Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

People from other parts of the world generally find our system (Canada Line and Skytrain) pretty impressively quiet on average.

Where I am living now I have become accustomed to loud trains.

Our exterior noise levels definitely have all other systems built. Kind of makes me glad how we've built out our system with our lightweight trains and concrete guidweays whenever I'm standing under rapid train lines here in Japan, like the Osaka Loop Line, and there is all that noise!

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Do you ride the train regularly? It's still really bad.

Any noise generated by the trains is much worse in the Canada Line tunnel than the elevated Expo line.

Yes, I take it regularly. And, yes, the screeching around corners that was unbearable in early days of the Canada Line's operation is no longer an issue. There is still wheel-on-rail noise, but that's not the same thing as the deafening painful screech that I am talking about.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Like between Nanaimo and 29th Ave? It's part of the intrusion system for the at-grade portions in case a vehicle for example jumped the road and crashed through the fence. I think it was added around the time that the first generation IR curtains were added to the ends of the stations to prevent people wandering down the track/service walkway. I can only assume it's tensioned wire with spring loaded switches in the poles.

Thanks for the note about the carpeting, I forgot about that and the impact it could have on noise.

There are sections track with these poles and wires on elevated sections just past the station platforms, like the north end of the expo line platforms at Commercial-Broadway. I haven't been able to find any pics online. I'll try to, I think we might be talking about different things.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Our exterior noise levels definitely have all other systems built. Kind of makes me glad how we've built out our system with our lightweight trains and concrete guidweays whenever I'm standing under rapid train lines here in Japan, like the Osaka Loop Line, and there is all that noise!

Ever been to Korea?
More particularly Seoul, and stood on the platform when a limited-stop train passed?
The noise is a fierce deafening scream, sort of. The trains themselves are heavy-rail in size,which no doubt accounts for most of it.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Yes, I take it regularly. And, yes, the screeching around corners that was unbearable in early days of the Canada Line's operation is no longer an issue. There is still wheel-on-rail noise, but that's not the same thing as the deafening painful screech that I am talking about.

But still much louder and more uncomfortable than any Skytrain noise, which never really registers for me.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I always presumed that it was the lightweight / lightly insulated frame of the Mk Is that was the main problem. An engineer relative told me when I was a little kid that when he rode the train for the first time he was furious at the wimpy walls and how loud it was in there.

The Mark IIs are better, but still on purpose they have very thin walls, and the style of doors (never allowing a tight seal like on the Rotem trains) let wind through let alone noise.
That being said, I've been on LRT / 'real trains' in other cities and some are quieter but some are louder.

By the way, does anyone know the purpose / function of the following? At the end of some station platforms there are metal bars with what looks like coax cable running along the tops like clothesline. Is this part of the 'leaky coax' RF communication system with the trains, added to enhance the signal at those locations? They didn't use to all be there like that.

I think it is a leaky feeder based communication system. There are also induction sensors to figure out where the train is.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Do you ride the train regularly? It's still really bad.

Any noise generated by the trains is much worse in the Canada Line tunnel than the elevated Expo line.

railways in tunnels are noisier than railways open-air on ballast or on overhead concrete guideways.

Physics 101.
hope you passed the test.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

But still much louder and more uncomfortable than any Skytrain noise, which never really registers for me.

headphones during the commute cures most of the screeching (trains or passengers).

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Ever been to Korea?
More particularly Seoul, and stood on the platform when a limited-stop train passed?
The noise is a fierce deafening scream, sort of. The trains themselves are heavy-rail in size,which no doubt accounts for most of it.

Well, it's probably much the same here in Japan (most lines are designed for express trains of some sort).

[BCPhil]

There is one area the Skytrain beats Canada Line for noise for sure: switches. The Canada line trains are pretty heavy and make a pretty loud noise when going over a switch. LIM trains can hit switches going 80km/h without even noticing. It's probably why there is only one area where there are switches on the NO 3 road branch. If you had them elsewhere there would be too many complaints (but that basically means if there is a problem on the NO 3 road branch there is pretty much no way to run trains on it whereas it is pretty easy to single track around a couple stations on the Expo Line).

And while the LIM trains do make noise, I find it no louder than vehicle traffic. The problem is that it is just noticeable because the sound is so unique. I used to live in an apartment not far from Metrotown, and when the 49 bus would go by, I could hear it and my room would shake a tiny bit (even though I was on the opposite side of the building). We have conditioned ourselves to try to ignore the noise pollution of vehicles because we are around them all our lives, Skytrain just sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

There is one area the Skytrain beats Canada Line for noise for sure: switches. The Canada line trains are pretty heavy and make a pretty loud noise when going over a switch. LIM trains can hit switches going 80km/h without even noticing. It's probably why there is only one area where there are switches on the NO 3 road branch. If you had them elsewhere there would be too many complaints (but that basically means if there is a problem on the NO 3 road branch there is pretty much no way to run trains on it whereas it is pretty easy to single track around a couple stations on the Expo Line).

And while the LIM trains do make noise, I find it no louder than vehicle traffic. The problem is that it is just noticeable because the sound is so unique. I used to live in an apartment not far from Metrotown, and when the 49 bus would go by, I could hear it and my room would shake a tiny bit (even though I was on the opposite side of the building). We have conditioned ourselves to try to ignore the noise pollution of vehicles because we are around them all our lives, Skytrain just sticks out like a sore thumb.

When I lived around Joyce Station, you could hear the Skytrain from any of the buildings two blocks from the Skytrain tracks. That's because the LIM motors have a peculiar "higher pitch" noise than rotary motors. But the track noise itself is quiet.

The Canada Line lacks the LIM noise, but has a lot more track noise. The typical "subway shrieking noise" you hear on things like the TTC. Even then, the noise isn't particularly bad when compared to the TTC or any Light Rail system because the noise is amplified by being in a tunnel. Once it's outside the tunnel it's barely noticed. The TTC also "rocks back and forth", and other subways I've been on do the same, and that's more unnerving than the noise itself. That itself is a side-effect of people driving the train, not computers. The Light rail system in Seattle never gets up to speed, so you don't notice the noise.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Well, it's probably much the same here in Japan (most lines are designed for express trains of some sort).

I've been on both, and the Seoul trains seemed noisier to me.

[DKaz]

When I lived in a high rise in New Westminster at 8th St. between 4th and 5th Ave., I could faintly hear the whirr of the skytrains if they were in direct sight of my balcony.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Thanks for the note about the carpeting, I forgot about that and the impact it could have on noise.

There are sections track with these poles and wires on elevated sections just past the station platforms, like the north end of the expo line platforms at Commercial-Broadway. I haven't been able to find any pics online. I'll try to, I think we might be talking about different things.

Ohhhh, that. It's at Stadium too. I have not a single clue.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Ohhhh, that. It's at Stadium too. I have not a single clue.

They were added some time after 1999, but before 2010. It's also installed at Commercial O/B, Rupert O/B, Brentwood O/B, Sperling O/B, Production Way O/B, Lougheed O/B (although past the station at the end of the side walkway), Braid O/B, 22nd I/B, Royal Oak I/B, Patterson I/B, 29th I/B, Main I/B, Waterfront O/B, and Broadway O/B. Always at the end of the station in the direction of travel (1 end for O/B, 0 end for I/B)

I was bored and curious

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by dpogue

They were added some time after 1999, but before 2010. It's also installed at Commercial O/B, Rupert O/B, Brentwood O/B, Sperling O/B, Production Way O/B, Lougheed O/B (although past the station at the end of the side walkway), Braid O/B, 22nd I/B, Royal Oak I/B, Patterson I/B, 29th I/B, Main I/B, Waterfront O/B, and Broadway O/B. Always at the end of the station in the direction of travel (1 end for O/B, 0 end for I/B)

I was bored and curious

This is the mystery of the month, which I've also wondered about. Someone ask the Buzzer? They're usually pretty good at giving answers about random quirky things people notice.

Also thanks dpogue I now know that I/B is 0 end. I was always confused by that sign travelling Columbia to Sapperton that says "Train direction changes to O"

It uses an O instead of a 0 though, so I was always like "But this is where it switches to IB, not OB!"

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Kisai

When I lived around Joyce Station, you could hear the Skytrain from any of the buildings two blocks from the Skytrain tracks. That's because the LIM motors have a peculiar "higher pitch" noise than rotary motors. But the track noise itself is quiet.

The Canada Line lacks the LIM noise, but has a lot more track noise. The typical "subway shrieking noise" you hear on things like the TTC. Even then, the noise isn't particularly bad when compared to the TTC or any Light Rail system because the noise is amplified by being in a tunnel. Once it's outside the tunnel it's barely noticed. The TTC also "rocks back and forth", and other subways I've been on do the same, and that's more unnerving than the noise itself. That itself is a side-effect of people driving the train, not computers. The Light rail system in Seattle never gets up to speed, so you don't notice the noise.

I lived near 47 and Tyne and could hear the Skytrain, particularly in the early mornings or evenings when the most auto traffic was low. The Train noise wasn't offensive, but definitely could be heard.

Sitting at Starbucks on #3 and Bridgeport, I can hear Canada Line pass over head, but once passed isn't that noticeable on a quiet Richmond evening as it travels away.

Skytrain definitely has an advantage in the curves for sure, but overall on a straight-a-way, I'd say Canada Line is quieter on both inside and out.

[jsbertram]

A friend sent me this link.

Just be thankful Translink hasn't fallen into this NuuYawk mind-set --yet

Warning: For those with sensitive ears or no headphones at their desk, the video contains some NSFW language.

The MTA Is Not Apologizing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2npj4gXHwWk

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by dpogue

They were added some time after 1999, but before 2010. It's also installed at Commercial O/B, Rupert O/B, Brentwood O/B, Sperling O/B, Production Way O/B, Lougheed O/B (although past the station at the end of the side walkway), Braid O/B, 22nd I/B, Royal Oak I/B, Patterson I/B, 29th I/B, Main I/B, Waterfront O/B, and Broadway O/B. Always at the end of the station in the direction of travel (1 end for O/B, 0 end for I/B)

I was bored and curious

Wow, thanks for the research! I still think it's part of the leaky feeder system but hopefully we can find out.

[Xerx]

From the federal budget:

Under the new Public Transit Fund, federal support will be allocated based on merit to projects that will be delivered through alternative financing and funding mechanisms involving the private sector that demonstrate value for money for taxpayers, including P3s.

Any thoughts on what more private sector funding and financing mean in the context of Vancouver?