PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by ILovePhilly

SHUT UP.

Have you ever worked at MSB? Do you know how much their meetings and functions do or do not depend on being near 1515 and City Hall? The Managing Director's Office and a Deputy Mayor are in that building. The whole point of agglomeration is that proximity makes working together easier. The future and function of the city doesn't rest solely on the sale of MSB so we can sell off just one more asset and turn it over to a private owner. It'll go on regardless. They City is also the largest employer in the city, by far, and trying to sell off every bit and piece of city government occupied land to "make something useful out of it" would result in spreading city function and 80,000 employees so far out they don't 'clog up valuable real estate' as to be useful. If City government was best served by moving all of it's employees and functions to far flung reaches of other city neighborhoods some other government over the past 4,000 years would have figured that out; one thing we are not is on the vanguard of new governmental innovations. Development is great and all that but it doesn't come at the expensive of an actual government.

SHUT UP. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.

Absolutely nothing you've said invalidates my point. Nothing. You act as if extreme proximity is the be-all end-all. Maybe that held true in 1990, but in this day and age? All you're showing is a fetish for the status quo. Just because a building houses government functions, just because a building was designed by a well-known architect, does not mean it is a good building, a building that successfully meets the needs of its workers. Graves' little folly in Portland should remind you of that.

Instead of seeing potential you are advocating for things not to change. Well I don't like that attitude! It is antithetical to the way I think and too often it just gets in the way.

You've made your point. Now I would recommend backing off because I do not back down easily from being challenged.

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

There are enough examples of large vacant structures near major transit nodes, e.g. the Beury Building, Broad & Lehigh, that there is no reason why the district health center should be in low-rent Broad and Lombard, for example. Or the MSB has to be on Reyburn Plaza -- it was only put there because it was City-owned land in the first place -- instead of elsewhere in the transit-saturated CBD.

Its there because the location is centrally located for employees and the public. Its also connected to CH underground. In addiiton there are utilities that are shared between CH, MSB and the CJC. Moving those functions out would be extremely expensive and illogical. Also, MSB is specifically designed to accommodate the public in the concourse- that functionality cannot be easily reproduced in a standard class A office building- even if it happened to be in CC. I fail to see the benefit in selling the building or lot when replacing the structure would cost $50-$100M. How is exactly is that a win for taxpayers? You act like there arent a dozen parking lots in CC that need to be developed.

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

1515 Arch is even more an appendage to City Hall and further away! City departments already lease office space in several office buildings throughout the core, some further away still (like 1234 Market and the Aramark building). Lemme ram this through your thick skull: There is nothing particularly special about MSB's functions that require it to be next to City Hall.

They only lease space because there isnt enough city owned space. They acquired 1515 arch to move people OUT of leased space to reduce costs over the long term. While its true that the DA's office and PWD lease large chunks of space- they are the exception and not the rule. You have arond 2 million sf in city owned space betweent the 4 major buildings in CC- that is fare more than what is leased in nearby buildings. Many smaller leases have been ended over past decade and they moved those units into MSB and 1515. As technology changes and headcounts decline you can bank on that trend continuing. Leasing the equivalent of MSB in a CC office tower would cost a small fortune- especially considering the fact that class B space is disappearing and class A space is getting more expensive due to higher demand.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by 1487

Its there because the location is centrally located for employees and the public. Its also connected to CH underground. In addiiton there are utilities that are shared between CH, MSB and the CJC. Moving those functions out would be extremely expensive and illogical. Also, MSB is specifically designed to accommodate the public in the concourse- that functionality cannot be easily reproduced in a standard class A office building- even if it happened to be in CC. I fail to see the benefit in selling the building or lot when replacing the structure would cost $50-$100M. How is exactly is that a win for taxpayers? You act like there arent a dozen parking lots in CC that need to be developed.

Good morning Your statement about other parking lots that need to be developed begs me to ask , what ever
happened to the proposal , vision , pipe dream , explored on this site about a three building high rise complex that
would take place at 23rd. and the river between JFK and Cherry ??
I seem to recall a plan to cap the rail line for some three or four blocks and build this high rise complex at that
location ....... or have I had too much caffeine this morning .

[PHL10]

Wow, never knew MSB was such a powder keg of a topic. Was everyone drunk posting last night?

I like the MSB where it’s at. Does it absolutely need to be where it is, of course not but it is there and that location is logical. I don’t think the City should be hasty. However, I can agree that the health center at Broad and Lombard needs to go.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Wow, never knew MSB was such a powder keg of a topic. Was everyone drunk posting last night?

I like the MSB where it’s at. Does it absolutely need to be where it is, of course not but it is there and that location is logical. I don’t think the City should be hasty. However, I can agree that the health center at Broad and Lombard needs to go.

was thinking the same thing. In terms of things in CC the MSB is not really that high, I would like better use of the public space and could enhance the space but have no major issues on this building or its function and location

[br323206]

One thing no one has brought up is the idea of the city selling development rights to Broad and Lombard with the caveat that the developer must provide space for the health center. That seems like a win-win. New development with the tax dollars that comes with it and new space for the city.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

1515 Arch is even more an appendage to City Hall and further away! City departments already lease office space in several office buildings throughout the core, some further away still (like 1234 Market and the Aramark building). Lemme ram this through your thick skull: There is nothing particularly special about MSB's functions that require it to be next to City Hall.

Last thing I'll say about this because this is turning into another one of those redundant strident debates here. There are city workers frequently walking back and forth between 1515, MSB, and City Hall for meetings, and while technology does change things, there is a synergy these sites have in being physically close to one another. The current system works well, and there simply is no pressing need to try to relocate all the functions of the MSB elsewhere, which would be very costly.

I don't really understand why this discussion became so heated, but I would suggest resisting getting so emotionally invested in it in the future.

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by br323206

One thing no one has brought up is the idea of the city selling development rights to Broad and Lombard with the caveat that the developer must provide space for the health center. That seems like a win-win. New development with the tax dollars that comes with it and new space for the city.

AN interesting idea, but as mentioned upthread, the city has already made plans to move the Health Department offices to the Provident Mutual Life Insurance Building in West Philly (a fairly transit accessible site). After that it sounds like they intend to sell the lot.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/...ment-buildings

In all honesty, their timing is just about perfect on this one. I know we all pretty much see the current 3 story building with surface lot as under utilization of a prime spot, but ask yourself how prime the spot currently is. Within a block to the north and south lie surface parking lots directly on Broad. Until recently, the corner of Broad and South (less than a block away) was an empty lot community garden. This area is now poised for growth and I can see development on south Broad street exploding in the next 5 years, but yo couldn't really say the same thing a decade ago. I don't think it was anything other than blind luck, but I'd say that the city has chosen the perfect time to sell this lot. (Just so long as they get fair market value for it and don't just give it away for pennies on the dollar to some politically connected crony.)

[Philly Fan]

Center City elevated rail park now on fast track

[boxbot]

A lot of passion about the MSB. Goodness.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

AN interesting idea, but as mentioned upthread, the city has already made plans to move the Health Department offices to the Provident Mutual Life Insurance Building in West Philly (a fairly transit accessible site). After that it sounds like they intend to sell the lot.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/...ment-buildings

In all honesty, their timing is just about perfect on this one. I know we all pretty much see the current 3 story building with surface lot as under utilization of a prime spot, but ask yourself how prime the spot currently is. Within a block to the north and south lie surface parking lots directly on Broad. Until recently, the corner of Broad and South (less than a block away) was an empty lot community garden. This area is now poised for growth and I can see development on south Broad street exploding in the next 5 years, but yo couldn't really say the same thing a decade ago. I don't think it was anything other than blind luck, but I'd say that the city has chosen the perfect time to sell this lot. (Just so long as they get fair market value for it and don't just give it away for pennies on the dollar to some politically connected crony.)

Ah right you are. I must've overlooked that post.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Good morning Your statement about other parking lots that need to be developed begs me to ask , what ever
happened to the proposal , vision , pipe dream , explored on this site about a three building high rise complex that
would take place at 23rd. and the river between JFK and Cherry ??
I seem to recall a plan to cap the rail line for some three or four blocks and build this high rise complex at that
location ....... or have I had too much caffeine this morning .

I dont think weve heard anything in close to a year. Some people said the lot was sold since the last developer released renderings of their proposal. Im skeptical that anything will happen there, its a huge site.

[1487]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

Last thing I'll say about this because this is turning into another one of those redundant strident debates here. There are city workers frequently walking back and forth between 1515, MSB, and City Hall for meetings, and while technology does change things, there is a synergy these sites have in being physically close to one another. The current system works well, and there simply is no pressing need to try to relocate all the functions of the MSB elsewhere, which would be very costly.

I don't really understand why this discussion became so heated, but I would suggest resisting getting so emotionally invested in it in the future.

Your point is 100% valid. Spreading out the workforce makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and the "discussion" is pointless when there are parking lots less than 3 blocks from MSB that need to be developed. People are acting like center city has a death of buildable lots and developers pressed to buy MSB. We cant even the building at broad and arch converted to a hotel and its VACANT.

[summersm343]

Collaborative office space in Callowhill corridor

The Destination Maternity Corporation’s headquarters at Fifth and Spring Garden Streets, which was sold for $14 million in September 2014, is being transformed by Alliance HSP intoSoNo (“Southern Northern Liberties”), a 225,000-square-foot open-plan office environment designed to attract firms seeking non-traditional workspace that might appeal to millennials and creative-class workers.

The new design calls for a roof deck with views of the city, lounge-style seating, and fire pits, plus a gym, café, and bike room.

Successful development of SoNo could help begin to fill in the significant gap in the fabric of Center City between Old City and Northern Liberties.

Renderings here:
http://www.centercityphila.org/pressroom/ccnews050515.php
http://www.sonohsp.com/

[summersm343]

$28 Million Renovation of Four Seasons Hotel

The Four Seasons at 18th and the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, which will close in June, will undergo a $28 million renovation that will transform it into a 4.5-star hotel operated by Sage Hospitality, Philadelphia magazine reported. The new name of the hotel has not been announced.

The renovation will include extensive improvements to the ballroom, meeting space and spa and fitness center, while introducing a new roof-top lounge, high-end coffee bar and a new restaurant, the Urban Farmer steakhouse. The hotel is expected to re-open late in 2015.

http://www.centercityphila.org/pressroom/ccnews050515.php

[summersm343]

Rendering for Divine Lorraine's ground floor retail space



http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...-this-rendering-hanging-on-your-wall.php

[summersm343]

Drexel University Korman Quadrangle redevelopment
http://www.phillymag.com/property/2015/05/06/drexel-university-korman-quadrangle/

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Collaborative office space in Callowhill corridor



Renderings here:
http://www.centercityphila.org/pressroom/ccnews050515.php
http://www.sonohsp.com/

wow the amount of these being proposed/built is pretty interesting...

[DIESELPOLO]

That's some beautiful adaptive re-use. I'm excited for Philly's creative scene.

I don't need it to be called SoNo though...the name itself is like a self-aware joke: Southern Northern Liberties??

Maybe 'Southern Northern' or 'South North' would be a cooler acknowledgement of what they're going for. I digress.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Collaborative office space in Callowhill corridor



Renderings here:
http://www.centercityphila.org/pressroom/ccnews050515.php
http://www.sonohsp.com/