Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The moose were very well supported. Don't get me wrong they almost always led the AHL's attendance even today they would have been among the top sellers in the league. I think the moose will easily draw 8-9k the first season 5-7 of those being season ticket holders. It will probably taper off and sit around 4-6k after the honeymoon is over. Think about it this way their is a lot of family's or couples in Winnipeg that haven't seen pro hockey since 2011 due to low supply and high prices. A ton of Jets wait listers (8k) that may settle for the AHL while they wait for the call. Alot of die hard Jets fans that Can't get enough and couple that with casual game attenders I cant see why they cant sit middle of the pack in terms of attendance. The experience is gonna be so much better for the Moose fans this time around. It's a farm team for the pride team of the city, playing in more of an NHL caliber building (If that makes sense to you), Way more affordable ticket prices. The only downside to this is that 15,000 potential paying hockey fans are already paying big money for the jets and the moose wont be the Stars of Winnipeg's Winter sports scene this time around.

Can't believe the Marlies numbers....it's even Leafs prospects not another teams ....smh
Toronto is a Leafs town not a hockey town

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Can't believe the Marlies numbers....it's even Leafs prospects not another teams ....smh
Toronto is a Leafs town not a hockey town

I think it might be more accurate to say Toronto is an NHL town. Any new NHL team in Toronto would be an instant success. The Marlies tend to be average to above average for AHL attendance. Not great, but not bad either. The Leafs falling off another cliff probably hurt them this year.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by king10

Tim Hortons field looks great.

Just one question though. Did they just put all those ticat/ tim hortons banners up only to have to take them down in a month or two when the pan ams roll in? No sponsors are allowed and it will be called cibc pan am soccer stadium or something along those lines. Will the marquee tim hortons sign on the scoreboard as well as the signs at the entrance gates have to be covered up?

The marquee will have to be covered. Anything that does not sponsor FIFA isn't allowed to even breathe on their sport.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

If it works in Calgary and Edmonton, it should work in Winnipeg. Comparable ticket prices and a Higher caliber product.

Both of those markets routinely bring in 5-6k on average a season in the dub.

It will be interesting to see how that works. It's not exactly the same as Calgary/Edmonton since those are WHL teams, not AHL and there is a different perception of CHL hockey vs AHL hockey. I'm not sure you can price AHL hockey at the same level as CHL hockey and be profitable.

What is also interesting, is that Winnipeg will try to be only the 2nd NHL city to have their AHL affiliate in the same city (and the only one to use the same building). The Marlies have hardly been a runaway success, so I'm certainly curious to see if Winnipeg can do better.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Horus

It will be interesting to see how that works. It's not exactly the same as Calgary/Edmonton since those are WHL teams, not AHL and there is a different perception of CHL hockey vs AHL hockey. I'm not sure you can price AHL hockey at the same level as CHL hockey and be profitable.

What is also interesting, is that Winnipeg will try to be only the 2nd NHL city to have their AHL affiliate in the same city (and the only one to use the same building). The Marlies have hardly been a runaway success, so I'm certainly curious to see if Winnipeg can do better.

I think it will be a success. I don't think it'll be a huge money machine, but I'm sure it will be profitable enough for TNSE's purposes. Recall that they will basically be sharing all of the hockey ops/management infrastructure with the Jets, so that cuts costs substantially. The Jets pay the bills for the MTS Centre so the Moose will essentially be a free rider - they implied this when TNSE explained how it is that AHL tickets will be cheaper now than when the Moose were last here in 2010-11.

What you also have to consider is that the AHL is a familiar product now. It was around for a while, and was the only (hockey) game in town, and as a result people know it reasonably well. There is a generation of kids that grew up watching the Moose live... the team definitely has an important place in the Winnipeg sports firmament. People generally recognize it for what it is, and that is very good hockey. The AHL doesn't have the pedigree in Canada that the CHL has (the Memorial Cup is a bona fide big deal in Canada), but the quality of play is excellent and people know that. This is not Toronto where interest in hockey is a mile wide and an inch deep... people here will turn out for the AHL.

Winnipeggers really do love hockey and there are many for whom Jets games are not practical... getting Jets tickets is tough, and even if you can get access cost can be an issue and if you need more than a pair, getting that number of seats is virtually impossible. Families, school groups/teams, that sort of thing simply can't be accommodated by the Jets, so many of those people will gravitate to the AHL.

To see the nature of the reaction, just look at the comments in the various Winnipeg news sources. Usually they are (as many comments sections are) a cesspool of negativity and snark, but in this case they are generally very positive and very receptive to the return of the AHL. That tells me something right there.

I'm sure the Moose will be a success. Will it be successful enough to prevent another city with a new arena to fill from one day luring them away? Possibly not. But I can definitely see the Moose spending at least the next 5 years here playing in front of good-sized and passionate crowds.

[Da Vinci]

Originally Posted by Horus

What is also interesting, is that Winnipeg will try to be only the 2nd NHL city to have their AHL affiliate in the same city (and the only one to use the same building).

San Jose Sharks is also moving their farm team to San Jose and will also play on the same building.

[Oilkountry]

Thunderbay would have been the biggest mistake True North could have made. New arena or not moving an AHL team to a city with just over 100k and expecting 5-7% of that population to show up to 38 games is just flat out ridiculous. I would imagine they had a bigger overall business plan but that's a lot to ask out of such a small community.

In Winnipeg you just have a such a higher chance of survival. Like pointed out earlier the jets pay the bills for the Barn,Staff and Practice facilities. (if they aren't paying for themselves already) True North is receiving way more public funds per season now than in the past or tax breaks I cant remember something to do with VLT's. I read an article that it will more than double from this season on. That most definitely has to do something with the moose as your bringing an additional 5-8000 more people down down 38 times a year.

The only downside to this whole deal for Winnipeg as a city is it's gonna damage Winnipeg's concert scene. But TNSE took over the Burton Cummings Theater in downtown Winnipeg. It seats just under 1700 and they have been fixing up the place To hold smaller shows in it. So that will take some stress of the MTSC. Winnipeg is definitely missing a 5000-8000 seat venue. Currently that role is filled by the lower bowl of the big barn. maybe the moose can spearhead that deal

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The only downside to this whole deal for Winnipeg as a city is it's gonna damage Winnipeg's concert scene. But TNSE took over the Burton Cummings Theater in downtown Winnipeg. It seats just under 1700 and they have been fixing up the place To hold smaller shows in it. So that will take some stress of the MTSC. Winnipeg is definitely missing a 5000-8000 seat venue. Currently that role is filled by the lower bowl of the big barn. maybe the moose can spearhead that deal

You think it'll have that much of an impact? 38 dates is not really that huge in the context of an entire 7-month hockey season. It works out to like 5-6 nights a month on average. Combine that with 7-8 Jets games and you still have most of the month left for concerts and other events. I'd imagine that the fluctuations of the Canadian dollar will have a bigger impact on the concert scene here than the Moose will.

I do agree with your point regarding the need for a mid-sized venue, though. Winnipeg is a bit weird in that there is really nothing at all between the Concert Hall/Burton Cummings/Garrick soft-seat venues and the MTS Centre other than awkward setups like the Convention Centre. With TNSE basically having a monopoly on hockey, though, I don't see such a venue getting built anytime soon. The only real hope I could imagine would be if the Red River Ex partnered with someone who wanted to buy a WHL team to Winnipeg... that could have led to an arena on the west edge of the city in what is basically a terrible location unless you live in Westwood or Charleswood. That would have been a longshot at the best of times due to RREX's ineptitude and the WHL's general resistance to Winnipeg (too far a distance for their liking), and any hope on that front has completely evaporated with the AHL returning.

[Horus]

Argos to BMO talks are still ongoing.


From the Toronto Sun

Argos-MLSE talks on BMO Field extended
By Don Peat, City Hall Bureau Chief

First posted: Monday, May 04, 2015 05:28 PM EDT | Updated: Monday, May 04, 2015 05:32 PM EDT

TORONTO - BMO Field negotiations between the Toronto Argonauts and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment appear to be going into overtime.

Outgoing MLSE president Tim Leiweke said last month there were 10 days left for the two sides to score a deal in order to ensure BMO Field would be ready for the Boatmen next year.

As Leiweke’s 10-day time limit expired on Monday, a spokesman for MLSE said there was “some flexibility” on the deadline.

“The main focus here this week is on the TFC home opener and the re-opening of BMO Field this Sunday,” Dave Haggith said.

In a statement, the Argos said the talks are continuing.
...

[esquire]

^ Yeesh, still going? Maybe they need to bring in John Kerry to mediate some kind of deal... with the complexity of the players involved and their various alliances and antipathies, it might be in line with his experiences in the Middle East.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

You think it'll have that much of an impact? 38 dates is not really that huge in the context of an entire 7-month hockey season. It works out to like 5-6 nights a month on average. Combine that with 7-8 Jets games and you still have most of the month left for concerts and other events. I'd imagine that the fluctuations of the Canadian dollar will have a bigger impact on the concert scene here than the Moose will.

I do agree with your point regarding the need for a mid-sized venue, though. Winnipeg is a bit weird in that there is really nothing at all between the Concert Hall/Burton Cummings/Garrick soft-seat venues and the MTS Centre other than awkward setups like the Convention Centre. With TNSE basically having a monopoly on hockey, though, I don't see such a venue getting built anytime soon. The only real hope I could imagine would be if the Red River Ex partnered with someone who wanted to buy a WHL team to Winnipeg... that could have led to an arena on the west edge of the city in what is basically a terrible location unless you live in Westwood or Charleswood. That would have been a longshot at the best of times due to RREX's ineptitude and the WHL's general resistance to Winnipeg (too far a distance for their liking), and any hope on that front has completely evaporated with the AHL returning.

Agreed. Arenas like the Staples Centre host 3 permament teams and still manage enough dates for award shows and concerts. I'm sure MTS centre will be just fine with regards to concert dates.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

Agreed. Arenas like the Staples Centre host 3 permament teams and still manage enough dates for award shows and concerts. I'm sure MTS centre will be just fine with regards to concert dates.

Hey, I know the LA Kings, Sparks and Clippers are top of mind as pro teams, but let's not forget the lowly Lakers, they count too. So that's 4 permanent teams at the Staples Centre

But yeah, the point being that they have no trouble accommodating plenty of concerts and entertainment events even with a very busy sports lineup. Two teams is nothing by comparison.

[Oilkountry]

I'm not sure you can compare LA to Winnipeg considering LA has a 20,000 seat (non sports) arena permanently dedicated to the concert scene and the 2 parties have an agreement to not step on each others toes

[Oilkountry]

But I do understand what you mean obviously the ACC,MSG,Rexall are all busy arenas with multiple tenants.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Hey, I know the LA Kings, Sparks and Clippers are top of mind as pro teams, but let's not forget the lowly Lakers, they count too. So that's 4 permanent teams at the Staples Centre

But yeah, the point being that they have no trouble accommodating plenty of concerts and entertainment events even with a very busy sports lineup. Two teams is nothing by comparison.

I would hardly place the Sparks before the Clippers, hell I even had to google the Sparks to know what it was.

[king10]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I would hardly place the Sparks before the Clippers, hell I even had to google the Sparks to know what it was.

It was meant to be tongue in cheek poking fun of the lakers. Sparks before clippers is just the order he listed the first 3.

I totally forgot about the sparks when listing the original 3 tennants (theres 4). P

[UrbanClimate]

April 30th:


Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchew...e-on-drivers-for-next-5-months-1.3056055

[tomthumb2]

^^^ Interesting that Regina got that stadium pushed through and built after the NDP was kicked out. History likely to be repeated in Calgary meaning we'll get a new stadium and/or arena in about 30 years.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

^^^ Interesting that Regina got that stadium pushed through and built after the NDP was kicked out. History likely to be repeated in Calgary meaning we'll get a new stadium and/or arena in about 30 years.

Baseless speculation.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

^^^ Interesting that Regina got that stadium pushed through and built after the NDP was kicked out. History likely to be repeated in Calgary meaning we'll get a new stadium and/or arena in about 30 years.

Winnipeg got both an arena and a stadium built under a NDP government.