YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by casper

I am all for YVR becoming the mega hub of the world. However is it not faster to transfer in Toronto (shorter length) for travel between Brazil and Shanghai.

If I were running Air Canada, I would not care if its Toronto or Vancouver, I would use the city that provides the best competitive advantage over Delta and others. They also serve Rio and San Paulo non-stop from Toronto.

It also boils down to population catchment when it comes to hubbing. YYZ has about 100 million people within a two and half hour flight of it. Distance to various destinations is a factor for sure but keep in mind Winnipeg is also one of the most centrally and conveniently located transportation hubs on the continent, yet it will never be a true hub for any airline.

[casper]

Originally Posted by ACT7

It also boils down to population catchment when it comes to hubbing. YYZ has about 100 million people within a two and half hour flight of it. Distance to various destinations is a factor for sure but keep in mind Winnipeg is also one of the most centrally and conveniently located transportation hubs on the continent, yet it will never be a true hub for any airline.

Winnipeg has struggled to some extent. At one point in time Air Canada had non-stop from Winnipeg to London Heathrow. That has all shifted. Calgary has become the main for that region of the country.

[SFUVancouver]

I'm going to Chengdu for work in a month and I'm wondering whether frequent flyers to China have any suggestions or words of caution for airlines and flight routing. Thanks in advance.

Also, I was surprised to learn that YVR is one of three hubs for Air China.
http://ca.fltmaps.com/EN/CANADA?

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I'm going to Chengdu for work in a month and I'm wondering whether frequent flyers to China have any suggestions or words of caution for airlines and flight routing. Thanks in advance.

Also, I was surprised to learn that YVR is one of three hubs for Air China.
http://ca.fltmaps.com/EN/CANADA?

China's airlines have come a long way in terms of safety and service. But overall, the biggest problem remains how they handle delays or cancellations. This is more of a problem when flying domestically within China (domestic flights can be an interesting experience...). But for that reason, I'd opt for transiting via ICN, NRT, HKG or even SFO over Beijing, Shanghai Pudong or Guangzhou.

For my money, my preferred routing ex-YVR would probably be CX / KA via HKG. HKG is a great hub to transit through, Cathay has good service and reliability and plenty of flight options to Mainland China, and if there are delays, they do a good job of taking care of you.

If you do take a Chinese airline, China Eastern is generally viewed as having the poorest service of the 'big-3'.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

China's airlines have come a long way in terms of safety and service. But overall, the biggest problem remains how they handle delays or cancellations. This is more of a problem when flying domestically within China (domestic flights are an ... interesting ... experience). But for that reason, I'd opt for transiting via ICN, NRT, HKG or even SFO over Beijing, Shanghai Pudong or Guangzhou.

For my money, my preferred routing ex-YVR would probably be CX / KA via HKG. HKG is a great hub to transit through, Cathay has good service and reliability and plenty of flight options to Mainland China, and if there are delays, they do a good job of taking care of you.

If you do take a Chinese airline, China Eastern is generally viewed as having the poorest service of the 'big-3'.

Thank you for this. My preference is Cathay from YVR to HKG and then Cathay's subsidiary airline Dragon Air from HKG to Chengdu. I like Cathay and prefer to earn frequent flyer points with One World versus Air China (Star Alliance). I'm not sure what the cost differential is (our travel agent is looking into our options) but I'm going to try and convince the team to fly Cathay if it isn't an exorbitant difference in cost. I've flown through HKG several times and feel pretty familiar with its layout and appreciate the prevalence of English on signage and spoken by staff.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

KLM is rolling out their summer 2016 timetable already.

YVR-AMS will be daily 777-200ER. This is replacing the daily A330-300.

Decent bump in seats.... approx 168 per week. More premium seats as well.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/04/06/kl-s16update2/

Great news, lots of love from the KLM/Air France group lately.

Would love to see Air France go daily within the next year or so. Given the European traffic growth, it may not be too far fetched.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by casper

Winnipeg has struggled to some extent. At one point in time Air Canada had non-stop from Winnipeg to London Heathrow. That has all shifted. Calgary has become the main for that region of the country.

Going much further back, Winnipeg used to have flights to Amsterdam and Frankfurt on CP, and Heathrow 747 service on AC. YWG has been stuck in neutral for decades (much like Winnipeg in general). I recall when Greyhound Air tried to make YWG their hub and it failed miserably. It seems like more new routes have failed at YWG than not - AA to ORD, DL to SLC, NW to DTW to name but a few.

Not to mention smaller aircraft being placed on routes that used to see regular A320 service, peppered in with some 767 service.

[casper]

Originally Posted by ACT7

Going much further back, Winnipeg used to have flights to Amsterdam and Frankfurt on CP, and Heathrow 747 service on AC. YWG has been stuck in neutral for decades (much like Winnipeg in general). I recall when Greyhound Air tried to make YWG their hub and it failed miserably. It seems like more new routes have failed at YWG than not - AA to ORD, DL to SLC, NW to DTW to name but a few.

Not to mention smaller aircraft being placed on routes that used to see regular A320 service, peppered in with some 767 service.

Greyhound Air was going to fail one way or another. The ultra low cost option using 727 and competing against two full service airlines was not going to work.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by casper

Greyhound Air was going to fail one way or another. The ultra low cost option using 727 and competing against two full service airlines was not going to work.

Plus the flight attendants wore sweatshirts as uniforms; bizarre.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by casper

Greyhound Air was going to fail one way or another. The ultra low cost option using 727 and competing against two full service airlines was not going to work.

Probably true. But I don't think choosing YWG as a hub even gave them a fighting chance.

[Zassk]

600 positions to fill at Vancouver Airport Outlet Mall job fair this weekend

The first phase opening this spring consists of 240,000 square feet of space for 80 retail shops. A second phase is slated to open in about two years, which will increase the mall footprint to 400,000 square feet and grow the outlet centre to 150 stores.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/04/vancouver-airport-outlet-mall-job-fair/

[trofirhen]

In the YVR MASTERPLAN for 2027, I thought I saw a transborder terminal occupying the land directly adjacent to Templeton station.
If the outlet mall is to be the main occupant of that land, where would the planned Transborder Terminal expansion be?
Or have I got it wrong?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

In the YVR MASTERPLAN for 2027, I thought I saw a transborder terminal occupying the land directly adjacent to Templeton station.
If the outlet mall is to be the main occupant of that land, where would the planned Transborder Terminal expansion be?
Or have I got it wrong?

I know the slide you're thinking of, and you're confusing Templeton with a station does not yet exist. The new station would be placed between the existing terminus station and sea island station and would act as a terminal shuttle to a new terminal connected to the existing Transborder. Definitely no where near templeton, as that's quite disconnected from the airport and existing runways/apron.

Edit: Found the slide.




And here's the Canada line diagram showing "Future YVR 3"

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Thank you for this. My preference is Cathay from YVR to HKG and then Cathay's subsidiary airline Dragon Air from HKG to Chengdu. I like Cathay and prefer to earn frequent flyer points with One World versus Air China (Star Alliance). I'm not sure what the cost differential is (our travel agent is looking into our options) but I'm going to try and convince the team to fly Cathay if it isn't an exorbitant difference in cost. I've flown through HKG several times and feel pretty familiar with its layout and appreciate the prevalence of English on signage and spoken by staff.

Your other option of you want to fly one world is japan air lines through NRT. English isn't an issue in Narita or JAL and that routing is probably your shortest option.

The only complaint I've had on CX through HK is passenger roulette. You could get seated next to a mainlander who decides to change her baby's poop-filled diaper at her seat and draping the diaper over your lap because she's too lazy to get up and use the toilet.

And I'm a parent with two small kids. I know how difficult IT is to travel with kids.

[Johnny Aussie]

Effective 26 October MU will be adding an additional three weekly flights with a late evening departure on the YVR-PVG route.

This boosts the route from 7 to 10 weekly for the winter season 2015/16. This follows on heels of the double daily in the summer season.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/04/13/mu-w15update1/

Sched as follows:

MU581 PVG1330 - 0910YVR 332 D
MU597 KMG1840 – 2140PVG2350 - 1810YVR 332 257

MU598 YVR0030 - 0500+1PVG0800+1 – 1110+1KMG 332 136
MU582 YVR1330 - 1635+1PVG 332 D

Edit: the additional flights are the ones that carry on to KMG (Kunming).

Also a minor adjustment to KE's service on YVR-ICN. 772s will continue to operate 5 weekly until 17 June when the route goes to a daily 744 for the summer. There were supposed to be some 77Ws thrown onto the route from late March until 17 June.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/04/13/ke-yvr-s15update2

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Your other option of you want to fly one world is japan air lines through NRT. English isn't an issue in Narita or JAL and that routing is probably your shortest option.

The only complaint I've had on CX through HK is passenger roulette. You could get seated next to a mainlander who decides to change her baby's poop-filled diaper at her seat and draping the diaper over your lap because she's too lazy to get up and use the toilet.

And I'm a parent with two small kids. I know how difficult IT is to travel with kids.

Thank you. I hadn't thought of a routing through Japan. I'll mention that to our travel agent.

As for passenger roulette on Cathay, I know exactly what you mean! On a HKG-YVR flight I was on the aisle and I got a seat mate in the middle who didn't know the etiquette for asking to be let out. She would spring (that's honestly the best word for it) from a dead standstill in her seat to halfway over my leg in one fluid, split-second movement. The first two times I was good natured about it, and a bit impressed that she was so agile and able to seemingly defy physics at will. I was not impressed when she did this while I was sound asleep and managed to kick me solidly in the side of the knee as she sprung into action. I mean, what was her plan? To literally straddle my legs (I'm tall enough to use up all the room between the seat and tray table) and just climb over me?! I couldn't get back to sleep after that; fortunately Cathay's open bar at the back of the plane and ample selection of movies helped me get through the rest of the flight home.

[LeftCoaster]

Thought it would be interesting to take a swing at what the most likely route to ever see an A380 at YVR would be. Of note it is one of only a few airports in NA who can currently even accommodate a 380, even O'Hare can't AFAIK.

The following are long haul operators at YVR who run or will run the 380, ordered in a rough guess at their likelihood of ever running a 380, as well as a few notes justifying their position.

1. British Airways - Most likely, strong route, limited berths at Heathrow, business route;
2. Lufthansa - Not sure, but seems like a strong route;
3. China Southern - HNW travel between China and YVR strong. Beijing and Shanghai stronger markets;
4. Korean Airways - Not sure, could drop below Qantas;
5. Qantas - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven, some mining/business travel;
6. Air France - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven.

Anyone have any input? I don't think it will happen too soon, but if growth at YVR continues at it's current pace I'd imagine we might see one before the decade is out.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Thought it would be interesting to take a swing at what the most likely route to ever see an A380 at YVR would be. Of note it is one of only a few airports in NA who can currently even accommodate a 380, even O'Hare can't AFAIK.

The following are long haul operators at YVR who run or will run the 380, ordered in a rough guess at their likelihood of ever running a 380, as well as a few notes justifying their position.

1. British Airways - Most likely, strong route, limited berths at Heathrow, business route;
2. Lufthansa - Not sure, but seems like a strong route;
3. China Southern - HNW travel between China and YVR strong. Beijing and Shanghai stronger markets;
4. Korean Airways - Not sure, could drop below Qantas;
5. Qantas - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven, some mining/business travel;
6. Air France - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven.

Anyone have any input? I don't think it will happen too soon, but if growth at YVR continues at it's current pace I'd imagine we might see one before the decade is out.

I think you pretty much covered it. Problem is none of these airlines have a lot of these airframes (BA and AF only have 12 + options, LH has 14 with options for an additional 13, China Southern has 5), which means they're allocated to very specific high density routes. For BA, that's LHR to places like HKG, SIN or LAX.

Of your list, probably BA for the summer season if they exercise their options. Funnily enough, within your timeline, I was thinking we're more likely to see the first A380 from EK -- if they get greater access to Canada within the next few years...

[Johnny Aussie]

Looks like the E75s will be taking over both daily YVR-LAX flights effective 9 Sept. Capacity wash.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/04/15/aa-laxe75-sep15/

Also looks like they have pushed back their third daily PHX flight (The CR9 flight wedged in between the Airbus flights) for the summer until the 18th of August. However, this route is still scheduled for three daily right through the rest of summer, fall and winter.

[Johnny Aussie]

For the summer CA was boosting YVR-PEK to 11 weekly. Now they are bumping the route to 12 weekly from 11th Aug and then to double daily from 17th Aug to 9th Sept.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/04/15/ca-yvr-aug15/

So from mid August to early September Star Alliance will have 3 daily flights on the YVR-PEK route. All flights are operated by 777-300ERs.

So for that brief period... YVR-China goes to 73 flights per week.. 21 each to PEK, PVG and HKG, 7 to CAN and 3 to SHE/CTU.

How big is this really? To put in perspective... that's 42 777-300ERs, 17 A330-200s and 14 787-800s each week...That's a crapload of seats to China!