PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[shadowbat2]

Originally Posted by summersm343

3400 Market

This 18 story building at the intersection of 34th and Market Streets will further advance the Science Center's mission to create a supportive environment for local entrepreneurs. It will create 434,000 SF of available space for tenants ranging from small start-ups and incubators to institutional clients and major corporations. 3400 Market will further activate the area with it's ground level retail.

Much better than the previous design that's for sure.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Mandeville lot

Bunch of suits checking out the lot today. Not sure if it was for development/purchasing purposes or what.

That lot still exists? On Walnut near the river? I thought it had been filled or mostly filled by that short beige, bland box. Who owns that? Restaurant/bar combining to one of its properties on the ground floor.

[blorkishdork]

jsbrook, the old beige building was already in existence for several years. I am not really sure when it was built, but I know it was the Rosenbluth? travel agency building and that was around since at least the 80's (I now work in it). The lot between that building (now called 2401 walnut) and 2400 chestnut is where mandeville place was proposed.

[MusicMan84]

Originally Posted by summersm343

3400 Market

This 18 story building at the intersection of 34th and Market Streets will further advance the Science Center's mission to create a supportive environment for local entrepreneurs. It will create 434,000 SF of available space for tenants ranging from small start-ups and incubators to institutional clients and major corporations. 3400 Market will further activate the area with it's ground level retail.





http://issuu.com/zgfarchitectsllp/docs/science_center?e=5145747/10513963

This would give a sort of book-ends look to the science center, given that this appears so similar to 3737 Market. (In which I am currently enjoying a coffee.)

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by blorkishdork

jsbrook, the old beige building was already in existence for several years. I am not really sure when it was built, but I know it was the Rosenbluth? travel agency building and that was around since at least the 80's (I now work in it). The lot between that building (now called 2401 walnut) and 2400 chestnut is where mandeville place was proposed.

Ah, got it. Thanks.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

[QUOTE=summersm343;7016867]3400 Market
3800 Market
440,000 SF of office space conceived in two phases to address the Science Center's projected growth. Phase I features a 19 story, 345,000 SF office tower with ground level retail, two levels of below-grade parking, two levels of above-grade parking, and a penthouse. Phase II is comprised of a 12 story, 95,000 SF tower.



I'm a little confused with the rendering and the location for 3800. Has to be in the surface parking lot on the SW corner, but the rendering has that squat building next to it that looks like somewhere else at the Science Center.

[christof]

[QUOTE=hammersklavier;7016872]Interesting, 3800 Market is just a massing while 3400 Market is a full render. Does that mean we'll see the former first?

In either case, once those two lots get developed I predict we'll start seeing the Science Center redevelop some of those older low-rise buildings (especially on the street's south side) -- they'll have eaten their land bank so they'll need to ramp up the intensity. Assuming, that is, their growth doesn't stall out.

Science Center is about to lose their rights to develop the parking lots at 34th and 38th. They will be developed next, though, I wouldn't bet the ranch on either property getting developed.

The 34th street site has been in the works for over a decade and still nothing...

[1487]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I imagine they might well be able to sell the land for more money than the cost of a one-story frame replacement facility on a less prime piece of land somewhere more remote from Center City, particularly if the city already owns such a piece of land which it assuredly does. Plus, you'd have to consider the long-term value of putting prime property back on the tax rolls.

The City seems to have lots of nice properties in and outside of Center City that it sits on like any other blight lord - but not out of greed, out of incompetence and sloth-like ability to capitalize on hot RE markets (at best), or corrupt councilmanic political machinations (at worst).

Centrally located offices are good for everyone- even lowly government employees. Placing a health admin building in the middle of a brownfield in north philly isnt logical. Its easy to reach by tranist now and no parking is needed. Plus there are hazmat issues that lower its value to any developer. As stated, the amount they would reap would barely be enough to construct a comparable facility- even if said facility was on city owned land. The city does not own a lot of prime lots outside of CC that arent already used. In fact, most city facilities are located in areas where there is little demand for private investment- especially in north philly, near the airport and near the delaware river. Individual rowhouse lots that the city now owns by default are of little use for new municipal buildings.

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Interesting, 3800 Market is just a massing while 3400 Market is a full render. Does that mean we'll see the former first?

In either case, once those two lots get developed I predict we'll start seeing the Science Center redevelop some of those older low-rise buildings (especially on the street's south side) -- they'll have eaten their land bank so they'll need to ramp up the intensity. Assuming, that is, their growth doesn't stall out.

I once crossed through the courtyard while a street musician was playing an instrument in it. The acoustics in the courtyard are incredible! It totally took my breath away.

What would be really cool would be to run like a small concert series or something of the like capitalizing on the courtyard's natural acoustics in the evenings. I'd love to see something like that.

They do program some events there during the summer BUT that may have changed due to Dillworth Park- perhaps they have scaled back the CH events in order to prevent cannabilization of Dilworth events.

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by blorkishdork

jsbrook, the old beige building was already in existence for several years. I am not really sure when it was built, but I know it was the Rosenbluth? travel agency building and that was around since at least the 80's (I now work in it). The lot between that building (now called 2401 walnut) and 2400 chestnut is where mandeville place was proposed.

I worked here for Rosenbluth as a telecommunications engineer in the 1990's/ Originally it was built for the B&O Railroad as some sort of storage/warehouse and has mammoth concrete columns to support very heavy loads. Before Rosenbluth it housed the Atlantic S&L which went out with the S&L crises in the 80s. The B&O passenger station fronted Chestnut street and continued toward Walnut. There is a surface lot there now which was going to be Mandeville Place by the same designer who did the new Getty Museum in LA. His name is Pelligrino. If you remember this bland building was going to be the fitness and health, rec center for the condo.

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

The City really ought to be exploring the sale of multiple underutilized prime parcels. Not only of MSB plaza, but Broad & Lombard*, 16th & Cherry immediately come to mind. What others?

The City could make a killing off those sites and relocate functions a locations fractions of the value being wasted.

*Social activist posters, please don't bother responding to why the hideous two story green Health Dept turd needs to be one acre at Broad & Lombard. And spare me the odes to its mid-century modern pedigree. That — is an ugly waste of space whose functions could easily be relocated to a cheaper, transit accessible location.

Not sure what social activism has to do with it. It's only logical for the city to locate such facilities within easy transit access, otherwise what's the point???

At any rate, it looks like the Health Department offices will be moving from that building to the Provident Mutual Life Insurance Building as soon as that building is ready. This makes sense as it is still within easy transit access and it's a building the city already owns. After that it looks like the Broad and Lombard building will likely be sold.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/03/1...r-roundhouse-health-department-buildings

I don't really care one way or another as to whether they try to preserve some of the architecture or just demo the whole thing. Just as long as the surface parking lot portion is gone and they build something dense there with good street presence.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Not sure what social activism has to do with it. It's only logical for the city to locate such facilities within easy transit access, otherwise what's the point???

At any rate, it looks like the Health Department offices will be moving from that building to the Provident Mutual Life Insurance Building as soon as that building is ready. This makes sense as it is still within easy transit access and it's a building the city already owns. After that it looks like the Broad and Lombard building will likely be sold.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2013/03/1...r-roundhouse-health-department-buildings

I don't really care one way or another as to whether they try to preserve some of the architecture or just demo the whole thing. Just as long as the surface parking lot portion is gone and they build something dense there with good street presence.

I was thinking about this earlier- I couldnt remember if the 500 S Broad location was to be included at 4601 Market. You answered my question. Im glad Im not the only person that understands why its logical to have city facilities located near transit nodes. Just the other day someone was proposing that MSB be sold so it could be redeveloped by a private entity as if it wasnt located right near city hall and the nexus of the subways for a reason.

[iheartphilly]

My experience is that all levels of government with a large workforce in search of an office building to house its employees (to be constructed or available for lease) require that the building be located near a transit node (i.e., getting off of a regional rail line or subway line and walking to the building).

[hammersklavier]

There are enough examples of large vacant structures near major transit nodes, e.g. the Beury Building, Broad & Lehigh, that there is no reason why the district health center should be in low-rent Broad and Lombard, for example. Or the MSB has to be on Reyburn Plaza -- it was only put there because it was City-owned land in the first place -- instead of elsewhere in the transit-saturated CBD.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

There are enough examples of large vacant structures near major transit nodes, e.g. the Beury Building, Broad & Lehigh, that there is no reason why the district health center should be in low-rent Broad and Lombard, for example. Or the MSB has to be on Reyburn Plaza -- it was only put there because it was City-owned land in the first place -- instead of elsewhere in the transit-saturated CBD.

But MSB is basically an appendage to City Hall. It wouldn't make sense for it to be anywhere but Rayburn Plaza. I mean, I'm not saying there isn't any city-owned land that should be sold off or any relocations in order to rationalize, but the whole area around City Hall is our civic government heart. You have City Hall, MSB, 1515 Arch, Family Court, and the courts on Filbert. Why would you relocate city offices that are directly under the purview of the mayor when they are perfectly located adjacent to the where the mayor works? It's like if someone said, "The DC real estate market is really hot, it's a waste to have the Old Executive Office Building right next to the White House when we could sell that land and move it to Anacostia." It's not like city government is some incidental nuisance that is just wasting space that could otherwise be condos.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

But MSB is basically an appendage to City Hall. It wouldn't make sense for it to be anywhere but Rayburn Plaza. I mean, I'm not saying there isn't any city-owned land that should be sold off or any relocations in order to rationalize, but the whole area around City Hall is our civic government heart. You have City Hall, MSB, 1515 Arch, Family Court, and the courts on Filbert. Why would you relocate city offices that are directly under the purview of the mayor when they are perfectly located adjacent to the where the mayor works? It's like if someone said, "The DC real estate market is really hot, it's a waste to have the Old Executive Office Building right next to the White House when we could sell that land and move it to Anacostia." It's not like city government is some incidental nuisance that is just wasting space that could otherwise be condos.

1515 Arch is even more an appendage to City Hall and further away! City departments already lease office space in several office buildings throughout the core, some further away still (like 1234 Market and the Aramark building). Lemme ram this through your thick skull: There is nothing particularly special about MSB's functions that require it to be next to City Hall.

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by summersm343

3400 Market

This 18 story building at the intersection of 34th and Market Streets will further advance the Science Center's mission to create a supportive environment for local entrepreneurs. It will create 434,000 SF of available space for tenants ranging from small start-ups and incubators to institutional clients and major corporations. 3400 Market will further activate the area with it's ground level retail.


3800 Market
440,000 SF of office space conceived in two phases to address the Science Center's projected growth. Phase I features a 19 story, 345,000 SF office tower with ground level retail, two levels of below-grade parking, two levels of above-grade parking, and a penthouse. Phase II is comprised of a 12 story, 95,000 SF tower.

I love these renderings, but are they happening for sure? I've never seen them before.

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

1515 Arch is even more an appendage to City Hall and further away! City departments already lease office space in several office buildings throughout the core, some further away still (like 1234 Market and the Aramark building). Lemme ram this through your thick skull: There is nothing particularly special about MSB's functions that require it to be next to City Hall.

SHUT UP.

Have you ever worked at MSB? Do you know how much their meetings and functions do or do not depend on being near 1515 and City Hall? The Managing Director's Office and a Deputy Mayor are in that building. The whole point of agglomeration is that proximity makes working together easier. The future and function of the city doesn't rest solely on the sale of MSB so we can sell off just one more asset and turn it over to a private owner. It'll go on regardless. They City is also the largest employer in the city, by far, and trying to sell off every bit and piece of city government occupied land to "make something useful out of it" would result in spreading city function and 80,000 employees so far out they don't 'clog up valuable real estate' as to be useful. If City government was best served by moving all of it's employees and functions to far flung reaches of other city neighborhoods some other government over the past 4,000 years would have figured that out; one thing we are not is on the vanguard of new governmental innovations. Development is great and all that but it doesn't come at the expensive of an actual government.

SHUT UP. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.

[Eigenwelt]

Everyone needs to calm the hell down and show a little — decorum.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by summersm343

The redesign looks great but it seems like a lost opportunity to integrate the subway entrance into the base.