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  #401  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 1:06 AM
canabiz canabiz is offline
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Originally Posted by MattRichling View Post
I am not saying to "go public" or not, but think fully about what the outcome will be before doing anything. You all will have ownership in the building, and for those who are looking to rent out, or sell - the negative press surrounding the builder and building - how will it all affect current or future unit values? The lawyer doesn't see an avenue for monetary compensation, so what will be the outcome of going public?

Yes, jcpheniox (among others) has had nightmare outcomes (that I will use as examples with future clients), but they still have a vested interest in the building once the builder has finished and left. It would almost be unfair to those not in this forum to make a decision like this without including them.
Valid points, Matt, but I have a feeling the horse might have already left the barn, if you will. Owners' frustrations are certainly not contained to this forum, it is all over Twitter as well.

This episode reminds me of Mattamy (a big tract builder with heavy presence in the GTA) first foray in Ottawa market. They screwed up pretty badly in 1 phase of their development in Kanata and it was all over the news, forums, social media etc. and you know what they took it in stride, regrouped, and is now one of the biggest builder in Ottawa delivering solid builds to many happy homeowners.

I don't believe Lamb Dev is in Mattamy's league, in terms of financial and HR resources, but they still have at least 1 other project here (SoBa) to deliver plus possible future ones and the sooner they clean up their act, the better it is for them.
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  #402  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 1:19 AM
Orrd Orrd is offline
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Tired of Lamb

Hi everyone - I've been following silently for a while now, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I agree with CR and Elowyn - if someone from Lamb is actually following this thread then obviously they don't care enough to do anything about it.

I was promised a quality product when I purchased, it is very clear none of us are getting that as it currently stands. We have all invested in our units (whether we plan to live in it or rent it out), and terrible quality means that none of us are getting what we paid for.

If the only way to get Lamb to pay attention to Gotham and improve quality is by drawing public criticism, I'm all for it.
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  #403  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 3:31 AM
Ide Ide is offline
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Originally Posted by Orrd View Post
Hi everyone - I've been following silently for a while now, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I agree with CR and Elowyn - if someone from Lamb is actually following this thread then obviously they don't care enough to do anything about it.

I was promised a quality product when I purchased, it is very clear none of us are getting that as it currently stands. We have all invested in our units (whether we plan to live in it or rent it out), and terrible quality means that none of us are getting what we paid for.

If the only way to get Lamb to pay attention to Gotham and improve quality is by drawing public criticism, I'm all for it.
Orrd: I do not know what is your criteria for quality. People talks a lot about a few builders in town that appears to have a very enviable reputation: beautiful exterior and poor interior finished and fixtures. Quality is not based on slipping occupancy date!

We are all frustrated. When the occupancy date first slipped last year from November/December, I decided to stay put until I get my keys in my hand: if it means that I have to pay 2 month extra rent for doing this, so be it. It is the best decision so far that I have taken in retrospect. I expressed the same to JCPhoenix when she told that she gave her notice to her landlord.

Unfortunately, with the cold weather, there are many things that you are not able to do when it is -30C: it is not possible to do brickwork or to use the construction elevator to move construction supplies up when it is -18C, etc. And, this cannot be planned. And, most of February was -18C or colder. If you ever work on a big project, be it IT project or building a high rise, when the schedule starts to slip, it slips and delays accumulated.

Here we are all feed up with the delays and threatening to go public, to go to lawyers, etc when the faulty party is poor communications and an aggressive occupancy schedule by the builder.

Matt is right: we are all frustrated at this time. I hate to say that there are strong possibilities of be more delays and additional frustrations of booking the elevator and loading dock when moving in.

Once the building is complete, that all items on our Tarion list have been fixed, that we have elected a decent condo board: the building will be a high quality building. Unfortunately, the reputation of a building is not something that is easily repaired and the stigma will stay. I have lived in such a building in the past.

When I went for my upgrades, I was impressed by the choices and the quality of the offerings. Daoust Construction, the management construction company, is decent and is dealing with the shortcomings: they built Ottawa U IT building and it is a nice building. If anything, Lamb Dev Corp is faulty for bad and poor communications.
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  #404  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 3:57 AM
cr872190 cr872190 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
If anything, Lamb Dev Corp is faulty for bad and poor communications.
I think thats exactly the point. By going public about the horrible communication and organization your not so much defacing the building's quality and reputation but the corporation for their poor customer service skills.
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  #405  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 1:35 PM
Orrd Orrd is offline
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Not sure I agree

Thanks everyone for the great posts - this is a nice little community.

Ide, I'd like to clarify something and perhaps give some perspective. I am not considering the construction to be of poor quality on account of the delays. I'm making these statements as a trades person that spent many years commissioning and inspecting condos. Both during construction and upon completion I inspected units in:
Westboro Station
Kent Towers 235/245
St. Denis
The Continental
Claridge Plaza
160 Argyle
464 Catherine + Phase II
There are others, but I'm sure you get the idea. 1000+ condo units

I've worked in buildings done by Ellis Don, PCL, Monarch, Uniform, Charlesfort, Warlyn, Claridge, Minto, Urban, Algonquin College, Carleton University...etc.

I can say with absolute certainty the quality (at this point from and from what I have seen) is poor - definitely not what I expected from Lamb. I've done my own walk through and have had contractors send me pictures during construction. This might be standard from Lamb, I have no past experience with them. If this is typical of Lamb Developments then I feel others should be warned before they invest.

As for the cold weather in February - that's a very bad excuse. A professional company like Daoust has all kinds of construction space heaters (in fact many of their steel frames are sitting on finished floors right now). The interior trades would have been out of the elements and construction would have continued for the most part - us trades people are used to working in poor weather. The exterior will have stalled, but people aren't really complaining about the exterior.

Emotions are all running high (including mine!), but Lamb has done nothing to build confidence or alleviate concerns.
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  #406  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 5:44 PM
jcphoenix jcphoenix is offline
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Ide - FYI, I'm a guy . Realize the wrong impression was probably had when I posted about my boyfriend hah.

To add my input regarding going public - I've definitely thought about it but I have some hesitations due to the reasons that Matt and Ide, etc had pointed out. Namely the reputation of the building itself. I’m not saying we shouldn’t go public but if we did, we’d have to be careful to differentiate between our issues with the company and the building itself. Once we’re all moved in, and the building is fully finished, we don’t want the building's reputation itself to be shattered.

I think this is a case of Lamb setting unrealistic deadlines for everyone involved and then not admitting to that fact. It seems very similar to what happened with The King East, another building they built that was not done on time and had all kinds of last minute delays at occupancy. The work in that case also ended up being rushed and sloppy as a result of what I suspect were unrealistic deadlines.

I have some problems with my suite but my main issues with Lamb almost all stem from communication, both the lack of, as well as the arrogant tone most of it takes (though now it sounds like the quality of work in the units are suffering as well for others). If they had sat down and actually thought this through - even in January, if they had given us just one realistic firm occupancy date set for April, I would have been rightfully annoyed, but not to the extent that I am now. Remember, in January, the first delay (after the initial two month one) was only 10 days and it was implied to us there was only a bit of work left to do. The fact that we’ve been delayed six, seven times since then clearly shows there was a lot of work to do and that that was never a realistic timeframe.

One of the things that bothers me the most is, as Ide put it, the “aggressive occupancy schedule”. It seems to me that Lamb is is trying to cram everything in, get everyone into the building as fast as possible regardless of the finish quality, in order to get a return on their investment and cut their losses here. If you could move everyone in, then okay. But the fact is, there are only a limited number of people who can move in every day and they seem to be trying to shove as many units as possible into each day despite the physical impossibility of moving all those people in, just so they can start receiving occupancy payments from everyone.

I feel really bad for those of us - like Elowyn - who have received the brunt end of this situation it seems as far as their unit is concerned. I suspect the units on the lower floors were finished without as much deadline pressure whereas now they’re rushing things with the other units.

I was mostly fine with the quality of the finishes in my unit, despite the missing pot light in the bathroom (which I will bring up with Tarion), the tub skirt, the bizarre cabinet placement as well as the beige heat pump panel. I also wasn't a big fan of part of the pillar cutting in between our bedroom and our living area wall (that was not the way it was portrayed in the floorplan) but my boyfriend likes it . Regardless though, I was okay with most of the suite but I’m no expert either in construction and finishes so I can’t say I know what I should be looking for quality-wise.

Orrd - do you know of anything in particular that you recall seeing, as far as the subpar quality goes? It kind of goes with something I discussed with another member of this forum in PMs, whether we should be getting our building inspected in some way for deficiencies when we move in.

gothambuyer and Karma22 - I think you should strongly prepare for an occupancy delay, even if some people start moving in on the 1st, due to your units being on the higher floors + no PDI as of yet. If going by Elowyn’s experience, I wouldn’t be surprised if they're ignoring calls because they're clearly not ready.

I would be open to meeting with other owners to see what we can do. I do think that before going public, we should consider trying to resolve this with the builder first - because even if we decide to take this public, there are some facts here that we haven’t clarified and will need to provide as far as compensation goes (for example, in the unlikely event that Lamb for example decides to compensate us all fairly), construction quality for some owners, the inexplicable jump in condo fees from purchase till now because we frankly haven't had the opportunity to discuss them with the builder yet.

Gothamdude - if you click the part under your username on the top right where "Private Messages" is underlined, you'll get to a page where you can see a list of options on the left, including "Send New Message".

Last edited by jcphoenix; Mar 25, 2015 at 9:53 PM.
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  #407  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 5:57 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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What a nightmare you all have been through... Hoping things get better and start shaping up for you all soon...
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  #408  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 10:01 PM
Ide Ide is offline
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Getting a bunch of us on next Tuesday night at Minto.

Thank JC for the time you took to reply to all of us (and to correct my mistake on gender)! Thanks also to Orrr for clarifications. I am one of those who is still waiting for my PDI. Through my lawyer today, I learnt that some of us are considering litigation and that Lamb Dev Corp will not compensate us directly at closing for delays and we will have to apply to Tarion.

Since Louis XIV said, 'Divide to conquer', by staying in our bubbles, we all lose. Brad Lamb has a much larger budget to fight litigation or for public relations or marketing for that matters, and to sue for that matters. As a group, they may be more interested to listen and to resolve some of our frustrations.

If we are able to get let say 20 owners together, it may be possible to get a session going with Tarion to assist us with the process of our claims and with our issues with the builder, since it appears that it is the only way that Lamb Dev Corp will settle.

For one, we should fight the fact that the condo fees published when we bought was published at 42 cents per sq. ft per month and it is now 50 cents per sq. ft. For example, for a 650sq ft unit, condo fees were to be $273 per month or $3276 per year. Now, at 50 cents, the fees are now $325 per month or $3900. When you add the renting of the heat pump -yes, you do not own it and it is not included in the purchase price, I guess at $50 per month per unit, no matters how big or small is your unit (not sure if it per heat pump as some larger suites have multiple ones) you will pay an extra $600 per year! If you budgeted for condo fees at $3276 per year, your cost is now $4500 when you include the heat pump rental. One has to question if we are paying the builder to carry the empty units that he has still to sell!

Let's discuss it as a group. No obligations here and nothing to lose!
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  #409  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 10:29 PM
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Ralphedelominius Ralphedelominius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattRichling View Post
I am not saying to "go public" or not, but think fully about what the outcome will be before doing anything. You all will have ownership in the building, and for those who are looking to rent out, or sell - the negative press surrounding the builder and building - how will it all affect current or future unit values? The lawyer doesn't see an avenue for monetary compensation, so what will be the outcome of going public?

Yes, jcpheniox (among others) has had nightmare outcomes (that I will use as examples with future clients), but they still have a vested interest in the building once the builder has finished and left. It would almost be unfair to those not in this forum to make a decision like this without including them.
OK, but if no one says anything, he gets away with this debacle with no repercussions at all. That is unacceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ide View Post
Since construction is ongoing (their schedule is 7am to 3pm), the freight elevator will be only available between 3pm and 8pm officially.
If there is enough on-going construction that they have to monopolize the elevators for 8 hours, how is the building even remotely ready for anyone to move in, let alone 240 of us on the same day :/

Last edited by Ralphedelominius; Mar 25, 2015 at 10:53 PM.
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  #410  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 10:33 PM
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Ralphedelominius Ralphedelominius is offline
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Originally Posted by jcphoenix View Post
Ide - FYI, I'm a guy . Realize the wrong impression was probably had when I posted about my boyfriend hah.
Hi everyone, I'm the aforementioned angry boyfriend!

Last edited by Ralphedelominius; Mar 25, 2015 at 10:58 PM.
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  #411  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 12:05 AM
Elowyn Elowyn is offline
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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
Orrd: I do not know what is your criteria for quality. People talks a lot about a few builders in town that appears to have a very enviable reputation: beautiful exterior and poor interior finished and fixtures. Quality is not based on slipping occupancy date!
For those of you debating the quality of construction...
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_VoD6...A/p0fMvuHmOx4/w1338-h889-no/DSC01530.ARW

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YXzX4...A/rHA638fjCuc/w1338-h889-no/DSC01533.ARW

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gr-HE...A/0f3D9yK12l0/w1338-h889-no/DSC01487.ARW

I would definitely be up for meeting with anyone else that would be interested.
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  #412  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 12:23 AM
cabello cabello is offline
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Originally Posted by Elowyn View Post
Were these photos taken at your Gotham PDI?
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  #413  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 12:29 AM
cr872190 cr872190 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elowyn View Post
What in the hell is that giant plug thing sticking out of the wall in the first photo?
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  #414  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 1:06 AM
Elowyn Elowyn is offline
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Originally Posted by cr872190 View Post
What in the hell is that giant plug thing sticking out of the wall in the first photo?
That's supposed to be the plug for the washer/dryer!

The second picture shows two plugs that are actually beside one of the closets. With the closet door closed, the door hits the plug...
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  #415  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 1:06 AM
Elowyn Elowyn is offline
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Originally Posted by cabello View Post
Were these photos taken at your Gotham PDI?
Yes!
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  #416  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 1:14 AM
cr872190 cr872190 is offline
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That's supposed to be the plug for the washer/dryer!

The second picture shows two plugs that are actually beside one of the closets. With the closet door closed, the door hits the plug...
Good god. Those are not quick fixes either. An electrician will have to rip part of the drywall out.
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  #417  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 1:24 AM
voltz8 voltz8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elowyn View Post
what the actual 🞵🞵🞵🞵.
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  #418  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 1:43 AM
NOWINYOW NOWINYOW is offline
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Originally Posted by Orrd View Post
Hi everyone - I've been following silently for a while now, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I agree with CR and Elowyn - if someone from Lamb is actually following this thread then obviously they don't care enough to do anything about it.

I was promised a quality product when I purchased, it is very clear none of us are getting that as it currently stands. We have all invested in our units (whether we plan to live in it or rent it out), and terrible quality means that none of us are getting what we paid for.

If the only way to get Lamb to pay attention to Gotham and improve quality is by drawing public criticism, I'm all for it.
Just my 2 cents, but...
Has anyone considered small claims court? I believe the maximum is $25,000.00 You don't need (really, you don't want) a lawyer.

Don't pursue it as class-action, each buyer sue separately. I'll bet they'll sit down and talk pretty quick if a dozen or so lawsuits show up on the same day.

If people show up with those photos and the builder shows up with lawyers, I'd bet donuts to dollars the judge (sometimes a JP) won't be too pleased with the builder.

A link to the Ontario Gov't site
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/scc/scc_increase_limit.asp

Last edited by NOWINYOW; Mar 26, 2015 at 1:55 AM.
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  #419  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 3:05 AM
Karma22 Karma22 is offline
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Hi everyone,
I am interested in meeting if anyone decides to and pick a location and time.
For me I have a lot at steak in this unit and unfortunately my circumstance has changed with the delays taking so long that I am going to have to list my unit as soon as I am able. I too worry about going public with this as I'm afraid it may hurt our resale value. I'm sure eventually people would get over it but that doesn't help me in the interm and I can not let this nightmare dig into my personal or financial life anymore then it already has over the last year. But I do agree something should be done with lamb directly. at this point I am just not sure what the options are...He seems to have a pretty tight contract.
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  #420  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 3:49 AM
Ide Ide is offline
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Originally Posted by Elowyn View Post
Many people screw up on these ones, starting with the city inspector! Do you have more photos? I am not able to figure out the last photo: it is next to the window...where? It is not even finished...and I agree with you, no one seems to have paid attention to anything. I wonder if others in this forum who got their PDI have also pictures to share. What was Marissa's and the finishing foreman responses to your photos and remarks? I am surprised that these passed city inspection: he must have been asleep at the wheel.
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