DALLAS FORT WORTH | Urban + Suburban P & C

[toxteth o'grady]

Originally Posted by Link N. Parker

I dont know if this has been posted or discussed here before, but one of the proposals out there involves removing the I-345 spur that links I-45 with US75. The traffic going from I-45 to 75 would simply reroute around the CBD on the mix-master.

That would be a traffic nightmare equivalent to the single lane from I-35 to the Woodall Rogers.

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by eburress

Some of us feel like the most ideal approach would be to bury I-345, which although it is expensive, seems to be the best of both worlds (regional mobility and the benefits that come from creating a single cohesive neighborhood connecting Downtown with Deep Ellum).

Burying it would be acceptable, but I would rather see that extra $900 Million allocated to building an "elevated train system", that works the way Chicago's EL train works.

Chicago's El train is a more light-weight version of DART and snakes thru neighborhoods; whereas the DART train system is more like Chicago's METRA system, which is a very slow, heavy, train, and requires you to park at a train station, then wait 20+ minutes for the train to arrive. If Dallas DART built a more light-weight system, that you could walk to and that snakes thru neighborhoods the way the EL does, then you would get even more walkability and more ridership. The current DART train is heavy and you have to drive to the train station and park, which more or less defeats the purpose.

OR

Use the money to build out Gold-standard BRT lanes

OR

Use the money to build out really good modern streetcar systems that are like what Portland has (as opposed to the Clunky Junky old-timey "streetcar" in Uptown, which has absolutely no use as a modern public transit mode).

[Thymant]

Originally Posted by Link N. Parker

Burying it would be acceptable, but I would rather see that extra $900 Million allocated to building an "elevated train system", that works the way Chicago's EL train works.

Chicago's El train is a more light-weight version of DART and snakes thru neighborhoods; whereas the DART train system is more like Chicago's METRA system, which is a very slow, heavy, train, and requires you to park at a train station, then wait 20+ minutes for the train to arrive. If Dallas DART built a more light-weight system, that you could walk to and that snakes thru neighborhoods the way the EL does, then you would get even more walkability and more ridership. The current DART train is heavy and you have to drive to the train station and park, which more or less defeats the purpose.

OR

Use the money to build out Gold-standard BRT lanes

OR

Use the money to build out really good modern streetcar systems that are like what Portland has (as opposed to the Clunky Junky old-timey "streetcar" in Uptown, which has absolutely no use as a modern public transit mode).

First off your facts are wrong because the Metra in Chicago is way faster that the CTA or the "El", this is a requirement because the Metra travels way further out than the El does. Dart also is a lot lighter and quieter that the "EL" in Chicago which roars through the track in all the elevated and underground areas and is extremely slow and delayed especially in recent years due to its age, it was actually one of the main concerns with their 2016 Olympic bid. Dart has aspects of both of these lines in the since that it travels with multiple stops in the dense city area like the El, plus it travels far out into the suburbs similar to the Metra. The main issue is not really the Dart itself but the simple fact that people in the immediate Dallas area need to get out of the mind-state that you need to drive your car everywhere or that you can't wait an extra 10-20mins. More ridership will automatically bring a higher frequency of trains and more convince with buses.

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by Thymant

First off your facts are wrong because the Metra in Chicago is way faster that the CTA or the "El", this is a requirement because the Metra travels way further out than the El does. Dart also is a lot lighter and quieter that the "EL" in Chicago which roars through the track in all the elevated and underground areas and is extremely slow and delayed especially in recent years due to its age, it was actually one of the main concerns with their 2016 Olympic bid. Dart has aspects of both of these lines in the since that it travels with multiple stops in the dense city area like the El, plus it travels far out into the suburbs similar to the Metra. The main issue is not really the Dart itself but the simple fact that people in the immediate Dallas area need to get out of the mind-state that you need to drive your car everywhere or that you can't wait an extra 10-20mins. More ridership will automatically bring a higher frequency of trains and more convince with buses.

Well, I do actually live in Chicago (I move back and forth every couple years between Dallas and Chicago) and I agree with what you are saying; Metra does in fact travel faster in between suburbs here in Chicago. However, what I was meaning to communicate was that the timetable is slower; if you miss the Metra, you have to wait 20 to 30 minutes for the next train. Its a "heavy rail" mode that is not flexible like the EL. The EL is a more light rail mode that uses smaller stations, which promote walkability. The EL trains are more "user-friendly" and if you miss a train, its no problem, as another train will arrive in just a couple minutes. Actually, I would say that the Dart trains are somewhere between the EL and Metra.

What Dallas needs, are more DART stations that are strategically positioned within neighborhoods, so that people can walk from their house, to the local station. The "elevated" aspect of Chicago's EL train was designed to create a separate grade so as to not slow down street traffic...so that the train can run un-interrupted by street traffic, and at the same time, so that street traffic is not slowed down by the train. The system works very well in Chicago (although yes, it is dated in some places and needs some upgrades), and it will work well in Dallas too.

[Thymant]

Originally Posted by Link N. Parker

Well, I do actually live in Chicago (I move back and forth every couple years between Dallas and Chicago) and I agree with what you are saying; Metra does in fact travel faster in between suburbs here in Chicago. However, what I was meaning to communicate was that the timetable is slower; if you miss the Metra, you have to wait 20 to 30 minutes for the next train. Its a "heavy rail" mode that is not flexible like the EL. The EL is a more light rail mode that uses smaller stations, which promote walkability. The EL trains are more "user-friendly" and if you miss a train, its no problem, as another train will arrive in just a couple minutes. Actually, I would say that the Dart trains are somewhere between the EL and Metra.

What Dallas needs, are more DART stations that are strategically positioned within neighborhoods, so that people can walk from their house, to the local station. The "elevated" aspect of Chicago's EL train was designed to create a separate grade so as to not slow down street traffic...so that the train can run un-interrupted by street traffic, and at the same time, so that street traffic is not slowed down by the train. The system works very well in Chicago (although yes, it is dated in some places and needs some upgrades), and it will work well in Dallas too.

Well That makes a lot more since and I agree completely, I also lived in Chicago for a number of years, but the only way I think it would realistically be possible for DART to make such a large investment to establish that is for it to gain a greater number of passengers and that would be the main challenge. Maybe if they offered another incentive to ride in order to get people within the immediate area to try it out.

[Owlhorn]

$900 million wouldn't build much rail and won't bury anything. Its a case of get more funding or leave the project for another time.

[Owlhorn]

Originally Posted by eburress

Some of us feel like the most ideal approach would be to bury I-345, which although it is expensive, seems to be the best of both worlds (regional mobility and the benefits that come from creating a single cohesive neighborhood connecting Downtown with Deep Ellum).

If they fixed I-30's interaction I-345 would only be necessary as a 4 lane through only route. That would greatly lighten any burden of any tunnel. Of course, its Texas, so they think every cross street needs its own exit an onramp when this road doesn't need any ramps at all.

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

$900 million wouldn't build much rail and won't bury anything. Its a case of get more funding or leave the project for another time.

True; but I guess the story here, is that I-345 has reached its functional end-of-life and needs a full rip-out and rebuild no matter what. So at least $100,000,000 will need to be spent here, regardless of what they decide to do. So in my mind they might as well look at alternatives that will allow 345 to be ripped out and either buried, or traffic re-routed somehow. As the land is freed up, it will be sold off to build new walkable streets and neighborhoods (apartments, townhouses, condos etc) that will generate property tax revenue. If they do decide to spend the $1 billion to bury it underground etc, then it is a good investment. The city will make the $1 Billion back and turn a profit over time.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by Owlhorn

If they fixed I-30's interaction I-345 would only be necessary as a 4 lane through only route. That would greatly lighten any burden of any tunnel. Of course, its Texas, so they think every cross street needs its own exit an onramp when this road doesn't need any ramps at all.

haha - true. This mockup is pretty close to being my ideal scenario, though I would ensure there were 6 total thru lanes (3 each way) as well as direct connector ramps to/from Woodall Rogers and I-30.



I love how this simplifies the street grid and doesn't sacrifice any of the mobility benefits that could come from having the freeway. They're already going to be spending a ton of money to rebuild the freeway...it seems wise to me to spend a little more to do it right.

[dch526]

Dallas developer eyes Oak Lawn apartment project

A busy Dallas apartment builder has zeroed in on a choice Oak Lawn development site.

Mill Creek Residential Trust is negotiating to buy a vacant half block near the intersection of Oak Lawn Avenue and Cedar Springs Road for a new rental community, according to filings with the City of Dallas.

The more than one-acre site is next door to the Oak Lawn United Methodist Church, which owns the tract and uses part of it for parking. The development site has been for sale for several months, with HFF marketing the property.

The same property previously attracted the attention of Atlanta-based Novare Group which wanted to do a more than 20-story tower.

[R1070]

I think 18 or 19 stories is as tall as the FAA will allow a building to go on that site, but I hope they max it out and don't go with a midrise.

[maconahey]

Perot will tap top talent for downtown Dallas skyscraper project

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/20...-project.html/

Perot said he wants a landmark building to attract a major business tenant to downtown Dallas.

“That site is totally tied to an anchor tenant,” he said. “And there are three or four million square feet of major tenants whose leases are coming due soon.”

With a high-style building as bait and a prime location, Perot’s planned project could land a whopper of an office lease deal – at least he hopes so.

[TTU Arch]

[/QUOTE]

Just a side note. That image makes it look like everything is far apart. That whole area pictured (from the green belt along Katy Trail to downtown) is very walkable and takes no time to get from downtown to uptown by foot. The city has done a great job enhancing this area with trails / parks / zoning enforcement / street scape...etc.

[dch526]

Long-vacant downtown Dallas building needs $10 million from city for extreme makeover

a Dallas City Council committee OK’d putting $10 million in public money toward the makeover.

New Orleans-based Historic Restoration Inc. plans on sinking $56,109,085 into the redo, which will result in 215 residential units (43 of which will be deemed “affordable”), about 13,700 square feet of retail and restaurant space, and 216 residential parking spaces on the second and third floors. The below-ground ground parking will remain off-limits: Those 750 space will be used by the across-the-street Ross Tower.

He reiterated that point to the council, explaining that the $10 million coming out of the Downtown Connection TIF will go towards “demolition and abatement, historic façade restoration, streetscape and utilities.” HRI’s getting $1 million in an affordable housing TIF grant because it’s promising to offer 37 one-bedroom apartments and six two-bedroom units at affordable-housing rates.

[DFW]

Originally Posted by maconahey

Perot will tap top talent for downtown Dallas skyscraper project

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/20...-project.html/

This project skyscraper sounds more promising, looking forward to seeing Texas next tallest 75 to 85 stories. I say it will be announced or a rendering released before the end of the year or early next year.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by DFW

This project skyscraper sounds more promising, looking forward to seeing Texas next tallest 75 to 85 stories. I say it will be announced or a rendering released before the end of the year or early next year.

With 1.5MSF and no height limit I sure hope they shoot for new tallest. 921' (280m) is not really that hard to beat.

Great news though

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

Just a side note. That image makes it look like everything is far apart. That whole area pictured (from the green belt along Katy Trail to downtown) is very walkable and takes no time to get from downtown to uptown by foot. The city has done a great job enhancing this area with trails / parks / zoning enforcement / street scape...etc.[/QUOTE]

Well, the location of that piece of land is not in Uptown though; its in Oak Lawn. Close to Uptown, but there is no way I would want to walk from Downtown to Oak Lawn.

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by DFW

This project skyscraper sounds more promising, looking forward to seeing Texas next tallest 75 to 85 stories. I say it will be announced or a rendering released before the end of the year or early next year.

I can't wait either!

[TTU Arch]

Originally Posted by Link N. Parker

Just a side note. That image makes it look like everything is far apart. That whole area pictured (from the green belt along Katy Trail to downtown) is very walkable and takes no time to get from downtown to uptown by foot. The city has done a great job enhancing this area with trails / parks / zoning enforcement / street scape...etc.

Well, the location of that piece of land is not in Uptown though; its in Oak Lawn. Close to Uptown, but there is no way I would want to walk from Downtown to Oak Lawn.[/QUOTE]

The site location was not point. But the walkability of that area is. I and a few hundred others do it everyday on the Katy Trail including getting to the Katy trail from Uptown and/or Oaklawn.

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

Well, the location of that piece of land is not in Uptown though; its in Oak Lawn. Close to Uptown, but there is no way I would want to walk from Downtown to Oak Lawn.

The site location was not point. But the walkability of that area is. I and a few hundred others do it everyday on the Katy Trail including getting to the Katy trail from Uptown and/or Oaklawn.[/QUOTE]

Ah ok, gotcha. I didnt realize you were walking the Trail. Good idea (Still a long walk! But an enjoyable one).