PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[RespectCondor]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Biking somehow got coded as "liberal" in the political sense (which, when you think about it for a while, is really very odd--four wheels good, two wheels bad?). And once something gets coded as political, the chances of a meaningful conversation in mass media comment sections are negligible.

you are absolutely correct. I would say the same thing about trains, light rail, and buses as well. A large chunk of our city and America as a whole seems to think advocating for anything but cars/highways is a radically liberal transportation plan.

[themaguffin]

Yeah, you didn't really say anything wrong in your original post. You just had the temerity to have an opinion, which I guess is too much for some people to handle.

Really, you have to use a straw man? Really?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by RespectCondor

you are absolutely correct. I would say the same thing about trains, light rail, and buses as well. A large chunk of our city and America as a whole seems to think advocating for anything but cars/highways is a radically liberal transportation plan.

Indeed--the idea that such technologies have a political bias is bizarre.

It is almost enough to make you think it really is just a well-funded conspiracy to benefit certain specific businesses/investors.

[BrianTH]

It seems obvious to me that civil, substantive debate is a good thing. Of course we all fall short of those ideals at times.

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by photoLith

KDKA had another story about bike lanes today and as per usual a bunch of morons were complaining that the bikes lanes are completely useless and that bikers should get off the road, yeah thats why theres bike lanes you morons. I swear, this city would be so much better off if they just shipped all those wannabee Florida residents down there on mass bus exoduses since thats what they want so badly.

I really wonder what the actual percentage of supporters versus idiots who hate bike lanes for no reason is in this city and if most of the complainers are just suburbanites and or people from Mt. Pleasant who come into the city once a month to watch some sports game.

I live in the East End and I can't stand the bikers. Mostly because they are just idiots and don't know how to bike. I can't stand someone lazily peddling along at 10 mph in a 25 mph zone, while riding in the middle of the street. Thats great you don't have much to accomplish so you can afford to just hold up the rest of us that do. I'm by no means condoning speeding, but seriously, get off the road. My latest peeve has been those bikers who aren't happy with the layout or some other of the bike lanes and choose to still ride in the road, and again, not manage to keep with the pace of traffic. Having ridden my bike everywhere during college, these people drive me insane.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by WillyC

I live in the East End and I can't stand the bikers. Mostly because they are just idiots and don't know how to bike. I can't stand someone lazily peddling along at 10 mph in a 25 mph zone, while riding in the middle of the street. Thats great you don't have much to accomplish so you can afford to just hold up the rest of us that do. I'm by no means condoning speeding, but seriously, get off the road. My latest peeve has been those bikers who aren't happy with the layout or some other of the bike lanes and choose to still ride in the road, and again, not manage to keep with the pace of traffic. Having ridden my bike everywhere during college, these people drive me insane.

I live in the East End and I love the bikers. Mostly because they are health conscious people who have as much a right to use the road as I do. I'm perfectly ok with stepping on the brake for someone peddling along at 10 mph in a 25 mph zone, while riding in the middle of the street. That's great! I understand you also are a human being so I can afford to let you hold up the rest of us. Stay on the road, the road is your medium as well. My latest peeve has been those car drivers who aren't happy with the layout or some other of the bike lanes and choose to ride in the bike lanes, and again, not manage to keep their calm. Having ridden my bike around the East End, car drivers make me insane.

[RespectCondor]

Originally Posted by WillyC

I live in the East End and I can't stand the bikers. Mostly because they are just idiots and don't know how to bike. I can't stand someone lazily peddling along at 10 mph in a 25 mph zone, while riding in the middle of the street. Thats great you don't have much to accomplish so you can afford to just hold up the rest of us that do. I'm by no means condoning speeding, but seriously, get off the road. My latest peeve has been those bikers who aren't happy with the layout or some other of the bike lanes and choose to still ride in the road, and again, not manage to keep with the pace of traffic. Having ridden my bike everywhere during college, these people drive me insane.

I live in the East End as well. It has probably the most consistent heavy traffic of the entire city. I have a very hard time imagining you actually average 25 mph on those roads when you account for traffic. How do I come to those conclusions? the same cars that pass me are waiting at the next stop light with me. I usually average 15-18 MPH through the city and I think its not very different for cars on 25 MPH roads when you account for stop signs, stop lights, delivery trucks, etc. What I am trying to say is bikes are not slowing you down in any significant way. It might seem that way but I would argue they are only bringing down your top speed not average speed. Also its so beyond dumb to think that anyone that rides a bike has no where important to be and drivers are all in a rush to meet an important deadline, like having a car is a prerequisite for being a productive member of society. Road taxes and registration fees don't come close to paying for the roads. local, state and federal taxes pay for them. That means everyone pays for the roads even if they don't drive. Everyone gets the rights to use them.

[RespectCondor]

Also bringing top speed down isn't a bad thing way less people die (pedestrians, bikers and drivers alike)

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by RespectCondor

Also bringing top speed down isn't a bad thing way less people die (pedestrians, bikers and drivers alike)

Yes, this. People drive way too fast in the city and the police never seem to pull anyone over for speeding. I'd love to see a top speed of 25 in the whole city and have it actually enforced.

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

I live in the East End and I love the bikers. Mostly because they are health conscious people who have as much a right to use the road as I do. I'm perfectly ok with stepping on the brake for someone peddling along at 10 mph in a 25 mph zone, while riding in the middle of the street. That's great! I understand you also are a human being so I can afford to let you hold up the rest of us. Stay on the road, the road is your medium as well. My latest peeve has been those car drivers who aren't happy with the layout or some other of the bike lanes and choose to ride in the bike lanes, and again, not manage to keep their calm. Having ridden my bike around the East End, car drivers make me insane.

Trolls gonna troll.

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by RespectCondor

I live in the East End as well. It has probably the most consistent heavy traffic of the entire city. I have a very hard time imagining you actually average 25 mph on those roads when you account for traffic. How do I come to those conclusions? the same cars that pass me are waiting at the next stop light with me. I usually average 15-18 MPH through the city and I think its not very different for cars on 25 MPH roads when you account for stop signs, stop lights, delivery trucks, etc. What I am trying to say is bikes are not slowing you down in any significant way. It might seem that way but I would argue they are only bringing down your top speed not average speed. Also its so beyond dumb to think that anyone that rides a bike has no where important to be and drivers are all in a rush to meet an important deadline, like having a car is a prerequisite for being a productive member of society. Road taxes and registration fees don't come close to paying for the roads. local, state and federal taxes pay for them. That means everyone pays for the roads even if they don't drive. Everyone gets the rights to use them.

I use Ellsworth every evening around 6 pm. Yes, there is a lot of traffic, but it has definitely been backed up by people that have no business riding a bike on a street. When I used to ride my bike, I worked my 🞵🞵🞵🞵 off to make sure I was maintaining speed on these streets. So yes, people that can't hack it shouldn't be backing up traffic. After living in India and Thailand, I just don't get excited to encourage that sort of mess.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by WillyC

Trolls gonna troll.

One could argue that you are in fact being the troll in this situation. Biking is supported by not only numerous Councilmen (including Dan Gilman, the council member for the East End) but it is also supported by those in the Mayor's office. Sorry if my bike offends you, you can find me going about 17 mph in the East End neighborhoods.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by WillyC

I use Ellsworth every evening around 6 pm. Yes, there is a lot of traffic, but it has definitely been backed up by people that have no business riding a bike on a street. When I used to ride my bike, I worked my 🞵🞵🞵🞵 off to make sure I was maintaining speed on these streets. So yes, people that can't hack it shouldn't be backing up traffic. After living in India and Thailand, I just don't get excited to encourage that sort of mess.

People riding bikes have the same right to be on the road as you do, if it requires you to slow down for a mere block so that you can then pass them or just wait until they turn, then so be it. Cars and bikes can co-exist, but not if you get pissed at bikes for doing what they have a right to do.

[Jonboy1983]

Just posted within the last minute on the Post Gazette website. I wonder how soon we'll actually see a new proposal for this part of Downtown. Given the more recent residential activity, I wonder if any development will be even more ambitious that this one was:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...dropping-of-project/stories/201504280202

While on the subject of East End transportation, I saw this earlier...

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2...hborhoods-next-week/stories/201504280182

I still say that at some point, we're going to need another mode of transit besides buses. The busway idea for Fifth Avenue is a good start, however.

[daviderik]

Roads are made for motorized vehicles. Bicycle = vehicle. Person = Motor. If someone is not obeying the traffic laws and impeding traffic, they should be cited. Whether you're behind the wheel or behind the handle bars. Jerks exists in both vehicles.

[WillyC]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

One could argue that you are in fact being the troll in this situation. Biking is supported by not only numerous Councilmen (including Dan Gilman, the council member for the East End) but it is also supported by those in the Mayor's office. Sorry if my bike offends you, you can find me going about 17 mph in the East End neighborhoods.

That is a little thin skinned. There is nothing trollish about stating that I don't agree with embracing and encouraging every Tom, 🞵🞵🞵🞵, and Harry onto their bikes and out on the street. Oh my god, I disagree with a bunch of politicians and what may or may not be the majority opinion in the city.

I'm too young to say "way back then" but it really wasn't a decade ago when I had no problem with bikes on the road because they were serious cyclists. It isn't really so much the bikes as it is the people.

I stated my problems with the bikes on the street. I didn't call them hippies or liberals. My post shouldn't have elicited such a childish response.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by WillyC

That is a little thin skinned. There is nothing trollish about stating that I don't agree with embracing and encouraging every Tom, 🞵🞵🞵🞵, and Harry onto their bikes and out on the street.

I'm too young to say "way back then" but it really wasn't a decade ago when I had no problem with bikes on the road because they were serious cyclists. It isn't really so much the bikes as it is the people.

I stated my problems with the bikes on the street. I didn't call them hippies or liberals. My post shouldn't have elicited such a childish response.

Maybe I over-reacted, maybe I didn't, but the entire point of your post is that bikes should be on the road because there are crappy bikers, the same could be said for pedestrians, cars, airplanes, any really any other mode of transportation. I am simply stating that people on a bike, like myself, are often bashed as being slow, hippies, that clog up traffic. In reality, that is not true.

Also, calling my response childish is being to digress into a, "holier than thou" approach.

However, I understand that this conversation is digressing into a bit of a bad discussion, so I think I'll move back to development.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Just posted within the last minute on the Post Gazette website. I wonder how soon we'll actually see a new proposal for this part of Downtown. Given the more recent residential activity, I wonder if any development will be even more ambitious that this one was:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...dropping-of-project/stories/201504280202

Riverparc! Haven't heard that mentioned for years now.

Well we were right that those parcels are destined for residential at some point. I really hope the ambition of that project doesn't get scaled down. It IS good that the lawsuit is over now so that they can focus on a new plan. And if anything, the Pittsburgh market is showing more promise than ever since when it was announced in 2006.


Also, off to the side of that article is a new apartment development in Uptown.



Work to begin next month on new Uptown apartments
April 28, 2015 12:00 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2015/04/28/New-up/stories/201504280063

By Mark Belko / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Some four years in the making, a new 74-unit apartment complex in Uptown just blocks from Consol Energy Center is ready to roll.

Downtown-based Castlebrook Development Co. is set to break ground today on the seven-story Flats on Fifth, to be built in a parking lot at 1655 Fifth Avenue.

The $10 million development is believed to be the first in Uptown involving new construction of a large-scale, market-rate apartment building in decades.

“This is big. This is the type of development of scale that makes a significant statement,” said Jeanne McNutt, executive director of Uptown Partners, a nonprofit community developer.

The complex will feature 64 one-bedroom and 10 two-bedroom units. They will range in size from 700 to 1,200 square feet. Rents are expected to run from $1,200 to $1,500 a month, slightly lower than those commanded by many of the new apartments in adjacent Downtown.

Seems like around $1,200 is usually the entry level of new construction apartments in Pittsburgh now.

Also, this reinforces my belief that uptown and also the Hill are ideal locations for mid rise apartment infill.

[Jonboy1983]

Yeah, thanks for posting that one as well, Austinlee. I forgot about that one, and I agree it will be a nice add for Uptown. This apartment building is going to be 7 floors and will be located further up on the Hill -- away from the Civic Arena site if I'm not mistaken. There should be more of a push for residential buildings in the 10 to 20 story range the closer you get to downtown.

As for any kind of RiverParc revival, I'd like to see something taller than 30 or 35 stories proposed there. The initial proposal, if I'm not mistaken, called for a couple of 30-floor residential towers which would have made one hell of an impact on that part of town!

The market is there; it is SCREAMING for that kind of development!!

Also, as an aside, I see tons of potential in the vacant lots immediately to the immediate south of the Consol Energy Center. Something in the 6-to-12-story range should go there IMHO.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Yeah, thanks for posting that one as well, Austinlee. I forgot about that one, and I agree it will be a nice add for Uptown. This apartment building is going to be 7 floors and will be located further up on the Hill -- away from the Civic Arena site if I'm not mistaken. There should be more of a push for residential buildings in the 10 to 20 story range the closer you get to downtown.

As for any kind of RiverParc revival, I'd like to see something taller than 30 or 35 stories proposed there. The initial proposal, if I'm not mistaken, called for a couple of 30-floor residential towers which would have made one hell of an impact on that part of town!

The market is there; it is SCREAMING for that kind of development!!

Also, as an aside, I see tons of potential in the vacant lots immediately to the immediate south of the Consol Energy Center. Something in the 6-to-12-story range should go there IMHO.

I think high 20s - 30 floors with multiple towers would be pretty ideal for the Riverparc site.

As for Uptown, I really think mid rise infill is fine; The vibrancy of a mid rise city is actually a lot better than skyscrapers which aren't particularly good for pedestrian vibrancy at least the way we build them in the US.