Gotham | 53m | 17 fl | Completed

[Skipper]

Drove by yesterday and the building looks great and I hope it looks as great inside as the outside. Considering what new owners have been going through, I'm glad to see that Lamb will not build condos on Bronson! Just a few words for you Mr. Lamb: Go back to Toronto and stay there forever!!!!

I sure hope that the owners can get better than Tarion. This is pure incompetence from a big builder. It must be very difficult to go about your lives when you have this major issue.

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by Skipper

Drove by yesterday and the building looks great and I hope it looks as great inside as the outside. Considering what new owners have been going through, I'm glad to see that Lamb will not build condos on Bronson! Just a few words for you Mr. Lamb: Go back to Toronto and stay there forever!!!!

I sure hope that the owners can get better than Tarion. This is pure incompetence from a big builder. It must be very difficult to go about your lives when you have this major issue.

Not that theres any excuse for the way Lamb has treated buyers, but this is his first build in Ottawa and my guess is there's a lot to figure out building in a new city. I think Soba will be the real test to see if he has learned from this colossal f*ck up.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Not that theres any excuse for the way Lamb has treated buyers, but this is his first build in Ottawa and my guess is there's a lot to figure out building in a new city. I think Soba will be the real test to see if he has learned from this colossal f*ck up.

I don't think it's fair to treat him as a newbie to the Ottawa development scene either. Lamb wasn't the developer (IIRC), but was also an equity partner with Urban Capital and Doran/Taggart for East Market, Mondrian, and Central Phase 1... I am curious to see if Lamb/Fortress will change construction companies and/or subtrades for SoBa...

[voltz8]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I don't think it's fair to treat him as a newbie to the Ottawa development scene either. Lamb wasn't the developer (IIRC), but was also an equity partner with Urban Capital and Doran/Taggart for East Market, Mondrian, and Central Phase 1... I am curious to see if Lamb/Fortress will change construction companies and/or subtrades for SoBa...

I bought into this development because of his experience with the condos you mentioned above. I have no facts, but from this — storm, looks like he was 'carried' by his partners.

[Karma22]

Hi all,
Too bad about the latest delays. My lastest date I was given for my unit on the 17th floor is April. 10th. I'm assuming with your most recent delays that I will receive an email any day now (or maybe not till 2 days before...) notifying me of yet another delay and new occupancy date.
However, I am glad that they have taken out the paragraph at the bottom of all their correspondence that read something like... We still have units available for sale and are offering... Yeah, as if I am going to recommend anyone to buy there and come join us in this waiting club. Bit ridicules.
I also have not been sent a date yet for the pdi inspection. They seem to not understand that people have lives and jobs and need advanced notice for appointments like this. Even if it is a time that they schedule last minute, should I not be available I'm sure that they will not be very accommodating.
A friend of mine on a lower floor had his pdi last week and advised me that the work to the inside was sloppy. Scrathes on the doors,paint from the wall on trim and vice versa, paint on the counter where they had missed the trim, tile grouting issues etc.
I would like to know if you guys have scheduled PDI'S yet or if you are still waiting for dates?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Karma22

Hi all,
Too bad about the latest delays. My lastest date I was given for my unit on the 17th floor is April. 10th. I'm assuming with your most recent delays that I will receive an email any day now (or maybe not till 2 days before...) notifying me of yet another delay and new occupancy date.
However, I am glad that they have taken out the paragraph at the bottom of all their correspondence that read something like... We still have units available for sale and are offering... Yeah, as if I am going to recommend anyone to buy there and come join us in this waiting club. Bit ridicules.
I also have not been sent a date yet for the pdi inspection. They seem to not understand that people have lives and jobs and need advanced notice for appointments like this. Even if it is a time that they schedule last minute, should I not be available I'm sure that they will not be very accommodating.
A friend of mine on a lower floor had his pdi last week and advised me that the work to the inside was sloppy. Scrathes on the doors,paint from the wall on trim and vice versa, paint on the counter where they had missed the trim, tile grouting issues etc.
I would like to know if you guys have scheduled PDI'S yet or if you are still waiting for dates?

The inspection needs to be at your convenience, not just that of the builder. If you don't like the date they provide, tell them you'll be out of town that day and suggest an alternative date.

[canabiz]

Make sure you record all defects and issues, no matter how small, and report them to Tarion. I have no idea about Lamb Development's after-sales support but these guys need to be held accountable.

This is supposed to be a big milestone and a joyous occasion for many folks (first time they have their own place etc).

[gothambuyer]

Originally Posted by Karma22

Hi all,
Too bad about the latest delays. My lastest date I was given for my unit on the 17th floor is April. 10th. I'm assuming with your most recent delays that I will receive an email any day now (or maybe not till 2 days before...) notifying me of yet another delay and new occupancy date.
However, I am glad that they have taken out the paragraph at the bottom of all their correspondence that read something like... We still have units available for sale and are offering... Yeah, as if I am going to recommend anyone to buy there and come join us in this waiting club. Bit ridicules.
I also have not been sent a date yet for the pdi inspection. They seem to not understand that people have lives and jobs and need advanced notice for appointments like this. Even if it is a time that they schedule last minute, should I not be available I'm sure that they will not be very accommodating.
A friend of mine on a lower floor had his pdi last week and advised me that the work to the inside was sloppy. Scrathes on the doors,paint from the wall on trim and vice versa, paint on the counter where they had missed the trim, tile grouting issues etc.
I would like to know if you guys have scheduled PDI'S yet or if you are still waiting for dates?

I have been following this forum for a little while and am also in a similar frustrating situation. I am supposed to be moving into a unit on the 9th floor on "April 1", like (what seems to be) floors 2-16!.. I'm not sure how long it will take to actually schedule our moves considering the moving elevator is limited to 3 - 8 pm on week days and 15 floors have the same occupancy date. Does anyone know if there is any kind of recourse we can seek if it ends up taking weeks before some of us can actually move in? It's crazy to think we'd have to start paying rent to the builder as of "April 1" and likely still pay for alternate accommodations to stay in while we wait for a free slot to move in.

I also have not had a PDI, despite numerous attempts to schedule one...I've either had no response to my emails or last minute (1 or 2 days before) scheduled PDI's that were subsequently canceled. .. Once without them even notifying me!

I guess all we can hope for is that the final product will be worth it!!!

[redback]

I had my PDI last Friday. They had sent a note asking for a time on Thursday. I told them I wasn't available on Thursday, and Marisa was very accommodating.

[Elowyn]

Hi everyone.

I've been following this forum for a while, and thought I'd share our recent experience. We had a PDI scheduled last week (had been rescheduled countless times before). Showed up and our unit was a disaster. I mean absolutely horrible. There were random wires hanging from the ceiling, our hardwood floors were gouged and scratched everywhere, damage to our closet upgrades, damaged counter tops, paint splatters, holes in the wall, etc. etc. We took pictures and refused to complete the PDI - told Marisa that the unit wasn't anywhere near ready for an inspection and she even agreed. We followed up with an email with our expectations that the issues would be addressed by immediately (though we are not hopeful at this point.)

Anyways, we contacted our lawyer who advised that litigation against the builder would be excessively costly and chance of being awarded any sort of compensation would be slim at best. She said that the most effective way to deal with the builder is to go as public as possible, and with as many buyers as possible.

So I'm wondering if any of you who have had similar experiences would be interested in contacting the various city newspapers together as a group, and perhaps discussing other ways we can make these issues known publicly? Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[teej1984]

Why not try CBC Go Public! http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/gopublic/

[Elowyn]

Originally Posted by teej1984

Why not try CBC Go Public! http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/gopublic/

I didn't know about this! Thank you!

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by Elowyn

I didn't know about this! Thank you!

You could be waiting months for the CBC to respond as that's a national program. You would be better served going with a local news source like the Ottawa Citizen.

[canabiz]

I agree with cr, look up Hugh Adami, he's the Public Citizen columnist for the Citizen. He will be all over this like white on rice.

Best of luck and keep us posted! It's time for the little guys to stand up for ourselves, nobody else would.

[daud]

Originally Posted by canabiz

I agree with cr, look up Hugh Adami, he's the Public Citizen columnist for the Citizen. He will be all over this like white on rice.

Best of luck and keep us posted! It's time for the little guys to stand up for ourselves, nobody else would.

Just looking at the exterior of this building, I can't believe they are moving people in. Everytime someone posts a photo, I'm saying to myself "Are they seriously moving people into that now?" Its clearly not even close to ready. I've bought a new condo in 2005-Tridel (Toronto) and I will tell you, when we went in, everything was pretty much done and well done at that-the building was mostly ready except for some landscapting, the exterior certainly was completed. There was a bit of caulking here and there in the unit, maybe a faucet not finished, the odd tile not placed but nothing like what people are experiencing with Gotham. Good luck to all the buyers. The one saving grace is that maybe, with time, he'll fix everything up. I also feel sorry for the staff as they are forced to deal with the customers who are rightfully upset.

My guess is there is some financing issue with subcontractors that has delayed everything.

[kwoldtimer]

Some might argue that it is not in the buyers' best interest to go public with a condo's perceived shortcomings. Once a building gets a "bad reputation", it is not easily shaken. The potential effect on one's investment should also be kept in mind. If it were me, I would swallow hard and exhaust all avenues to work with the developer to correct problems (whether on my own or jointly with like-minded purchasers) before looking to take matters public.

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Some might argue that it is not in the buyers' best interest to go public with a condo's perceived shortcomings. Once a building gets a "bad reputation", it is not easily shaken. The potential effect on one's investment should also be kept in mind. If it were me, I would swallow hard and exhaust all avenues to work with the developer to correct problems (whether on my own or jointly with like-minded purchasers) before looking to take matters public.

Its a very good point. But if Lamb wants to save face in this city (or anywhere for that matter) he will fix everything and make a big public spectacle of fixing absolutely EVERYTHING. He talks a big game when it comes to 'luxury quality' and if he is not living up to that standard it will have an impact on his company no matter what he does going forward.

[MattRichling]

I am not saying to "go public" or not, but think fully about what the outcome will be before doing anything. You all will have ownership in the building, and for those who are looking to rent out, or sell - the negative press surrounding the builder and building - how will it all affect current or future unit values? The lawyer doesn't see an avenue for monetary compensation, so what will be the outcome of going public?

Yes, jcpheniox (among others) has had nightmare outcomes (that I will use as examples with future clients), but they still have a vested interest in the building once the builder has finished and left. It would almost be unfair to those not in this forum to make a decision like this without including them.

[Ide]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Some might argue that it is not in the buyers' best interest to go public with a condo's perceived shortcomings. Once a building gets a "bad reputation", it is not easily shaken. The potential effect on one's investment should also be kept in mind. If it were me, I would swallow hard and exhaust all avenues to work with the developer to correct problems (whether on my own or jointly with like-minded purchasers) before looking to take matters public.

I fully agree with you - going public, or to lawyers for that matter, is not the solution: as a group of owners we have more leverage. May I propose a meeting somewhere downtown close to Gotham? A pot luck? How about meeting at Minto Place in the eating area for 5:30pm on next Tuesday, March 30th in the area by the green wall, close to the 360 Steak House.

I have a unit on the upper floor and my occupancy is scheduled for April 2nd and I am expecting an email next Friday to announce a new delay: it is getting a joke at my office and with my lawyer. The best way to work this out is with the builder, Lamb Dev Corp. I am still waiting for my PDI and I am trying to get one ASAP as I spent a lot of money on upgrades and I like to get a sense of the space - wires dangling from the ceiling or not. As it goes with Tarion, everything is fixed as reported in the 30-day list: plenty of time to pick things up. Following a CBC documentary on condos in Toronto, this is not a unique situation.

As floors 2 to 16 are scheduled to move on April 1st and 2nd, there are about 240 units on these floors. Since construction is ongoing (their schedule is 7am to 3pm), the freight elevator will be only available between 3pm and 8pm officially. In the best of case, 3 units per day may move in, so 240 divided by 3 is 80 elevator days or just short of 3 months. And, this doesn't take in account any deliveries that one might schedules for new furniture, etc or week-ends.

As an owner resident, I surely hope that owner residents will have priority over tenants (sorry here, this is not a choice for me, I bought the place to live in, not to make money like would be investors - I cannot rip the purchase offer and walk away. If this gets enough investors upset, may be Lamb Dev Corp will do something!!!) if I may have to wait a month or 6 weeks to book the elevator to move in while I am forced to pay for 2 places to live in.

Personally, I proposed that we force the developer and the management company to open the booking for the freight elevator and loading dock from 3pm to 7am (yes, around the clock - as we have pay for tenancy from the time that we get our keys, not when we move in). I do not mind moving in at midnight or 4am if it gets me in my new condo 3 or 4 weeks earlier.

BTW, I am aware that the construction management staff and Lamb Dev Corp staff are following this blog.

May I suggest that we start to help each others and propose solutions to move ahead like forcing Lamb Dev Corp to credit us directly the delay penality at closing as opposed to claiming it through Tarion with filling forms and wait for months to get our money? Also, as one mentioned above, when I made my offer, the condo fee was projected to be 42 cents per sq. ft. At occupancy, one said that it is 50 cents per sq. ft. In other words, an increase of 19% over 3 yrs for an unaudited building...this is unheard of! Let the builder sticks to its 42 cents per sq. ft.

[Elowyn]

Thank everyone for your input. You have all made excellent points to consider.

Our thoughts are that terrible construction will have a large effect on investors and live-in owners alike.

If Lamb Development is actually following this forum, they obviously have a good sense of buyers opinions and concerns - yet nothing has been done to resolve these issues.