PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[JVC]

Originally Posted by greg42

On the other hand, upper level COMMERCIAL/OFFICE space typically is still built with the type of main entrance being whined about.

if you want to whine about something then whine about the fact that the current strada design of the penn-highland building is ugly as sin
this is the design the developer should be building

[JVC]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Just in case you guys haven't figured it out yet, JVC = CFP from City-Data. Nice job outing yourself with the whole alleyway entry meltdown.

good job stating the obvious - the lack of capitalization and the black and white images with red annotation also could have used as clues

let us know when you discover things like legal name, address, social security number, etc.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by greg42

From where I sit you are missing a distinction in the front door discussion. The trend for upper level RESIDENTIAL has for years been to more nondescript entry. Why? Probably several reasons, one key one being that few want to pay rent for a useless lobby type space. In other words, there is more money to be made in ground level retail and giving them the prominent doorway placements vs a ground floor main lobby for an apartment building.

It seems to me the practical function of a fancy entrance is marketing/advertising. It makes sense that a ground floor retail establishment would want to market itself to passerbys. But these days it also makes sense that an apartment building may see little or no benefit to such marketing.

And then there are the overall building effects. All this is tied together because that is the stair and elevator stack over the main entrance lobby:



Would it really be better for that to replace, say, this?



I'd suggest not. It would lose a storefront, and also lose apartment windows with a good view.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

this is the design the developer should be building

That is an overall inferior design from an urbanist perspective. The upper floors are more or less just a matter of taste, but as noted I prefer the clever "sub building" approach to The Penn design, and conversely that large cornice on The Odeon does nothing for me.

But regardless of what one feels about all that, the primary issue is that the lower floors of The Odeon do not have the same strong street wall effect as The Penn. And that patterned blank wall on The Odeon where the historic facades used to be is specifically quite awful. As a result, the new design is far superior at street level in terms of helping to redevelop that stretch of Penn as a pedestrian-friendly, walkable commercial district.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It seems to me the practical function of a fancy entrance is marketing/advertising. It makes sense that a ground floor retail establishment would want to market itself to passerbys. But these days it also makes sense that an apartment building may see little or no benefit to such marketing.

the name of the building is the penn on walnut on highland
the name of the building deliberately names penn avenue and highland avenue, presumably because the developer feels those name have some marketing value

imagine for the sake of argument this apartment building was on a prominent corner in manhattan, say madison and 57th street, and the building was called the madison on 57th

do you believe for a second the developer in that situation would locate the entrance to the building in alley in the back of the building. no way - tenants who paid good money to live at the madison on 57th would want to proudly enter and exit their building on one of those two famous streets (and have the doorman standing outside to greet them and help with their packages)

if the whole idea of this new east liberty apartment building is to be low-key and discreet then putting the address in the name of the building defeats the whole purpose

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd suggest not. It would lose a storefront, and also lose apartment windows with a good view.

if you had an architecture degree you would instantly know that argument is ridiculous

just because the front door might be on penn avenue doesn't mean the elevator/stair tower has to be on penn

you could put the front door on penn where it should be, put the elevator/stair tower in back where it is now and have the lobby on the first floor connect them

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Just in case you guys haven't figured it out yet, JVC = CFP from City-Data. Nice job outing yourself with the whole alleyway entry meltdown.

Damn, I quite CD six months ago just because of this kind of trollishness. I think that I'm going to take a break from this place for a few weeks now as I just can't deal with this crap. Cheers.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

the name of the building deliberately names penn avenue and highland avenue, presumably because the developer feels those name have some marketing value

It is really just a simple locational description. Probably the main benefit as far as the apartments are concerned is just that it will be easy for online searchers (the way the vast majority of younger, higher end tenants find apartments these days) to remember what building that means.

Maybe in some places in NYC, there would be some sort of cachet to your street address. But in Pittsburgh, no one is going to be impressed if you mention your apartment is on Penn or Highland.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

just because the front door might be on penn avenue doesn't mean the elevator/stair tower has to be on penn

So you could waste a bunch more ground floor space and annoy tenants by forcing them to enter on one side but then walk through the building to get to the elevators/stairs on other side, but for what purpose?

And you are still pointlessly sacrificing a store front.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Damn, I quite CD six months ago just because of this kind of trollishness. I think that I'm going to take a break from this place for a few weeks now as I just can't deal with this crap. Cheers.

Sorry, you are right. I'll ignore JVC from now on.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But regardless of what one feels about all that, the primary issue is that the lower floors of The Odeon do not have the same strong street wall effect as The Penn. And that patterned blank wall on The Odeon where the historic facades used to be is specifically quite awful. As a result, the new design is far superior at street level in terms of helping to redevelop that stretch of Penn as a pedestrian-friendly, walkable commercial district.

yeah, the original design of the penn building had a very "strong street wall effect"
before peduto was forced to beg the developer to change it to save face with the preservationists

the "street wall effect" in the original design basically sent the message "go to the retail on the corner" and otherwise do not try to enter this building

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But in Pittsburgh, no one is going to be impressed if you mention your apartment is on Penn or Highland.

then why call the building the penn on walnut at highland? so that people are not impressed?

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Drove past yesterday evening and noticed that they're already taking down the facades from the old buildings.

The fencing is in place and a backhoe is on site. That was quick!

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by JVC

good job stating the obvious - the lack of capitalization and the black and white images with red annotation also could have used as clues

let us know when you discover things like legal name, address, social security number, etc.

I don't care about that stuff, all I'm doing is pointing out to the SSP posters that it's pointless to get into a debate with you. Hopefully we can make sure this place doesn't turn into City-Data II. And with that, on to my block list you go.

[pj3000]

I've been back in Pittsburgh for the past week. Wow! So much construction going on in different areas of the city. Seeing all the projects in just the east end is really good to see. They all seem to be relatively small developments (aside from the new PNC... which is ok... not at all what I was envisioning... oh well), but are very encouraging infill-type projects, which hopefully signal even bigger and better things to come.

Of all the projects I see in Pittsburgh, this one in Oakland really has the scale and target (young professionals, who have generally not been in the Oakland resident mix in large numbers) to dramatically change the neighborhood more than any other project in any location.

[themaguffin]

We have what is seemingly endless pages hyper focused one specific development. In this were a business meeting, the parties involved would be asked to take their conversation offline. How about a separate thread dedicated to the endless discussion of minutia of a building in East Liberty?


Edit: And I just noticed that this marks comment 1800 and a decade on the forum.

[daviderik]

Dollar Tree

[daviderik]

[daviderik]

(Sorry About the size.) Rob Pfaffmann's latest rendering.

[Private Dick]

^ Thanks for the rendering. Looks like it could be a swanky rooftop scene... especially for ghost people since they make up the majority of the crowd. Here ya go: