Calgary International Airport II

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by skyhigh953

Does anyone know the logic behind WestJet's logic for timing flights to Hawaii with their new 767? Being from Saskatoon, we have to connect through YYC to get most places, and their early morning timing of Hawaii flights for the upcoming season baffles me. There is not enough time to connect, so options through both YYC and YEG involve staying overnight; or flying to YYC then YVR. Not an issue with Air Canada - great timed connection through YYC.

Is Westjet's early morning Hawaii scheduling out of necessity, or will the planes be full anyway so they don't care about connections? Just curious if anyone knows.

I suspect that Westjet would prefer Saskatchewan and East connect to Hawaii more often through YVR, so that they can maintain existing frequencies.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by skyhigh953

Is Westjet's early morning Hawaii scheduling out of necessity, or will the planes be full anyway so they don't care about connections? Just curious if anyone knows.

The AB Hawaii schedule is sort of done out of necessity.

Westjet has found that early morning departures and late evening returns are very popular for AB residents because the avoid a redeye on the return. WS does get a premium for this schedule through more discounted flight being last minute routing through YVR.

In order to make the Hawaii schedule work for AB residents, the flights have to leave at 7:30-8:30am, much too soon for connections.

Secondly, connections are done over YVR to make the route and the station more profitable. Before the merger with CP, YVR was end-of-the-line for AC and this hurt station profitability. WS now has this same problem.

I say that AB-Hawaii schedule is sort of done out of necessity because there is a fix for WS. Namely, complete an open jaw YYC-Hawaii-YVR and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I am thinking YYC-OGG will be handed over to rouge and YYC-NRT will go 788 sooner than later anyway. Probably the only reason YYC-OGG hasn't been rouged yet is YYC-NRT. YVR-KOA is the only other Hawaiian route operated by mainline 763.

My crystal ball is starting to tell me that AC might not rouge YYC-OGG services, especially if they start YYC-PEK. The current mainline aircraft rotation works well for AC and rouge would simply muck up YYC-NRT schedule. Finally AC is not getting anymore 788s all future deliveries will be 789s. The 789 is a large airplane to upguage YYC-NRT while at the same time launching YYC-PEK.

Originally Posted by PPAR

I suspect that Westjet would prefer Saskatchewan and East connect to Hawaii more often through YVR, so that they can maintain existing frequencies.

The force is strong with PPAR.

[Bigtime]

I'm all for YYC-OGG staying on mainline metal.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Cage

My crystal ball is starting to tell me that AC might not rouge YYC-OGG services, especially if they start YYC-PEK. The current mainline aircraft rotation works well for AC and rouge would simply muck up YYC-NRT schedule. Finally AC is not getting anymore 788s all future deliveries will be 789s. The 789 is a large airplane to upguage YYC-NRT while at the same time launching YYC-PEK.

I think what will happen is certain 788 routes will go 789 and then the 788s can trickle down the system for routes like YYC-NRT and possibly YYC-PEK. It's going to be tough for AC to justify not putting rouge on the rest of their leisure routes from Western Canada.

[Bigtime]

So I attended the YYC AGM this morning. Nothing new that we don't already know. They mentioned that a focus this year will be service to China.

Question period was kinda boring, except for the lady that was there to complain about the companies shipping out horses for slaughter in Asia and Europe (I'm sure Europe does). She couldn't understand that YYC has no jurisdiction in the handling of the animals or what cargo gets shipped through. Upon leaving there was a small group of them protesting along McCall Way about it.

So exciting!

Oh no wait, right at the end of his presentation Atkinson declared "YEG sucks, you're going down suckas".

[Cage]

I was there and asked the question about summer 2016 schedule and capacity constraints with regard to existing facilities being unable to handle Westjet widebody, AC rouge 763, AC mainline Dreamliners, and others.

Also I asked on Twitter regarding putting up the excellent walkthru videos of the new terminal. When they are up at yyc.com will let the SSP avgeek team know.

sadly, the news media will likely focus on the save the horses crack pot crowd that was protesting outside the Aerospace Museum and made a comment noted by Bigtime.

[cala]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So I attended the YYC AGM this morning. Nothing new that we don't already know. They mentioned that a focus this year will be service to China.

Question period was kinda boring, except for the lady that was there to complain about the companies shipping out horses for slaughter in Asia and Europe (I'm sure Europe does). She couldn't understand that YYC has no jurisdiction in the handling of the animals or what cargo gets shipped through. Upon leaving there was a small group of them protesting along McCall Way about it.

So exciting!

Oh no wait, right at the end of his presentation Atkinson declared "YEG sucks, you're going down suckas".

are we going to have direct flight to China this year? I heard China Hainan airline is working on that.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by cala

are we going to have direct flight to China this year? I heard China Hainan airline is working on that.

I'm fairly confident we will see YYC-PEK in the summer 2016 schedule. The only major hiccup is potential for the Competition Tribunal to thwart AC-CA joint venture, much like what happened to the AC-UA JV (AC has the ability to enter into a JV with UA, however with restrictions on what can be done with the hub-to-hub flights this deal was DOA. AC and UA never formalized the agreement).

Optimism regarding summer 2016 was the main focus of my question to CAA. WS will have 4 widebody high density 763s. AC will be well into the dreamliner implementation with 789s outnumbering 788s, AC rouge high density 763s will have significant numbers that AC can provide a competitive response to WS wide body. KLM has announced daily 772 upgrade from 332/333 flying. It will be a great year if only some of these ideas come to fruition.

The major problem is that any new terminal capacity will come online after the mid June to Mid September summer peak. At a minimum customs and security lines will be overcapacity during peak periods, even with all lanes operational. Checkin capacity is relieved primarily by technological advancements like mobile and electronic checkin.

The bag carousels will be strained to capacity, International arrival facilities for bag carousels are all ready strained. The prospect of 2-4 high density 763s arriving would push international facilities over the edge.

Fro a gate perspective, it is likely AC and WS may have to operate international departures from their respective domestic concourses. This will have an impact on turn around times for the hub airlines. Additionally if more international European flights have to depart from concourse B, this will have a significant negative impact on Concourse C security times. For clarity under this scenario, KLM, BA and Charter flights move to concourse B to make room for WS wide body services on concourse A international gates.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

I was there and asked the question about summer 2016 schedule and capacity constraints with regard to existing facilities being unable to handle Westjet widebody, AC rouge 763, AC mainline Dreamliners, and others.

Great Question Cage! (and thanks for starting out by saying something positive, I don't remember your exact words but it was something good).

I am always impressed by people who are able to ask questions at the AGM in front of everyone. It takes guts.

TBH I'm not sure I understood the Horse lady, I get that she is concerned about the treatment of live animals at YYC but isn't it kind of ironic given that they are about to be slaughtered at their destination anyways? Not trying to be insensitive, maybe I am missing something. On a lighter note, I would argue that treatment of pax by airlines isn't much better these days..

The annual report is available online for viewing and download - I like the direction they took with the graphics and design this year (pseudo-hipster).

http://www.yyc.com/en-us/media/publications/2014annualreport.aspx

Looking forward to AGM 2016!

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by Cage

I was there and asked the question about summer 2016 schedule and capacity constraints with regard to existing facilities being unable to handle Westjet widebody, AC rouge 763, AC mainline Dreamliners, and others.

Also I asked on Twitter regarding putting up the excellent walkthru videos of the new terminal. When they are up at yyc.com will let the SSP avgeek team know.

sadly, the news media will likely focus on the save the horses crack pot crowd that was protesting outside the Aerospace Museum and made a comment noted by Bigtime.

Just curious what answer did they give to your question?

[Blader]

I don't believe horses are being shipped for slaughter at their destination - they're slaughtered in Alberta abatoirs and shipped as horsemeat, no? Shipping live animals is very expensive.

[Nick]

I believe that's the case. Cargolux parks over at Apron 9 now in the NW corner of the airport. I believe they are the ones who fly the horsemeat overseas. The livestock barn is still at Apron 2, but will be moved to 9 coming up.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Blader

I don't believe horses are being shipped for slaughter at their destination - they're slaughtered in Alberta abatoirs and shipped as horsemeat, no? Shipping live animals is very expensive.

If that is the case, would the horse people be upset about the Show Jumping horses? If so I have absolutely no way to believe horses that are worth so much to their owners would be treated in the way that lady was describing. It would be counter-intuitive to the interests of the owners.

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Just curious what answer did they give to your question?

Garth pretty much said "We're open for business for anyone that wants to serve YYC.", he did mention that the reality of the airport is peaks and valleys and they'll do what they can to serve everyone.

So reading between the lines, expect some pain for another year and a bit. Really is there much else that can be done?

[cyeg66]

Reading Cage's comments about the boondoggle which are WS 763 introduction, and KLM/BA ops likely needing concourse changes, etc, isn't it funny to look back at all the flack thrown the CAA's way for going ahead with such a large expansion? By the time the new wing opens, the airport's capacity will have been up against the rev limiter for at least a couple of years! Perhaps the haters just need to accept that the airport authority has some knowledge as to what they're doing. The airport now has plenty of runway capacity but very little more airport capacity. I think Bigtime's right, they may be in for a little bit of hurt for the next 18 months. In a pro-business province like Oilberta, that's not good.

[Bigtime]

Remote stands!

Are those funky buses from YMX still around to buy?

[Pegasus]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

If that is the case, would the horse people be upset about the Show Jumping horses? If so I have absolutely no way to believe horses that are worth so much to their owners would be treated in the way that lady was describing. It would be counter-intuitive to the interests of the owners.

The show jumping horses are treated like royalty when they fly - understandably as they are very valuable animals (see the CTV video on the YYC expansion - there was a link on this blog a few weeks ago). The media reported the protester's concern being that the less fortunate horses destined for slaughterhouses in Asia are shipped in containers that are too small - the horses cannot even stand completely upright apparently. One can't also help wondering how they are treated en-route!

On the flying front, sounds like summer 2016 international arrivals at YYC are going to be a nightmare (it took me well over 1/2 an hour to clear immigration coming in from the USA a couple of weeks ago) - and it will only get worse until the new terminal opens.

[Trans Canada]

Off topic, but has there been any word on a Run/Roam the Runway event this year? I recall it was a one-time event but someone at the Calgary Airport Authority suggested they'd look into it as an annual tradition. Is it logistically possible to shut down an operating runway for a public event?


BOBO27464 by Bokimon-, on Flickr

[Bigtime]

I highly doubt it, I treated that event as a one-off made possible by the unique circumstance of it being a new runway.

[Blader]

I found this video of live horse shipments from Calgary to Japan. I'm surprised - I was unaware.
https://youtu.be/Ji5n8siQGAw
Oh, and this National Post article.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/alberta-horsemeat

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I highly doubt it, I treated that event as a one-off made possible by the unique circumstance of it being a new runway.

Yeah I'm almost certain that was a one time thing. The logistics of closing an active runway and then having thousands of people on an active airfield "just for fun" would be far too cumbersome and risky.

There may however be some "roaming" of the IFP pre-opening for the public. No running tho!