.

Honestly I'm ambivalent to the whole cowboy town branding. How many different ways can we brand Denver and the region? Cowboys. (Heartbroken and frustrated) sports town. Year round outdoor paradise. Beer heaven. Pot heaven. Those items make us a unique cowboy town and if be hesitant to focus on one specific element like Cowboys when we're a lot more than that. To makes us feel like a copycat when we just look at 1 thing.
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  #3968  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:18 PM
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"Cowboy" Denver?

Sorry, but I think that's so manufactured. I'm 53, was born and raised here. I've never known a "cowboy" in Denver and, outside of stockshow week, rarely even see anyone who would remotely fit that description in this city.

Denver stopped being a "cowboy" town probably 80 years ago or more. Any pretensions otherwise would strike most visitors as fake.

Most people already think of Denver as the Rocky Mountains city, even though it is actually perched at the foot of the mountains.

We should go with, and be happy with that!
     
     
  #3969  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Sorry, but I think that's so manufactured. I'm 53, was born and raised here. I've never known a "cowboy" in Denver and, outside of stockshow week, rarely even see anyone who would remotely fit that description in this city.

Denver stopped being a "cowboy" town probably 80 years ago or more. Any pretensions otherwise would strike most visitors as fake.

Most people already think of Denver as the Rocky Mountains city, even though it is actually perched at the foot of the mountains.

We should go with, and be happy with that!
I couldn't agree more.

I think people from outside Colorado view Denver as the country's biggest city "in" the mountains. Most realize it's on the edge of the Rockies, but still...
That whole cowtown thing doesn't really exist outside of Colorado as far as I can tell.
     
     
  #3970  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
I don’t know. I think that would certainly encourage tourism, but I think it might also scare away millennials that might otherwise consider living in Denver. Young people don’t want to live in a place that’s perceived as a cow town. ... We don’t want to do anything to augment Denver’s cow town image IMO.
Don't forget about me. I'm still here and cooking as much as ever.

denver.eater.com
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Denver’s original steakhouse, The Buckhorn Exchange is located in the city’s oldest neighborhood, just 5-minutes from downtown Denver -- with a light-rail stop right across the street. This National Historic Landmark and Western Museum has been serving the finest in Old West fare since 1893.
I'll agree with you generally though. The "Cowtown" moniker that Ms. Schlosser may use affectionately is best left in the old western dustbin.

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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I think there's a distinction though between being a "Cowtown" and being a "Cowboy Town"; the former meaning the town is backwards and redneck, and the latter meaning that the town has a western/cowboy heritage (which it does!). These two things are not necessarily contradictory, and in my opinion there IS something romantic about the old west, which is something Denver can absolutely lay claim to.
Very nicely said.

Her all-encompassing vision is definitely way too much. But I could maybe see a one week/weekend themed city event ending with a blowout party of some sort. Elitch Gardens could easily do some western themed stuff. The Coliseum and/or the Pepsi Center could hold western concerts. Many of the art galleries have western themed exhibits as it is so they could join in the fun.

With respect to the new National Western complex maybe they could hold a couple of summertime rodeos. An annual horse show or two could be nice. Upscale Scottsdale holds an annual Arabian Horse Show which is a global event with participants from Europe and South America, I believe.

Personal story: I caught the 1990's western dance wave in Denver. Finally, I became familiar with and fell in love with Country music. Not only great fun but some of the best aerobic exercise I've ever gotten.

Nothing like a good rodeo and rodeo song, especially my favorite Live Version.

Just remember: "You can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the a boy."
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  #3971  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Sorry, but I think that's so manufactured. I'm 53, was born and raised here. I've never known a "cowboy" in Denver and, outside of stockshow week, rarely even see anyone who would remotely fit that description in this city.

Denver stopped being a "cowboy" town probably 80 years ago or more. Any pretensions otherwise would strike most visitors as fake.

Most people already think of Denver as the Rocky Mountains city, even though it is actually perched at the foot of the mountains.

We should go with, and be happy with that!
I don't think that all these things are necessarily mutually exclusive. Places go through many periods of history, cultures, etc. You don't see Minutemen in Boston anymore, but that certainly doesn't stop them from playing up their colonial history. I grew up in Boulder, so I certainly have never been immersed in "cowboy culture" either, but I'm well aware that this culture and aesthetic is part of our regional history. There's no reason to try and distance ourselves from this heritage just because it isn't "cool" to modern urban hipsters.

For that matter, I think Denver should play up its mining heritage too... related to the same "old west" time period, but not exactly the same in terms of its culture (though to be fair, the city and state already play up the gold rush quite a bit).
     
     
  #3972  
Old Posted May 11, 2015, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Sorry, but I think that's so manufactured.

Denver stopped being a "cowboy" town probably 80 years ago or more. Any pretensions otherwise would strike most visitors as fake.
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Originally Posted by Dogpatch View Post
I couldn't agree more.

I think people from outside Colorado view Denver as the country's biggest city "in" the mountains.
You two are a "stick in the mud."
I'm a liberal and my middle name is "diversity."

seventwenty is right though it's silly to try and re-brand Denver. I agree that it's senseless to pretend Denver is something that it isn't. It appears that Denver's urban core future is secure though. No need to get constipated.

But that doesn't mean Denver shouldn't also celebrate it's heritage on occasion. Anybody know how Denver was started? Ever hear of the Gold Rush? Denver's history is replete with western themes. Hardly a shortage of western art in Denver.

Denver is Colorado's capitol city which has a storied ranching history. Even has its softer John Denver side. Why not take advantage of Denver's wonderful heritage? Not all of life has to be about modern skyscrapers.

Maybe not everybody but I'm sure there's many who could enjoy kicking up their heels on occasion. Guessing there's still lots of people who were once young boys 'n girls that can remember THIS ONE.
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  #3973  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 12:26 AM
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True Denver Story...

I took some country dance lessons somewhere near Sheridan Blvd. I happen to meet this delightful gal. We took the next set of lessons together and at some point she asked if I'd like to go with her to the Galápagos Islands. So I did. She was an attorney who had a nice older Country Club home off about 3rd Ave & University.

Moral of the story: You meet the nicest people taking country dance lessons.
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  #3974  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
True Denver Story...

I took some country dance lessons somewhere near Sheridan Blvd. I happen to meet this delightful gal. We took the next set of lessons together and at some point she asked if I'd like to go with her to the Galápagos Islands. So I did. She was an attorney who had a nice older Country Club home off about 3rd Ave & University.

Moral of the story: You meet the nicest people taking country dance lessons.
Ha.. I was actually just talking to some friends about signing up for some "lessons". I can dance ok.. but getting lessons is easy and there are always 4 times as many women there as men. One benefit is that as a single guy; it's a simple way to "mingle". Got any advice on places that host lessons?
     
     
  #3975  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 5:12 AM
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Ha.. I was actually just talking to some friends about signing up for some "lessons". I can dance ok.. but getting lessons is easy and there are always 4 times as many women there as men. One benefit is that as a single guy; it's a simple way to "mingle". Got any advice on places that host lessons?
Nah, I'm way too far removed from that scene at this point.

Like anything it can sometimes be hit or miss. On occasion, depending on weather or a ballgame etc. I might wonder if I really wanted to go. I always rallied though. Can't recall ever having a negative or regrettable experience. I just happen to take it up and the beginning of a wave that just grew and became more popular for several years. Honestly, it was one of the more enjoyable times of my life. I'm one that can enjoy meeting all kinds of people and the scene included all age groups and manner of good and interesting people. It was a hoot.
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  #3976  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 6:38 AM
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The Sunday Denver post this week was filled with nimby opinion pieces about all of the development occurring in and around Denver. Reading through the Denver post facebook comments there is always someone bitching and moaning about population growth.
It looks like you were onto something here. Seems the cacophony is growing. Stonemans_rowJ's post would attest to it.

Checking in at Westword, Michael Roberts creates this headline:
"Can We Balance New Development and Preserving What Makes Denver Great?"

Michael also give a hat tip to this fella:
"At Denver Infill, Ryan Dravitz offers a second update on the Alexan Uptown project."

He also links to an article by Bree Davies. It's a fun read.
"Reconciling With Denver's Development: How Do We Keep the Old and Celebrate the New?"
Quote:
When I walked into the Wagon Wheel Skate Center in Brighton last weekend for a music-video shoot, I expected to be hit with an intense wave of nostalgia. Growing up half-time in Brighton, I spent many a Friday night at the skating rink, eating microwaved pretzels and wishing I wasn't so afraid to talk to boys (actually, I was just deathly afraid of boys altogether.)

Standing outside of the Wagon Wheel, I was amazed by the structure itself. In the fast-casual, pre-fab world that Denver has begun to occupy, here was this old barn... The structure looked as though it had been altered throughout the years by human hands, not shit out of a 3D printed future machine.
Patricia Calhoun has her own take with this headliner:
"Brad Evans Launches a Campaign Against "Fugly" New Buildings in Denver"
Quote:
"There's all this shit going up," he says. "Stucco boxes that have no use for being built. People are being lazy."

And one day the sight of yet another fucking ugly monstrosity put him over the edge. "The word came up: Fugly," he remembers. "That's perfect."
Stated and described as only the group at Westword can.
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  #3977  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 2:11 PM
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Thanks for the links TakeFive to some other blogs I wouldn't have found on my own.

Look at the (presumed) ages of the people writing these kinds of pieces. They are definitely not young and to use Bunt's terminology they certainly have already gotten theirs. Now they want to preserve neighborhoods in amber and preserve a car-centric way of life in amber. Very self-serving.

Denver has blown up recently because we are well-positioned for the new creative, sharing economy, and a leader in this movement.

When you look at Denver.org (Visit Denver) they may pay some lip service to our cowboy and western heritage, because why not, its kind of cool, but that is not why people visit here.

From Denver.org:
Welcome to Denver, where 300 days of sunshine, a thriving cultural scene, diverse neighborhoods, and natural beauty combine for the world's most spectacular playground. A young, active city at the base of the Colorado Rocky Mountains, Denver's stunning architecture, award-winning dining and unparalleled views are all within the walking distance from the 16th Street pedestrian mall. Upscale shopping awaits in Cherry Creek, while Denver's seven professional sports teams entertain year-round.

Hancock's latest video touts him driving around neighborhoods and Union Station in a Car2Go, showing you what a 21st century city should look like. You don't see him getting out of a smoke-belching F350 in his Lee Dungarees and cowboy hat spitting a big wad of dip juice on the sidewalk.

From opinion piece Greed and Fads...
Policy three: Denver will work to strengthen our uniquely creative and artistic city. A city that encourages creativity attracts young people and entrepreneurs.

The image or “brand” for Denver should be an environmentally-aware high mountain desert filled with artists and cowboys. “Howdy pardner, let’s go for a hike!”

The cowboy story is the greatest myth the world has ever known. We should do everything we can to underscore Denver as a cow town. Market the stock show worldwide, advertise our cowboy bars, and promote our cowboy poetry readings and western wear shops.

I’d plan a cowboy shoot out at noon every day in the “center city” and arrange for Native American dances at the History Colorado complex. Our city flower should be the tumbleweed. The whole world goes crazy for the romance of cowboys.

We’ll need new highway signs that announce the entrance to Denver. Along Interstates 25 and 70 we’re going to place some tasteful signage that announces you are in historic and vibrant Denver.

Try and find a sign that announces Denver today.



So we need to attract young people, entrepreneurs, and creatives with cowboy bars, western stores, highways with giant signs?

Talk about out of touch.
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  #3978  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 2:44 PM
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It looks like you were onto something here. Seems the cacophony is growing. Stonemans_rowJ's post would attest to it.
I think these people have always been in Denver and I know a decent number of them (a couple of the writers personally) — they are the same people who actually complain about Colfax being less shady because "it lost character" or still wish south Broadway was half-abandoned and nothing but used book stores that closed at 5pm. They're the people who fret over how "dangerous" Five Points is or how 16th St. Mall is nothing but crap but haven't been to either in years and vehemently argue against any development to turn either around.

My favorite is the attitude towards north Denver: my family and friends have lived in what is now Jefferson Park and Highland forever, my parents actually met while living at the incredibly shady white apartment building at 26th and Clay. Yet I meet people who grew up in Wash Park or Belcaro or South Park Hill or Littleton who wish LoHi was "like it used to be before it got gentrified." I sure don't. It sucks that a lot of my friends families had to move, and that the neighborhood is full of annoying yuppies that don't understand how to walk politely on sidewalks and generally act like they own everything they survey, but no one wants to live in the neighborhood it was before. At least people can use the park without worrying about gang fights breaking out, or grill out on their billion-dollar patios without a drive-by happening in front of them… I would rather have a city full of stucco-covered stick builds than a place dotted with random empty lots, burned-out buildings full of crackheads, and shops that close after dark because the dealers on the corner scare them away.

But it is easier to mourn the loss of the neighborhood that used to be cool but they never went after dark than it is to admit that the way the neighborhood used to be wasn't some kind of working-class utopia.

It's also easier to dismiss everything about new architecture than to admit that maybe people moving here and enlivening the city is a good thing too (and that the balance is the hard part that we should be talking about. )

It's easier to complain about the current infill than to admit that 95% of Cap Hill, Congress Park and Wash Park are cookie-cutter 100-year old+ brick houses that were designed with cost in mind, and that when they were cheap and mostly rentals a good majority of the landlords could care less what happened to them and a large number of the buildings were falling apart.

Reality doesn't get front page Westword articles because it isn't cool or sensational or hark back to a time when the author was in a terrible band and hung out at Muddy's.
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  #3979  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 3:59 PM
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It's easier to complain about the current infill than to admit that 95% of Cap Hill, Congress Park and Wash Park are cookie-cutter 100-year old+ brick houses .
You must know a different Cap Hill, Congress Park, and Wash Park than I do. I see great variety of styles, colors and designs, even within a single block. Cookie cuter draws to mind Highlands Ranch where you have six colors of beige to chose from and 5 floor designs. Check out CP Live's photo spreads of Cap Hill, for example, in the My Photos section.

The old neighborhoods were not built in the same way.
     
     
  #3980  
Old Posted May 12, 2015, 4:01 PM
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I don’t know. I think that would certainly encourage tourism, but I think it might also scare away millennials that might otherwise consider living in Denver. Young people don’t want to live in a place that’s perceived as a cow town. When I was in my twenties living in Denver (not too long ago) I lived downtown for the sake of being someplace urban (which is apparently the way of the millennial if I am to believe the pervasive narrative about them). I and my urban Denverite friends were regularly defending Denver any time we visited either coast. People had a hard time believing Denverites could be at all urbane. Denver was a cow town and a Denverite was a redneck. I’m sure most of you have had similar experiences. We don’t want to do anything to augment Denver’s cow town image IMO.

I personally have no interest in Cow-anything. This isn't Ft. Worth! Let Cheyenne take all the cowboy crap up there.
     
     
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