Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

What happens when interest rates finally go up? Many real estate and other final asset markets are in a major bubble. Private and public debt skyrocketing, middle-class eroding and the greedy bankers are getting fatter. But nobody wants to talk about that though.

Nobody wants to talk about all of that? You haven't read this thread's 135 pages, I see...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by st7860

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...s-reveal-city-s-racist-history-1.2747924
To many people, Metro Vancouver stands for diversity, but there's a dark history behind how some local neighbourhoods and property owners dealt with minority groups.

Early immigrants to B.C. faced not only the hardship of settling into a new home, but also seemingly racist policies — Chinese and Indo-Canadians did not have the right to own property and only got the right to vote in 1947.

In Vancouver, West Vancouver and Victoria, owners tried to use restrictive land covenants to keep minorities from buying land — and many of those covenants remain in place to this day.

Realtor Wayne Hammil recently spotted a covenant in a land title dating back to 1928 when he was putting a Vancouver home up for sale.

"One of the clauses in the restrictive covenant makes reference to not selling to certain ethnic minorities in the world," said Hammil.

Interesting that the agent goes on to say that most buyers nowadays are from mainland China:

The covenant prevents the sale or rent of the land to people who are of Chinese, Japanese, Indian and African descent or any other Asiatic race.

"[There's a ] total irony because most of the buyers are from mainland China," said Hammil. "If this was enforced, it would preclude them from purchasing the property."

Very ironic that these properties are now sold for shitloads of money due to the fact they're sold to Chinese...

The owners back in the pre-war era would have been pretty surprised had they known that!

[st7860]

So it depends on whether you a) believe a random agent or b) the government(chmc) about foreign buyers.

however, it matters little who buys property. even if it is unoccupied, the city is making money for services they do not provide, so it benefits others.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by st7860

however, it matters little who buys property. even if it is unoccupied, ...

I beg to differ on that one. It was explained many times over the last few tens of pages (and probably many times before that) that, generally speaking, having outside buyers come in massively to drive up the prices totally outside the range of locals to then keep the units empty for speculation is a phenomenon that tends to hinder vibrancy, and contributes to driving residents and economic activity away.

On a small scale in any given city it might not be noticeable, but in Van I think it IS a noticeable phenomenon with actual impacts on the city.

[st7860]

Yes it drives people to places around Metro Vancouver such as Coquitlam, surrey, Delta, etc, and others to Alberta. There's plenty of people to replace them. I like senior citizens because they wouldn't support that makes the real estate they intend to use for their retirement or or hand down to their kids drop in value.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by lio45

Very ironic that these properties are now sold for shitloads of money due to the fact they're sold to Chinese...

The owners back in the pre-war era would have been pretty surprised had they known that!

If it was enforced nothing would be different.

Someone would setup a REIT specializing in Victoria based freehold residential houses which the Chinese could invest in. This REIT would now own a chunk of Victoria.

[ssiguy]

These vacant homes do a lot of harm.

They create bidding wars which the locals cannot afford, they led to a lot of bad feelings from neighbours who watch the vacant homes being left to rot with little attention paid to the lot or the impact on the character of the neighbourhood. They make home buying harder which inhibits businesses being able to get qualified workers or even retaining them............$70k in Vancouver might qualify you for a bachelor apt in Vancouver.

It also reinforces the idea and belief that Vancouver is not a city to live in but rather one to flip real estate. Where everything is up for grabs to the highest bidder and history, community, neighbours, and a sense of belonging are not only unwanted but a downright annoyance. It reinforces the growing belief that Vancouver is no longer a city but a resort for the well healed and those without a LOT of money should simply stop bitching and move to Surrey.

It also socially stratifies the city as nearly every single house that has been demolished only to have another built in its place have been done by almost exclusively Chinese in the last 25 years. The demolitions and housing speculation began in 1989 when the Hong Kong started to flee and wanted a cheap passport and it will continue.

[st7860]

i just wandered over to realtylink.org and looked for a 2 bedroom unit and used their calculator -# 405 3455 ASCOT PL, Collingwood, Vancouver East, $278,000.00
a non high ratio mortgage with a conventional 25% down payment, $1333/mo including property tax, maintenance, and mortgage payments, with a household income required of $45,000.

That doesn't look like a bachelor suite.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by crazycrazydoesdoes

So sensitive! Can't you see that cornholio is merely "stating facts" such as your family is probably up to no good and doesn't contribute to Canadian "society"

And I must be too PC in thinking there's something wrong with the people reacting to Gregoor Robertson's girlfriend in the National Post with comments about "treason" and "the swarm" or stuff like "the last true Chinese Canadians were the guys who built the railway" As were the mods cracking down on the xenophobia a few pages back... too PC

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...to-be-dating-chinese-pop-star-wanting-qu

[dleung]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you agree that there's an affordability problem... then don't you think it can be observed that a certain group from a certain area have been a significant contributing factor to the current affordability problem?

That affordability problem you say there is... what are, in your opinion, the causes for it? Just curious.

Some of you are really ultra-sensitive. If it's a fact that nearly all the taxi drivers in a given city are of one single ethnicity, then it's a fact. It should be possible to observe that fact, and mention it, without automatically being considered as implying that they should all be booted out of the country or something.

We're not too sensitive. Everyone knows how Quebec is like

The cause is international demand for a highly sought-after place. I said already we should milk that demand for the benefit of long-time residents by taxing foreign purchases and second properties through the roof, who cares where the money is coming from. Contrary to what a few posters have insisted, one can't "see" the foreign ownership in Vancouver unless they are racist and consider immigrants foreigners, and it's just as valid to point it out.

China has twice the population of Europe... did the investor immigrant population reflect that? If so is it still a problem?

[st7860]

Originally Posted by dleung

China has twice the population of Europe... did the investor immigrant population reflect that? If so is it still a problem?

There are a few investor immigration programs in Europe too. The thing is most people prefer to come here

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

And I must be too PC in thinking there's something wrong with the people reacting to Gregoor Robertson's girlfriend...

Well, they're actually breaking the Creepiness Rule... That 1) has nothing to do with race and 2) makes them a valid target for mild criticism.

Politician dumps wife of many years for someone who could be his daughter = criticism. That's guaranteed.

In fact I just now clicked on your link to see the comments and I'd say about half are complaining about their age difference and dumping his "now too old" wife. The other half is IMO mostly just attacking her because they don't approve of what happened.

Otherwise, if it's truly because Canadians are racist, then how come we did not see the same reactions to a couple that satisfies non-creepiness age gap requirements like, say, Jack Layton and Olivia Chow?

[st7860]

Originally Posted by lio45

Well, they're actually breaking the Creepiness Rule... That 1) has nothing to do with race and 2) makes them a valid target for mild criticism.

Politician dumps wife of many years for someone who could be his daughter = criticism. That's guaranteed.

In fact I just now clicked on your link to see the comments and I'd say about half are complaining about their age difference and dumping his "now too old" wife. The other half is IMO mostly just attacking her because they don't approve of what happened.

Otherwise, if it's truly because Canadians are racist, then how come we did not see the same reactions to a couple that satisfies non-creepiness age gap requirements like, say, Jack Layton and Olivia Chow?

Yes some but not all Canadians are racist. Also, Gregor meets the traditional Canadian rule which is his partner is close to 'half the man's age plus 7"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

who cares where the money is coming from.

If it's dirty then one could make the argument that it's a bit of a problem from a global point of view.

Sure, Swiss banks during WWII did not care where the money was coming from either...

And you can "see" absentee ownership. People don't seem to care exactly where they're coming from, but they seem to dislike that they're not living in the properties they're getting, and tearing down houses / changing the character of neighborhoods.

I don't care, I'm not from Vancouver. I honestly couldn't care less. I follow this thread because I have a personal interest in Canadian real estate in general, and I am always interested in a good discussion.

If I wanted to complain about too many East Asians in places where I occasionally interact with them I could easily do that for Brossard, Québec, but I won't. I think Chinese (and Vietnamese) are among the best possible immigrants, hard-working and studious, and I can't see any reason to be dissatisfied with them as a group, especially compared to other migrant groups. In Vancouver though it seems that the "locals" (which actually includes a large % of ethnic Chinese-Canadians) might have reasons to.

And even then, "complaining" just means that they think some things should be changed.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by st7860

Yes some but not all Canadians are racist. Also, Gregor meets the traditional Canadian rule which is his partner is close to 'half the man's age plus 7"

They don't meet that rule, that was my point.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by lio45

If it's dirty then one could make the argument that it's a bit of a problem from a global point of view.

I don't have a problem with people that have money in Canada. Wire transfers in are reported and cash is sniffed out by cash sniffing dogs

[whatnext]

An interesting article and charts from the G&M today comparing different reports and the varying degrees to which Canada's housing market is overvalued (or undervalued in one case!)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...-housing-market-numbers/article24152245/

[st7860]

Many people don't know that a foreigner who sells his her own residence in Canada pays taxes when selling it(Canadian's dont) so foreigners don't matter to me.

[esquire]

Chinese government clearly being racist by accusing a Vancouver real estate developer of profiting from ill-gotten gains:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...t-on-corruption-charges/article24179283/

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Globe and Mail (link above)

The Greater Vancouver area has been a prime destination for real estate investment from across the Pacific. In recent years, as mainland China’s economy has boomed, a new wave of migration began – aided in part by investor immigrant programs that helped bring about 30,000 Chinese millionaires. Their search for luxury properties has helped drive the average price of a single-detached family home in Greater Vancouver over $1.4-million, and made it the priciest area in Canada to buy a house.

How dare they say that! They should be censored.