Car2GO to launch in Calgary

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Very happy this is taking place. Enough of subsidizing parking for special interest groups on the backs of the public at large, particularly the transit-going masses who so much more could use subsidies than the large corporations running these schemes.

Yikes. This has nothing to do with "special interest groups", unless you want to label the drivers of big trucks who can't find a parking space downtown a special interest group. They complain that the 3 Car2Gos that have taken up the space for his one truck are ruining downtown.

Get enough of these complaints, as well as business owners who have no understanding of economics (who complain about Car2Gos parked in front of their shops as wasting valuable parking spots), and you have a magical change in heart at city hall.

This is a ridiculous proposed change and is catering to only those few who are loud enough to annoy the city. It is supported by people like you, who have no idea what they are talking about (as usual).

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Yikes. Car2Go doesn't get parking handed to them for free, they have an agreement with the city and pay their share. This has nothing to do with "special interest groups", unless you want to label the drivers of big trucks who can't find a parking space downtown a special interest group. They complain that the 3 Car2Gos that have taken up the space for his one truck are ruining downtown.

Get enough of these complaints, as well as business owners who have no understanding of economics (who complain about Car2Gos parked in front of their shops as wasting valuable parking spots), and you have a magical change in heart at city hall.

This is a ridiculous proposed change and is catering to only those few who are loud enough to annoy the city. It is supported by people like you, who have no idea what they are talking about (as usual).

This. Also The head of the downtown association doesn't help this as she seems to perceive a lack of parking keeping people out of downtown. I would encourage her to visit a place with lots of parking and let the public know if that's what she's after.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

This. Also The head of the downtown association doesn't help this as she seems to perceive a lack of parking keeping people out of downtown. I would encourage her to visit a place with lots of parking and let the public know if that's what she's after.

Exactly. It's all about balance, really.

What we need is people at city hall who actually know what is best for the city and can stand up to the irritating whiners who call in with wasteful complaints, instead of putting in a proposal to limit a revolutionary mobility choice that has seen enormous success.

"Things are going well and people are always raving about Car2Go and how it has improved their lives... but Rod the Redneck called in and had to park his F350 a block away from his destination. Let's reduce the effectiveness of this dangerous car share program immediately."

[hulkrogan]

I'd like to know how it actually works before making any conclusions on what I think of it.

As an occasional user, it's a super handy service.

I do know for a fact that there is a large volume of these downtown that don't move all day, or might briefly move out and back at lunch.

At 40 cents a minute, even if your average morning and afternoon trip for all cars is 30 minutes, you're getting $24 in fees, minus fuel, minus maintenance, minus depreciation.

If they are in fact paying every parking ticket they receive (which is what I've heard) that's at least $30/day in parking tickets for parking in 2 hour zones, or $38 if they are just paying meter time for 8 hours.

Something must be going on unless Car2Go is straight up bleeding cash.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Sorry how is a company paying the same rate as anyone else being subsidized? How about we start charging everyone (including Car2Go) for the pleasure of using our roadways for driving and parking?

My understanding is that Car2Go, IE the for-profit-business, pays the city peanuts compared to the actual cost of the massive number of parking-hours their cars occupy in the core. Additionally, there has been a real backlash from the small businesses impacted, as that little car that doesn't pay for parking sometimes ends up taking the one spot closest to that small business for the 8 prime hours of the business day, so true customers can't stop. Corporation, IE Car2Go, in effect subsidized by municipal public coffers, and in return, takes business from the small guy.

The general idea is good, but perhaps Car2Go should only receive a 50% discount for parking, and not the 95%+ discount they currently get. If that means rates go up, so be it. I'm 100% for people covering the costs of what they do, instead of leaning (indirectly) on the tax payer.

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Exactly. It's all about balance, really.

Fully agree with you CalgaryAlex. Keeping the Car2Go vehicles in specific designated areas, and at the same time, giving them a more appropriate / modest parking subsidy, can indeed fix the major problem afflicting the core.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I'd like to know how it actually works before making any conclusions on what I think of it.

As an occasional user, it's a super handy service.

I do know for a fact that there is a large volume of these downtown that don't move all day, or might briefly move out and back at lunch.

At 40 cents a minute, even if your average morning and afternoon trip for all cars is 30 minutes, you're getting $24 in fees, minus fuel, minus maintenance, minus depreciation.

If they are in fact paying every parking ticket they receive (which is what I've heard) that's at least $30/day in parking tickets for parking in 2 hour zones, or $38 if they are just paying meter time for 8 hours.

Something must be going on unless Car2Go is straight up bleeding cash.

The bolded part is where I believe relative diverges from perception, from what I understand the cars do move around pretty constantly throughout the day. While there may be a car there all day the likelihood that it's the same one is quite low.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by suburbia

My understanding is that Car2Go, IE the for-profit-business, pays the city peanuts compared to the actual cost of the massive number of parking-hours their cars occupy in the core. Additionally, there has been a real backlash from the small businesses impacted, as that little car that doesn't pay for parking sometimes ends up taking the one spot closest to that small business for the 8 prime hours of the business day, so true customers can't stop. Corporation, IE Car2Go, in effect subsidized by municipal public coffers, and in return, takes business from the small guy.

The general idea is good, but perhaps Car2Go should only receive a 50% discount for parking, and not the 95%+ discount they currently get. If that means rates go up, so be it. I'm 100% for people covering the costs of what they do, instead of leaning (indirectly) on the tax payer.

They only get the small car discount (25%) which is available to all citizens, really not sure where you come up with the 95%+ discount. Car2Go pays the city based on GPS data of the cars, while there may be cars that get parking tickets I would bet there is little statistical difference in ticket rates between the Car2Go's and the general parking population.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

They only get the small car discount (25%) which is available to all citizens, really not sure where you come up with the 95%+ discount. Car2Go pays the city based on GPS data of the cars, while there may be cars that get parking tickets I would bet there is little statistical difference in ticket rates between the Car2Go's and the general parking population.

If true, it is not as bad as I thought. It would be interesting to know the internal details on this one.

I still feel for the businesses that lose customers as a result of the blue army. People using those things really should consider transit.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Exactly. It's all about balance, really.

What we need is people at city hall who actually know what is best for the city and can stand up to the irritating whiners who call in with wasteful complaints, instead of putting in a proposal to limit a revolutionary mobility choice that has seen enormous success.

"Things are going well and people are always raving about Car2Go and how it has improved their lives... but Rod the Redneck called in and had to park his F350 a block away from his destination. Let's reduce the effectiveness of this dangerous car share program immediately."

It's almost like no one on council has ever been downtown before.

Car2Gos are parking everywhere! Chaos!
- Kind of like normal cars but smaller and used by more people in a vastly more efficient way. Relax.

Bikes can't go on Stephen Avenue! Chaos!
- One step out of City Hall at lunch would tell them this already happens, regardless on if they are allowed or not. Not to mention cars and people mix there safely every night. Relax.

Condos can't have zero parking! Chaos!
- Some people already do live without cars everywhere in the world, including here particularly in the inner city, despite years of auto-centric policy trying eliminate them. Relax.

God forbid having an downtown where I can't park my truck on the same block all the time.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by suburbia

If true, it is not as bad as I thought. It would be interesting to know the internal details on this one.

I still feel for the businesses that lose customers as a result of the blue army. People using those things really should consider transit.

Unless the medias in on the scam

Originally Posted by Calgary Herald

While Car2Go users do not pay directly for meter parking, Calgary Parking Authority does charge the company, Domenic Barbario said in an email Friday.

“Once verified, Car2Go is invoiced for all parking fees incurred in each zone, at the same rates as a private vehicle,” he said.

“Car2Go vehicles are also subject to tickets and tows for the same parking restrictions as private vehicles, including: overtime parking, no stopping/no parking during rush hour, and all safety related infractions (blocked fire hydrants, blocked driveways etc.)”

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...ts-parked-cars-new-city-car-share-policy

See also

Originally Posted by Metro News

How does car2go parking work in Calgary?

• The Calgary Parking Authority (CPA) charges car2go for parking in both ParkPlus zones and in residential-permit zones. These costs are included the fees the company charges its customers.

• ParkPlus fares are based on the GPS location and duration of stay that are recorded from each car2go’s on-board telemetry. The CPA cross-references this info with its own observations from photo-enforcement vehicles and invoices car2go at the same rates as private vehicles.

• Because of their size, car2go vehicles are eligible for the CPA’s 25-per-cent discount for on-street parking of small vehicles. The same discount is available to any ParkPlus cellphone account holder with a vehicle less than 3.8 metres in length.

• The CPA also allows car2go vehicles to park in any residential-parking-permit zone. For this, car2go pays $600 per vehicle for each of its 550 vehicles in Calgary, for a total of $330,000 per year.

• As part of the proposed new policy, the city is considering reducing that fee to $450 per car2go vehicle, while also limiting car2go vehicles’ occupancy of some residential zones to a maximum of 20 per cent of available space, averaged over a month.

• The residential restrictions would only apply in zones where complaints about car2go clustering are “repeatedly received” and total occupancy exceeds 60 per cent, according to the proposed policy.

• Just like private vehicles, car2go vehicles are subject to being ticketed and towed for the same parking violations, including: overtime parking, rush-hour exclusions, blocking fire hydrants, blocking driveways, and so on.

• The CPA issues tickets for violations to car2go and the company passes on the price of the fine to the customer it deems responsible, plus a $25 “processing fee.”

• If a car2go is towed, the responsible customer is also charged $150 plus the actual towing charges.

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1314115...er-confuse-parking-rules-car2go-worries/

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

The bolded part is where I believe relative diverges from perception, from what I understand the cars do move around pretty constantly throughout the day. While there may be a car there all day the likelihood that it's the same one is quite low.

Not where I'm looking. And I've paid attention quite a bit. Between 8-1130 and 130-3pm there is very, very little movement around my building. Maybe we're the exception, I'd be curious to see what their data is.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by suburbia

If true, it is not as bad as I thought. It would be interesting to know the internal details on this one.

I still feel for the businesses that lose customers as a result of the blue army. People using those things really should consider transit.

My wife uses them to go to appointments at Foothills. Have you ever tried to take transit from downtown to foothills and back in a reasonable amount of time? Sometimes transit works better for things. Sometimes Car2Go is a great option. Other times driving a private vehicle is the best choice. Saying people should just use transit misses the point.

[googspecial]

My thinking is we'll end up with a "hole" in the core, in the most concentrated area of strictly offices/businesses. Yet there will remain some designated parking areas for the vehicles. Similar to how it is here in Montréal:


I could see the area within the red square probably having sparse parking locations... I imagine the entire "Free-Fare Zone" of the C-Train will probably no longer be in the Home Area. However it'll likely be broken up differently and in larger areas. I can't see Eau Claire, West End and especially not East Village being un-included in the Home Area.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Saying people should just use transit misses the point.

Agree. Every good city provides multiple options for mobility. Walking, biking, transit, car share and private vehicles all serve their purpose at some point.

Also, Car2Go vehicles, purely due to their dimensions, allow far more parking downtown than even a small sedan (as long as users are parking them properly). This is a good thing, as is the increased mobility between the options of walk/bike and taking transit.

As far as I know, the city was impressed with Car2Go in the beginning, now they are listening to loud people only interested in themselves. It's pretty disheartening.

The city's reluctance to allow Uber goes right along with this Car2Go revision. Disappointing, behind-the-times and catering to a small part of the population (in this case, the taxi monopoly) instead of the masses.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

My wife uses them to go to appointments at Foothills. Have you ever tried to take transit from downtown to foothills and back in a reasonable amount of time? Sometimes transit works better for things. Sometimes Car2Go is a great option. Other times driving a private vehicle is the best choice. Saying people should just use transit misses the point.

I hear ya' - but it is a little bit of double speak from some forum contributors who are all against car infrastructure, but are up in arms when the city says perhaps these hundreds of cars shouldn't be allowed to lounge at will all around the downtown core.

BTW - LRT to Lion's park and the uber efficient 91 from there works very well. Agreed it is not as efficient as just driving around with a car, but your sacrifice will save the planet from global warming and save Calgary from being taken over by the car.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by suburbia

BTW - LRT to Lion's park and the uber efficient 91 from there works very well. Agreed it is not as efficient as just driving around with a car, but your sacrifice will save the planet from global warming and save Calgary from being taken over by the car.

That's very noble of you to lead the vanguard in the war against cars.

It does seem a little hypocritical but I think most of the forumers here are against banning smart cars parking in spaces that would be otherwise used to park Canyoneros. At least that's what I think the gist of it is.

[DizzyEdge]

What we need is the average time a car2go remains parked on the street downtown vs the average time private vehicles remain parked on the street.
Then maybe selectively restrict car2go from blocks where they sit all day, but private vehicles tend not to.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

What we need is the average time a car2go remains parked on the street downtown vs the average time private vehicles remain parked on the street.
Then maybe selectively restrict car2go from blocks where they sit all day, but private vehicles tend not to.

Yeah - absolutely.

I did note that while Car2Go would have all of that information, they did not volunteer it.

Also, I noticed that Car2Go suggested costs would increase, and that would mean more costs for users. If currently they already pay for parking, why would their costs increase if they have specific zones identified for parking?

[McMurph]

The problem in my mind is the extensive use Cars2Go for commuting downtown. There is a huge shift from the periphery to the centre and back each day which creates a diurnal maldistribution that undercuts the convenience of true car sharing and creates in the very least a perception of them undermining transit and downtown parking strategies. Car2Go is a great service and is useful for both its users and the city as a whole, but as a partner in Calgary's transportation system they're going to have to do a better job of evenly distributing their cars. I don't know how it should work -- it'll be tough with our hugely centralized work world -- but I hope they figure it out themselves before something stupid gets regulated for them.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by McMurph

The problem in my mind is the extensive use Cars2Go for commuting downtown. There is a huge shift from the periphery to the centre and back each day which creates a diurnal maldistribution that undercuts the convenience of true car sharing and creates in the very least a perception of them undermining transit and downtown parking strategies. Car2Go is a great service and is useful for both its users and the city as a whole, but as a partner in Calgary's transportation system they're going to have to do a better job of evenly distributing their cars. I don't know how it should work -- it'll be tough with our hugely centralized work world -- but I hope they figure it out themselves before something stupid gets regulated for them.

They should work something out with Calgary transit and have Car-2-Go's waiting at C-train stations between 3-6pm. I use to live in the SE and took a feeder bus to and from the train station. I would have much rather drove than taken the bus home.

But I guess that would be cutting into CT's business as well. The car-2-go area would need to be expanded anyways.