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  #7141  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 2:11 PM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 View Post
I disagree. The name "The Gallery" conjures up weird memories for a lot of us. I could see this becoming "The Outlets"
The Outlets Gallery at Jefferson Station Market East
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  #7142  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 2:12 PM
Plokoon11 Plokoon11 is offline
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Here I was thinking the Gallery was a art museum, I was wondering why is it attracting a lot of negative activity?
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  #7143  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 2:29 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
Glad you pointed out people can find lots of answers in the article that was posted. Would probably be best to check it out before speculating or asking questions that are clearly answered.
Thanks Summers for answering my question. 1487 - this is the purpose of your post? There's no need to be a 🞵🞵🞵🞵.
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  #7144  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 2:32 PM
Mappy Mappy is offline
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How about renaming it "Jefferson Walk" and continuing it south to intersect with an extended Jewelers Row and connect to Jefferson University?



The former "Gallery' section opens to a public plaza (where Burlington Coat Factory is) in front of Jefferson Station (which gets a new grand entrance).
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  #7145  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 2:50 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Originally Posted by philatonian View Post
LOL ditto. And is it just me, or has Market East had a mysteriously large number of people lately, especially on the weekends? I know it's spring, but I've lived near ME for 8 years and I've never seen it this packed. Good for Philly. I bet PREIT wishes they could be cashing in on it.
Yea, I think increases in the residential population nearby have helped. But I think the big factor has been increased activity at the Convention Center. Imagine what it'll be like when the World Meeting of Families is happening.
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  #7146  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 6:04 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Off topic, but I just wanted to spread the good news..(sarcasm)

I just got notice in the mail from the City of Philadelphia (Office of Property Assessment).....again....Real Estate taxes higher for 2016.

Still, Philly is not bad at all for Real Estate taxes, it's the wage tax that kills business, oh, and the business tax too.

P.S> The 8% sales tax too...lol
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  #7147  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 6:55 PM
br323206 br323206 is offline
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Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly View Post
Off topic, but I just wanted to spread the good news..(sarcasm)

I just got notice in the mail from the City of Philadelphia (Office of Property Assessment).....again....Real Estate taxes higher for 2016.

Still, Philly is not bad at all for Real Estate taxes, it's the wage tax that kills business, oh, and the business tax too.

P.S> The 8% sales tax too...lol
Well, by the time you exclude food, clothes, and medicine the sales tax isn't that bad of a hit IMO.
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  #7148  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 8:20 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly View Post
Off topic, but I just wanted to spread the good news..(sarcasm)

I just got notice in the mail from the City of Philadelphia (Office of Property Assessment).....again....Real Estate taxes higher for 2016.

Still, Philly is not bad at all for Real Estate taxes, it's the wage tax that kills business, oh, and the business tax too.

P.S> The 8% sales tax too...lol
press release about the reassessment says over 30k people will see reductions as a result of the new info. Some will benefit, some wont. Philly's mixed tax reliance is better than suburban reliance on property tax- especially for seniors and those of modest income. The bad about many suburban towns is that everyone faces high property tax bills regardless of income. While wage tax is a flat tax, its still more fair than inflated property tax bills that hit everyone equally regardless of income.
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  #7149  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 8:29 PM
Nightman Nightman is offline
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Canal Street Entertainment Complex/Live Nation/HOB pushing forward. I didn't know it was already under construction/rehab. Will be good for the waterfront.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/201504...y_to_become_Live_Nation_music_venue.html
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  #7150  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 8:46 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
press release about the reassessment says over 30k people will see reductions as a result of the new info. Some will benefit, some wont. Philly's mixed tax reliance is better than suburban reliance on property tax- especially for seniors and those of modest income. The bad about many suburban towns is that everyone faces high property tax bills regardless of income. While wage tax is a flat tax, its still more fair than inflated property tax bills that hit everyone equally regardless of income.
Yes, Philly is very fair when it comes to property taxes, even though we 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 when there's a slight increase. I recall my Uncle's house in Springfield cost him over 9K a year just for r/e taxes. My Uncle cried to me, "I'm on Social Security, how the hell do they expect me to pay the taxes??" My cousin had to move in to my Uncle's(with her husband and family) just to meet ends. Also, in 2005 I lived in Florida (the Keys) for a brief period when I moved down there to be with my brother while he was fighting cancer. I took on a clerk's position, just to keep me going, and I was amazed at my salary, because of no city or state tax. I was only making $10 an hour, but my pay looked like I was making 40G's a year! Plus you didn't need to get your vehicle inspected. Florida is very strange though. I was hit with 3 hurricanes, and my brother passed away from his illness. I was so depressed, I moved back home. So, Philly may have its ups and downs, but at least the hurricane threats are not as bad!
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  #7151  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 8:59 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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As much as I hate to continue this topic, let me say this: the reason people 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and moan about taxes in Philadelphia is not so much the tax itself; as people have said it's much smaller than RE taxes in the burbs.

The problem is the VALUE, i.e. what citizens get in return for their taxes. If Philadelphia had an excellent school system, clean streets, and low crime, I'd imagine people would be more accepting of higher taxes. But that's not the case. And when you factor in the wage tax, Philly's tax burden is probably still a little lower than in the burbs but the burbs offer WAY more value, in terms of schools and other services.

For wealthy empty nesters and millenials (most of whom don't have kids in Phila schools) who CHOOSE to live in Philly, a small tax increase is no big deal, because Philly offers things that the burbs can't match. But for your blue collar folks raising a family in the Northeast who don't give a damn about walkability, hipster bars, and trendy restaurants, these tax increases (if they were subject to one), present a real tangible reason to move to the suburbs. And lord knows that empty nesters and millenials can't support everyone else. You need a healthy middle class.
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  #7152  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 9:10 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Mappy View Post
How about renaming it "Jefferson Walk" and continuing it south to intersect with an extended Jewelers Row and connect to Jefferson University?



The former "Gallery' section opens to a public plaza (where Burlington Coat Factory is) in front of Jefferson Station (which gets a new grand entrance).
Mappy, that skyscraper(the tallest) at (8th & Market?) Is that a real proposal or was this something that was proposed, and never built?
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  #7153  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2015, 10:44 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
As much as I hate to continue this topic, let me say this: the reason people 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and moan about taxes in Philadelphia is not so much the tax itself; as people have said it's much smaller than RE taxes in the burbs.

The problem is the VALUE, i.e. what citizens get in return for their taxes. If Philadelphia had an excellent school system, clean streets, and low crime, I'd imagine people would be more accepting of higher taxes. But that's not the case. And when you factor in the wage tax, Philly's tax burden is probably still a little lower than in the burbs but the burbs offer WAY more value, in terms of schools and other services.

For wealthy empty nesters and millenials (most of whom don't have kids in Phila schools) who CHOOSE to live in Philly, a small tax increase is no big deal, because Philly offers things that the burbs can't match. But for your blue collar folks raising a family in the Northeast who don't give a damn about walkability, hipster bars, and trendy restaurants, these tax increases (if they were subject to one), present a real tangible reason to move to the suburbs. And lord knows that empty nesters and millenials can't support everyone else. You need a healthy middle class.
Why even act like you hate to talk about this topic when you do it constantly? Hell if I'll be assed to go find them but I distinctively remember you going on this exact same tirade about taxes vs. value at least once before. If you really do hate to discuss the topic, please do yourself and everyone a favor and just don't.

ANYWAY, back on topic, I'm really sort of shocked about all of the negative response about the gallery redesign. At best most seem blase about it.

The redesign of the gallery if it indeed proceeds as has been laid out, would easily be the second most transformative project currently ongoing in Philadelphia behind only the CITC. The CITC due to not only the many quality jobs the project is bringing to the city, its amazing quality and expansive size, but most importantly what it does to position Philadelphia as a tech leader and all the smaller technology companies it is already luring to Philadelphia simply due to Comcast's gravitational pull makes the CITC stand alone as the most important project in Philadelphia.

But beyond that I really think I would put the gallery redesign second.

I mean honestly go and look at this ugly monstrosity right now. Block after block of ugly blank walls facing what is supposed to be the Philadelphia's main street. Worst of all its position directly next to the convention center and Independence National Historic Park means that it is probably the one part of the city that nearly every single visitor to this city sees. I work in the tourism industry. I can't tell you how many people come to this city and their first impression is walking from their center city hotel or the convention center down market street to the liberty bell and wondering just what in the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 Philadelphia is doing.

It's not just a huge black eye for the city, it sits as such a prominent location that it is an unavoidable black eye. Philadelphia has improved so much in the past 20 or so years but this monstrosity allows visitors to this city to reaffirm their negative views of this city as soon as they arrive in town. Making the gallery even respectable would be a huge leap forward for this city.

And to my mind what I'm reading about the redesign seems to indicate it will be far more than respectable when finished. The redesign will not only achieves what it absolutely needed to in opening up the mall to Market Street and bringing the main entrance to street level, but if the renderings can be trusted it will be truly nice when completed. Also the caliber of store that they are expecting, gucci and burberry outlets along with standard mall stores and "Destination restaurants" is more than I thought we could reasonably expect.

Despite living here forever the negativity never ceases to amaze me. A transformative project that will tidy up one of Philadelphia's most visible corridors is finally within reach. This is literally something that I've heard talked about for decades. It's finally happening, but the focus instead goes to bitching about the name or the noting that the paneling at the top looks cheap.
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  #7154  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 12:30 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
As much as I hate to continue this topic, let me say this: the reason people 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and moan about taxes in Philadelphia is not so much the tax itself; as people have said it's much smaller than RE taxes in the burbs.

The problem is the VALUE, i.e. what citizens get in return for their taxes. If Philadelphia had an excellent school system, clean streets, and low crime, I'd imagine people would be more accepting of higher taxes. But that's not the case. And when you factor in the wage tax, Philly's tax burden is probably still a little lower than in the burbs but the burbs offer WAY more value, in terms of schools and other services.

For wealthy empty nesters and millenials (most of whom don't have kids in Phila schools) who CHOOSE to live in Philly, a small tax increase is no big deal, because Philly offers things that the burbs can't match. But for your blue collar folks raising a family in the Northeast who don't give a damn about walkability, hipster bars, and trendy restaurants, these tax increases (if they were subject to one), present a real tangible reason to move to the suburbs. And lord knows that empty nesters and millenials can't support everyone else. You need a healthy middle class.
The argument doesnt hold water when you look at the facts. The areas in the PA suburbs with the most oppressive tax burdens are areas of limited means and mediocre schools. Conversely, some of the areas with highly rated districts have relatively affordable property taxes because tjhey have the benefit of being host to commercial properties (think K of P mall) that pay a HUGE proportion of the local tax bill. It's really a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 shoot in the suburbs and its not a direct correlation between cost and quality. Easter Delco has some of the highest real estate taxes in the region and no one moves out there for the schools. Philly taxes dont increase in a vacuum, they are going up across the region. People may decide that the increased costs (cost of living and taxes) of moving are a worthwhile trade off for "better" schools, but they are not moving because its more economical. I would say its nearly impossible for a middle class family to move outside of the city to a superior middle class area and actually save money. As for the notion that crossing the city line yields utopian quality of life and great service- I would just say that the roads I drive on outside the city are as deplorable as what we have in Philly. Some problems and complaints are bigger than the political boundaries of the city.
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  #7155  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 1:06 PM
volguus zildrohar's Avatar
volguus zildrohar volguus zildrohar is offline
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Originally Posted by Mappy View Post
How about renaming it "Jefferson Walk" and continuing it south to intersect with an extended Jewelers Row and connect to Jefferson University?



The former "Gallery' section opens to a public plaza (where Burlington Coat Factory is) in front of Jefferson Station (which gets a new grand entrance).
This is similar to a winning proposal from a competition held by The Ed Bacon Foundation a few years ago that looked at ways of improving The Gallery. I loved it.



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  #7156  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 1:39 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
Why even act like you hate to talk about this topic when you do it constantly? Hell if I'll be assed to go find them but I distinctively remember you going on this exact same tirade about taxes vs. value at least once before. If you really do hate to discuss the topic, please do yourself and everyone a favor and just don't.
I wasn't even the one that brought up taxes and to say I do so constantly is a bit ridiculous. And what's with all the bad vibes here lately? I'm a long time poster and no one should have to feel like walking on eggshells when posting. You have a problem with someone's post? Don't be a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 - just counter the argument and leave the personal attacks out.

In the news, the Radian building at 1700 Market is getting a nice addition. Doing away with a small plaza (which CC needs less, not more of) and helping balance the ugly brutalist building with some modern glass while at the same time extending the street's viability (past 5pm) with a few restaurants. http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/the-i...eans-new-restaurants-at-1700-Market.html
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  #7157  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 2:31 PM
joemustardo joemustardo is offline
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What is that tall building in the rendering?
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  #7158  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 2:39 PM
Mappy Mappy is offline
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Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly View Post
Mappy, that skyscraper(the tallest) at (8th & Market?) Is that a real proposal or was this something that was proposed, and never built?
None of this has been proposed (just my ideas) except the East Market and Chestnut walk development that is under construction now at 11th/Market
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  #7159  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 2:46 PM
Mappy Mappy is offline
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This is similar to a winning proposal from a competition held by The Ed Bacon Foundation a few years ago that looked at ways of improving The Gallery. I loved it.
Yeah, I really liked that one too! I always look at all the Ed Bacon Competition submissions that are available to see if there are any good concepts to integrate with the official plans that are out there. With that one I like the idea of using pedestrian corridors to connect the adjacent neighborhoods.

However I thing the design was a little too 'Former-Dilworth-Plaza-esk' (e.g. brutalist, burried, mazes) and the highrises where not ideally located. Here I was trying to place things in a way that would be more realistic for developers to consider, and making the main public space more open. Also His was a 'blow the whole thing up' approach, and that isnt the way things are going now, so I'm integrating the PREIT redevelopment and redesigns.

You can see some more angels here http://imgur.com/a/iixZd#AQoszvr
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  #7160  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2015, 6:01 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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[/QUOTE]

Thanks Mappy and Steve for the info. Mappy, the city should put you in charge of all construction projects 400 ft. and taller!

^^That proposal looks too nice to just get buried in red tape. That's sweet!

^^The Tallest skyscraper above looks like Center City Tower that was proposed in W Hotel and Ritz portion of land. I have a feeling this will show up one day as a City proposal of some sort. It's getting tired of being moved around, it's time to settle on a location.
Maybe a design for Comcast 3?
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