The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

$13.5 billion in improvements would hardly qualify as "small". It would be one of the largest infrastructure projects on the continent.

First of all, it should not be costing that much. But that is a whole other issue.

Markville is also only a regional mall, you don't get people across the region travelling to it like you do for Yorkdale and the Pacific Mall.

What does that matter? Are these corridors supposed to provide better rapid transit within their local areas as well?

[quote]
Centennial would require an overly difficult push through old unionville with some complicated grade separations and possibly requiring tunneling to ensure the preservation of heritage structures located directly adjacent to the rail corridor. Not worth it to reach a station a couple hundred meters from a mall that has questionable ridership demand and almost 0 surrounding density.

If you push north of Unionville, you would go all the way to Mount Joy.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

More useless comparisons (to one of the most corrupt cities out there no less) and unsupported grandiose ideas other than to spend money haphazardly. The city has the ridership so why shouldn't RER be centred there. In time, it can be expanded outwards as the opportunities and ridership present themselves. I see no reason to spend billions and billions to develop new corridors when, in all likelihood, opportunities like the corridor in Brampton could be purchased and developed in less time.

The 905 is where transit needs to be vastly improved. This is where the majority of traffic issues are, and where transit has not kept up.

The GO Train network should be carrying 1 to 2 million riders a day, if not more.
And we are not going to get there unless we do more.

[Innsertnamehere]

[QUOTE=miketoronto;6998014]First of all, it should not be costing that much. But that is a whole other issue.



What does that matter? Are these corridors supposed to provide better rapid transit within their local areas as well?

Centennial would require an overly difficult push through old unionville with some complicated grade separations and possibly requiring tunneling to ensure the preservation of heritage structures located directly adjacent to the rail corridor. Not worth it to reach a station a couple hundred meters from a mall that has questionable ridership demand and almost 0 surrounding density.

If you push north of Unionville, you would go all the way to Mount Joy.

If you push north of Centennial you hit the other tough spot around Markham, which additionally has an equally difficult section to grade separate, which includes a station located within a historic context and two at grade crossings and a river directly adjacent to it. Another tunnel, probably, to achieve full grade separation, with a trenched station.

All that to serve maybe 100,000 people seems like a bit much.

As for the cost, lets wait and see the itemized list of costs before we scream bloody murder. The plan includes essentially scrapping a large commuter fleet, dozens of grade separations, rail to rail separations, 250+km of electrification, hundreds of kilometers of new rail lines, huge station expansions and additions, etc. Its not a small project. we are essentially building 200km of metro lines.

[1overcosc]

Possibility that Kathleen Wynne is going to be visiting Ottawa on May 7th, to deliver provincial dollars for Phase 2 of the Confederation Line, by putting together two puzzle pieces: 1) A scheduled visit by Premier Wynne to Ottawa on May 7th, and 2) A notice within OC Transpo that a 'transit political event' is occurring on May 7th.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ontario Newsroom

News Release

Ontario Moving Forward with Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit Project

April 21, 2015

Project to Bring 23 KM, 26 Stops of Light Rail Transit to Mississauga, Brampton

As part of the largest infrastructure investment in Ontario's history, Ontario is moving ahead with the Hurontario-Main Light Rail Transit (LRT) project.

This LRT is a new public transit project, led by Metrolinx, that will bring 23 kilometres of rapid transit to Mississauga and Brampton. The LRT line is proposed to have 26 stops, including three stops within downtown Mississauga and two stops in downtown Brampton. The service will move more people faster through these corridors than the existing bus service.

Through the Moving Ontario Forward plan the government is investing in priority rapid transit projects that will connect to the GO Transit network and other transit systems across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA). These priority rapid transit projects will increase transit ridership, reduce travel times, manage congestion, connect people to jobs, and improve the economy.

On April 16, 2015, Ontario moved ahead with its plan to unlock the value of certain public assets. This will provide the province with approximately $4 billion to build new transit and other priority infrastructure projects through Moving Ontario Forward.

Investing more than $130 billion over 10 years in public infrastructure ­-- the largest infrastructure investment in the province's history -- is part of the government's plan for Ontario. The four-part plan is building Ontario up by investing in people's talents and skills, building new public infrastructure like roads and transit, creating a dynamic, innovative environment where business thrives, and building a secure retirement savings plan.


QUICK FACTS

The province’s Moving Ontario Forward plan will make $31.5 billion available over the next 10 years for investments in priority infrastructure projects across the province and is expected to support over 20,000 jobs per year, on average, in construction and related industries.
Under Moving Ontario Forward, around $16 billion is being allocated to transit and transportation projects in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA), and about $15 billion available for investment in roads, bridges, transit and other critical infrastructure in the rest of the province.
The Hurontario-Main LRT will provide a crucial link between many of the region’s existing transit lines, including GO Transit’s Kitchener, Milton and Lakeshore West rail lines, Brampton Züm, and the Mississauga Transitway BRT.

[caltrane74]

Exciting News!

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Exciting News!

This is a case of the civic politicians in Hamilton all being from Missouri, the show me state. I would presume that after Kitchener/Waterloo and Brampton/Mississauga are constructed and operating, Hamilton will start to see some wisdom in building LRT.

We only need more patience before we can be excited again.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

The 905 is where transit needs to be vastly improved. This is where the majority of traffic issues are, and where transit has not kept up.

The GO Train network should be carrying 1 to 2 million riders a day, if not more.
And we are not going to get there unless we do more.

Of course transit needs to be improved in the 905 but, you're "build it and they will come" mentality is short sighted. It will take time to develop ridership there. Better to make incremental improvements than running up operational deficits.

Still get the impression you haven't moved beyond a vision of a dense commercial core surrounded by bedroom communities with commutes in the tens of kilometres supplied by express transit.

[SkahHigh]

Great news for te Hurontario LRT! It'll be added to the list as soon as construction starts.

[Innsertnamehere]

which is 2018.

[gunnar777]

Such great news about Toronto's nascent GO RER, and I feel that it will begin to change the GTA from a drive-everywhere region into one where even middle-aged men in the suburbs will take the train throughout the day. The whole GO RER system: the layout of lines radiating from a central station with no crossing, routing along highways, and 15-60 minute frequency remind me of the electrified system in Perth, Australia.

My main gripe with GO that I don't think RER will fix, is that, like the Perth system, so many of the stops, particularly on the Lakeshore line, are in these behemoth stations located on massive highways. They are so far out of the way of, and inaccessible by foot to residential areas. Each station commands a massive footprint that makes getting to the platform a trek in and of itself, and many are forced to include a parking garage. By contrast, while living in Sydney, I noticed that the majority of railway stations there were located on quiet streets in residential areas, and seemingly everyone walked to the train from their home (no need to take a connecting bus to the station) and boarded a reasonably frequent train from one of the hundreds of electrified stations. I hope that future GO stations will be built in more pedestrian-accessible locations.

[1overcosc]

It depends where. The Lakeshore line does tend to hug highways, but the Stouffville & Kitchener lines run through communities for the most part.

[1overcosc]

Toronto's UPX to begin service on June 6, according to Premier Wynne's twitter.

[Doady]

I don't see the point in "RER" service for Barrie Line at all. The Richmond Hill line also seemed kind of limited but okay. Stouffeville and Milton are easily the best, followed by Kitchener, then Lakeshore.

They should also consider a Crosstown line, like connect the 407 Transitway and Mississauga Transitway and convert them to rail.

[matt602]

If you've been wondering why Hamilton's LRT is basically dead at this point, this article sums up why Mississauga and Brampton got full funding for theirs, even though they started working on it later than Hamilton:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/2570/m...surges_past_hamilton_to_funding_approval

"Eight years after the Ontario Liberals promised "two light rail lines across Hamilton" as part of their 2007 re-election campaign, the deadly combination of mixed signals and politicking from the Province and a staggering lack of strategic vision from the City have sabotaged what should have been an exciting, transformative investment in Hamilton's future.

It wasn't so long ago that we were seriously talking about having LRT ready in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. Now we won't even have regular all-day GO Train service by then.

Indeed, Hamilton won't be getting the all-day GO train service we were promised until 2025. So it turns out we didn't have to choose between LRT and all-day GO after all: for the forseeable future, we're not getting either."

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by matt602

If you've been wondering why Hamilton's LRT is basically dead at this point, this article sums up why Mississauga and Brampton got full funding for theirs, even though they started working on it later than Hamilton:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/2570/m...surges_past_hamilton_to_funding_approval

"Eight years after the Ontario Liberals promised "two light rail lines across Hamilton" as part of their 2007 re-election campaign, the deadly combination of mixed signals and politicking from the Province and a staggering lack of strategic vision from the City have sabotaged what should have been an exciting, transformative investment in Hamilton's future.

It wasn't so long ago that we were seriously talking about having LRT ready in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. Now we won't even have regular all-day GO Train service by then.

Indeed, Hamilton won't be getting the all-day GO train service we were promised until 2025. So it turns out we didn't have to choose between LRT and all-day GO after all: for the forseeable future, we're not getting either."

Looks like they're dropping the 'H' from the GTHA transit improvements.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by matt602

If you've been wondering why Hamilton's LRT is basically dead at this point, this article sums up why Mississauga and Brampton got full funding for theirs, even though they started working on it later than Hamilton:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/2570/m...surges_past_hamilton_to_funding_approval

"Eight years after the Ontario Liberals promised "two light rail lines across Hamilton" as part of their 2007 re-election campaign, the deadly combination of mixed signals and politicking from the Province and a staggering lack of strategic vision from the City have sabotaged what should have been an exciting, transformative investment in Hamilton's future.

It wasn't so long ago that we were seriously talking about having LRT ready in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games. Now we won't even have regular all-day GO Train service by then.

Indeed, Hamilton won't be getting the all-day GO train service we were promised until 2025. So it turns out we didn't have to choose between LRT and all-day GO after all: for the forseeable future, we're not getting either."

After reading the article it really sounds like Hamilton dropped the ball, the province can't be held to blame for this one. Bravo Hamilton's civic leaders.

[jigglysquishy]

Talking to transportation planners it certainly sounds like the City of Hamilton is the reason it's not going forward.

Removing the bus lanes pushed everything back. The province won't fund projects if the City is unwilling to be a partner.

[Innsertnamehere]

lets just wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if we get an announcement soon.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

lets just wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if we get an announcement soon.

What is not right about this is that the GTA seems to get funding for 100% while Ottawa and Kitchener/Waterloo only get funding for 1/3 from the province and 1/3 from the Feds.