New Downtown Calgary Arena

[craner]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Suddenly Firepark doesn't sound so bad!

[craner]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

You could only really do a single train, it would be going against the flow once it hit downtown and would have to be turned around and on it's way before the next N.W. train hits the 7th Street station. But very doable late at night or on a weekend afternoon.

I really like your idea, seems very doable too.
And yes, it could be made waterproof.

[B-side]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

You could only really do a single train, it would be going against the flow once it hit downtown and would have to be turned around and on it's way before the next N.W. train hits the 7th Street station. But very doable late at night or on a weekend afternoon.

Is there enough room at the corner of 7th Ave. and 9th St. to add a curve in the tracks that would take SB trains coming from the North to the arena/stadium? The train could then continue it's SB journey after the stop at the arena by reversing itself along the spur and back onto it's normal route along 7th Ave.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

I really like your idea, seems very doable too.
And yes, it could be made waterproof.

I hear KY has stepped up to the plate on this one and will be sponsoring construction of the new train spur in return for a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 full train wrap. It is good they are getting involved early, as clearly it could influence the complex' design.

[Socguy]

This is an interesting project, but we need the details!

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Socguy

This is an interesting project, but we need the details!

[bt04ku]

What is the feasibility of tunneling Bow Trail under this site? Being able to cut-and-cover during construction would be a plus, but I imagine the slope poses some problems at the very least.

[red_179]

Am I the one that finds it hilarious that only a few weeks ago, most everyone is dead set against public money going to this thing and now people are talking about increasing the free fare zone, which would reduce Calgary Transit revenue, and building a new track just for the convenience of those going to the games? We don't even have money for the NC/SE line! Sunalta station as is will do just fine.

[craner]

^ Ok Dad.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by red_179

Am I the one that finds it hilarious that only a few weeks ago, most everyone is dead set against public money going to this thing and now people are talking about increasing the free fare zone, which would reduce Calgary Transit revenue, and building a new track just for the convenience of those going to the games? We don't even have money for the NC/SE line! Sunalta station as is will do just fine.

Depending on how the thing is oriented and what happens to the greyhound, it probably would be just fine to tie directly into Sunalta station with a large +15 (+30?) bridge.

As far as the free fare zone goes, that just seems like the initial over exuberance about this project. If the didn't do it for the stampede why would they do it for this?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Socguy

As far as the free fare zone goes, that just seems like the initial over exuberance about this project. If the didn't do it for the stampede why would they do it for this?

That's a good point. And if there is ever a conference, convention, exhibition at the new complex, the organizers could just arrange to purchase some sort of pass that in effect extends the zone for the participants (so they can get to the core's hotels).

[craner]

My head hurts from listening to relatives (gathered for Easter) state cliche things like:

"Flames are stupid, why are they building the arena & stadium downtown, where is everyone going to park ?"
"They should build it way out in the outskirts where people can get to it"

Very frustrating

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

My head hurts from listening to relatives (gathered for Easter) state cliche things like:

"Flames are stupid, why are they building the arena & stadium downtown, where is everyone going to park ?"
"They should build it way out in the outskirts where people can get to it"

Very frustrating

They probably said the same about you.


Firepark remains the best urban choice - a fantastic compromise that would get all on the table and same page.

The problem with many special interest folks (including a majority on this forum) is that they don't want to consider input from the people.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by craner

X2.

I don't know why Suburbia keeps pushing firepark, there's nothing there and there is no way they are going to build an entertainment district in the middle of an industrial area lol. And Suburbia, don't respond, you are very much on ignore...

Originally Posted by craner

"Flames are stupid, why are they building the arena & stadium downtown, where is everyone going to park ?"

Same place they park right now lol. There would obviously be a parking component to this development, but transit would be given priority I think.

[speedog]

Goodness sakes, some of you have others on ignore and yet you still respond in kind. This all sounds too much like a bunch of 4 year olds at the playground.

On a side note, Firepark may have been ideal a couple of decades ago but things have changed. Personally, I still think rail town is best but the west village will probably get the nod.

[MalcolmTucker]

Remediating the creosote, or at the very least preventing the existing creosote from migrating further will require a public subsidy no matter what.

Claiming residential development would pay for it is just another accounting exercise unless the city puts a levy on top of the normal property taxes for the area. Until there aren't development sites in the Beltline anymore I don't think it is honest to call new residential development induced and not just displaced/moved by Community Revitalization Zone neighbourhood infrastructure improvements.

Not that I don't like the East Village. I think it was totally worth it to spend public money on kickstarting a new neighbourhood with lots of public benefits.

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Remediating the creosote, or at the very least preventing the existing creosote from migrating further will require a public subsidy no matter what.

Clearly the Flames won't be on the hook for remediating the site, but there are corporations out there that ought to be. Here's what the ESRD says about the matter:

Domtar Corporation was the last known owner and operator of this site; however, the corporation no longer exists as a corporate entity in the Province of Alberta. This prevents the Government of Alberta from enforcing the polluter pays principles of the Environment Protection and Enhancement Act. As such, we are working on remediation and monitoring of this site in partnership with the City of Calgary.
Source: http://esrd.alberta.ca/lands-forests/land-industrial/canada-creosote-site-testing.aspx

Public money to remediate the site won't be subsidizing the Flames because it's already subsidizing someone else.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Firepark remains the best urban choice.

Firepark was not, and never has been the best choice for the arena. It has zero amenities and the massive amount of development of that area would be for the sole purpose of serving the arena. Pubs and restaurants in and around Firepark would be dead on all days but for when an event occurs.

The arena going to the West Village and the associated development and increased ammenties is going to spur urban development that is going to benefit that area every day of the year whether there is a event at the arena or not. It will spur a western version of 17th avenue being developed over time on the western side of the city that will help draw people into the area and increase the amount of development in and around Sunalta and will likely help greatly with the economics and development of Westbrook as well as that area will now be one quick LRT ride to the arena.

The required Firepark development/re-development that would be needed if they built the arena there would be wasted for the most part. Yes there "could" be some residential that pops up near there, but with Deerfoot, Barlow, and Memorial all going by there the noise in that area is significant. For pedestrians the area is brutal and would take a massive amount of redevelopment. Crossing Barlow is terrible, crossing Memorial is pointless and the way the land slopes down to the south of Memorial I do not think it would get any redevelopment even "with" an arena there. So you get the arena proper on Firepark land (and it would take the whole of that land at least for an arena. You get what, some restaurants and stuff across Barlow? Are you building the residential in the industrial area to the north of Firepark? That will be lovely.

Seriously, Firepark 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 as an area for the arena.

Firepark IS far and away the best location to build a large modern updated bus terminal to replace the one we are losing. Bus terminals should not be right in the core like our current one is and should instead be in an area like Firepark where the access to and from Deerfoot Trail is fast and does not require driving large busses through the core.

And as far as creosote cleanup? Well no matter what that HAS to get done eventually and doing it in concert with the construction of an arena is doable. There are "very few" developments that could occur that would be willing/able to take on such a massive project prior to construction. The arena construction actually finally cleaning that area is a very good thing and can be part of the payback for the Flames for obtaining the land from the city for free.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Clearly the Flames won't be on the hook for remediating the site

Given they are being given the land for free by the city they can absolutely be required to facilitate and pay for the cleanup as part of the deal. That land is worth a huge amount of money, far more then the cleanup will cost. There is no going back in time and getting the old owners to pay for the cleanup. The tax payers are already putting a large amount of money into this project because the city "bought" this land with taxpayer money and the city is now "giving" it away to the Flames. They can absolutely be required to pay for the cleanup as part of the deal in acquiring the free land from the city/taxpayers.

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

X2.

I don't know why Suburbia keeps pushing firepark, there's nothing there and there is no way they are going to build an entertainment district in the middle of an industrial area lol. And Suburbia, don't respond, you are very much on ignore...


Same place they park right now lol. There would obviously be a parking component to this development, but transit would be given priority I think.

Now you get to live through what went on in Edmonton for 5 years!
Enjoy!