The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

What is not right about this is that the GTA seems to get funding for 100% while Ottawa and Kitchener/Waterloo only get funding for 1/3 from the province and 1/3 from the Feds.

And Hamilton just gets dragged along.

[gunnar777]

As selected members of the press got a chance to ride the UP express yesterday, were any able to release a video of the ride to the public?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Beedok

And Hamilton just gets dragged along.

everyone relax. The Transport Minister has clearly said that they haven't finished up with the announcements yet. Lets wait out a few more weeks and see what happens.

I have a feeling they will be getting some pretty large sums of cash from the province. There is conveniently just enough left in the GTHA fund left to get Hamilton its LRT, and a grand total of $0 of the outside of GTHA fund has been announced.

In other news, the new York Concourse at Union Station will open on Monday, April 27th. So only a weekend away!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by matt602

If you've been wondering why Hamilton's LRT is basically dead at this point, this article sums up why Mississauga and Brampton got full funding for theirs, even though they started working on it later than Hamilton:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/2570/m...surges_past_hamilton_to_funding_approval

"Eight years after the Ontario Liberals promised "two light rail lines across Hamilton" as part of their 2007 re-election campaign, the deadly combination of mixed signals and politicking from the Province and a staggering lack of strategic vision from the City have sabotaged what should have been an exciting, transformative investment in Hamilton's future.

It wasn't so long ago that we were seriously talking about having LRT ready in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. Now we won't even have regular all-day GO Train service by then.

Indeed, Hamilton won't be getting the all-day GO train service we were promised until 2025. So it turns out we didn't have to choose between LRT and all-day GO after all: for the forseeable future, we're not getting either."

The article makes solid points about Hamilton political issues and failings, and could very well be right in its conclusion, but the tone on RTH tends to be a little unbalanced when everything doesn't go the way the site's regulars want it to.

They ignore the fact that the Hurontario corridor is a solidly high-ranking choice based on demand alone (and transportation planners place a high importance on that, while many people tend to ignore it, instead thinking only about potential for spin-off development... Hamilton does have both but so does Mississauga-Brampton)

And in just about every city, transit is a hotly debated topic. Bratina and other parochial pandering councilors definitely muddied the waters here, but I think the province is looking longer-term and local politics isn't as much of a consideration in that lens.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

What is not right about this is that the GTA seems to get funding for 100% while Ottawa and Kitchener/Waterloo only get funding for 1/3 from the province and 1/3 from the Feds.

I'm not sure where you're getting your 100% funding from. The Scarborough subway extension is being paid for by all three levels of government. The Crosstown is being funded by the city and the province. Just because Mississauga and Brampton seem to be getting their new LRT line fully paid for by the Ontario Government does not mean the GTA keeps getting things 100% paid for. Far from it. Also this LRT line probably means Toronto will be screwed out of a DRL for an even longer period of time now.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I'm not sure where you're getting your 100% funding from. The Scarborough subway extension is being paid for by all three levels of government. The Crosstown is being funded by the city and the province. Just because Mississauga and Brampton seem to be getting their new LRT line fully paid for by the Ontario Government does not mean the GTA keeps getting things 100% paid for. Far from it. Also this LRT line probably means Toronto will be screwed out of a DRL for an even longer period of time now.

Pretty sure the Crosstown is 100% province funded.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I'm not sure where you're getting your 100% funding from. The Scarborough subway extension is being paid for by all three levels of government. The Crosstown is being funded by the city and the province. Just because Mississauga and Brampton seem to be getting their new LRT line fully paid for by the Ontario Government does not mean the GTA keeps getting things 100% paid for. Far from it. Also this LRT line probably means Toronto will be screwed out of a DRL for an even longer period of time now.

Well, won't the RER project necessitate the DRL anyways? Unless there is an expensive second level of tracks put in at union?

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Pretty sure the Crosstown is 100% province funded.

You might be right, i think it was money the province was giving out to all municipalities to boost industry during the global economic slowdown.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Well, won't the RER project necessitate the DRL anyways? Unless there is an expensive second level of tracks put in at union?

I'm just repeating what I read in a Globe and Mail article. They were saying that metrolinx is getting full funding to use on the LRT in the 905. This would mean that their coffers will be empty after doing that for some time. As for how the DRL will cross through Union that's anybodies guess. They may just do what they do in other cities and have the one platform for both lines at Union. I would love it if Katherine Wynn had money for a DRL in her budget today but I doubt that will happen.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I'm just repeating what I read in a Globe and Mail article. They were saying that metrolinx is getting full funding to use on the LRT in the 905. This would mean that their coffers will be empty after doing that for some time. As for how the DRL will cross through Union that's anybodies guess. They may just do what they do in other cities and have the one platform for both lines at Union. I would love it if Katherine Wynn had money for a DRL in her budget today but I doubt that will happen.

There's a good chance that the DRL won't cross through Union at all, but rather go along King or Queen.

[caltrane74]

LRT lines (or even Streetcar Lines) connecting the Danforth Subway Stations to downtown might be able to do the trick of the DRL without the expense. Might be something the government will look into, if funding cannot be arranged.

[Nouvellecosse]

With Central Toronto's size and density it should have greater subway coverage even without the capacity issue that the DRL is supposed to address.

[Hybrid247]

I thought the DRL would be at the top of the list for Toronto transit projects or is the Smart Track suppose to be a "better" alternative?

[Doady]

Originally Posted by Mister F

There's a good chance that the DRL won't cross through Union at all, but rather go along King or Queen.

So the DRL is far behind the Hurontario-Main LRT in terms of planning/design/etc. and people wonder why the Hurontario-Main LRT got funding and the DRL didn't.

As for the idea of Hurontario-Main LRT preventing funding for the DRL, that's dumb. It's Toronto that decided on building $5.3 billion Eglinton Crosstown line first. That's wasn't the province's decision, that was Toronto.

$1.6 billion for Hurontario vs. $5.3 billion for Eglinton. Do the math.

If the mayors of Toronto had directed their energies toward DRL instead of promoting their own fantasy maps (e.g. Transit City, SmartTrack), the DRL woudl probably be under construction right now. The lack of DRL is purely Toronto's fault and no one else's.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

You might be right, i think it was money the province was giving out to all municipalities to boost industry during the global economic slowdown.

I don't recall any other city getting this kind of money given to them. How quickly we forget where the money actually came from. There is a world outside Toronto and if Torontonians knew that they might actually pay some attention to other cities dilemmas and not expect special treatment.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Doady

So the DRL is far behind the Hurontario-Main LRT in terms of planning/design/etc. and people wonder why the Hurontario-Main LRT got funding and the DRL didn't.

As for the idea of Hurontario-Main LRT preventing funding for the DRL, that's dumb. It's Toronto that decided on building $5.3 billion Eglinton Crosstown line first. That's wasn't the province's decision, that was Toronto.

$1.6 billion for Hurontario vs. $5.3 billion for Eglinton. Do the math.

If the mayors of Toronto had directed their energies toward DRL instead of promoting their own fantasy maps (e.g. Transit City, SmartTrack), the DRL woudl probably be under construction right now. The lack of DRL is purely Toronto's fault and no one else's.

Toronto has nothing to do with the Eglington Crosstown Line, that is purely a Metrolinx project, which makes it a provincial project since Metrolinx is a provincial agency.

If it wasn't for the province, the Crosstown wouldn't be under construction either and metro Toronto would be dithering around trying to appease the subway vote in Scarborough. Toronto has been talking about the DRL for years but can never make up its mind because every mayor and council changes the previous one's decisions. I agree there needs to be more stable funding, but the rules need to apply to Toronto as much as any other city in Ontario. Every city should have to pay for some part of the project since they are getting the benefit and it should mean that the city itself agrees with the project.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Doady

So the DRL is far behind the Hurontario-Main LRT in terms of planning/design/etc. and people wonder why the Hurontario-Main LRT got funding and the DRL didn't.

As for the idea of Hurontario-Main LRT preventing funding for the DRL, that's dumb. It's Toronto that decided on building $5.3 billion Eglinton Crosstown line first. That's wasn't the province's decision, that was Toronto.

$1.6 billion for Hurontario vs. $5.3 billion for Eglinton. Do the math.

If the mayors of Toronto had directed their energies toward DRL instead of promoting their own fantasy maps (e.g. Transit City, SmartTrack), the DRL woudl probably be under construction right now. The lack of DRL is purely Toronto's fault and no one else's.

Toronto has nothing to do with the Eglington Crosstown Line, that is purely a Metrolinx project, which makes it a provincial project since Metrolinx is a provincial agency.

If it wasn't for the province, the Crosstown wouldn't be under construction either and metro Toronto would be dithering around trying to appease the subway vote in Scarborough. Toronto has been talking about the DRL for years but can never make up its mind because every mayor and council changes the previous one's decisions. I agree there needs to be more stable funding, but the rules need to apply to Toronto as much as any other city in Ontario. Every city should have to pay for some part of the project since they are getting the benefit and it should mean that the city itself agrees with the project.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Mister F

There's a good chance that the DRL won't cross through Union at all, but rather go along King or Queen.

The reason why there is no subway network in Toronto as compared to Montreal or other major cities is that nobody wants to transfer to get to where they are going. TTC's Union stop is over crowded now, without funnelling more people there who then have to transfer to go north on the Yonge line and then walk to get somewhere along Queen or King or wait for a streetcar. Building a network also builds redundancies in the network to handle breakdowns and maintenance. King or Queen is where the DRL should go.

[MalcolmTucker]

Always thought the DRL should divert the Danforth line to the core, not be an optional transfer. Makes even more sense with Scarborough extension maybe coming.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Toronto has nothing to do with the Eglington Crosstown Line, that is purely a Metrolinx project, which makes it a provincial project since Metrolinx is a provincial agency.

If it wasn't for the province, the Crosstown wouldn't be under construction either and metro Toronto would be dithering around trying to appease the subway vote in Scarborough. Toronto has been talking about the DRL for years but can never make up its mind because every mayor and council changes the previous one's decisions. I agree there needs to be more stable funding, but the rules need to apply to Toronto as much as any other city in Ontario. Every city should have to pay for some part of the project since they are getting the benefit and it should mean that the city itself agrees with the project.

So Transit City was not Toronto's idea and the city never had anything to do with it. I must have been mistaken then. I apologize.