PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[japmes]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Exclusive: Third Comcast skyscraper possibly in the works as Center City block bought piece-by-piece

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...st-skyscraper-possibly-in-the-works.html

Aren't there residential houses on that block, along 20th Street? I'm having a hard time envisioning a CITC-scale tower in that location. If that's the plan, I predict a lot of neighborhood opposition.

[Plokoon11]

Yeah i say lets take it one comcast tower at a time.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

Yeah i say lets take it one comcast tower at a time.

What David Cohen wants, David Cohen gets.

Yes, along 20th Street there is residential housing.

But if Liberty/Comcast acquire the Charter School... that's a huge lot - 2 surface lots, the Child Advocate center, the Charter School.... all the way to 20th and in the back to Cherry is for the taking.

Like Summers was saying - there aren't eating up these addresses for nothing.

Let's be bold and big - after the Time Warner-Comcast merger ...which will happen - Cohen is powerful .... it will be time for #3!!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Hope were not getting ahead of ourselves with this . I seem to recall there
was plans for a second Comcast high rise when the first one was built . But
I believe that building was to be around 300' tall . It would be off the chart
neat to see another 1,000 footer cater corner to CITC , but right now , I just want to see this big baby topped off .

Originally Posted by japmes

Aren't there residential houses on that block, along 20th Street? I'm having a hard time envisioning a CITC-scale tower in that location. If that's the plan, I predict a lot of neighborhood opposition.

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

Yeah i say lets take it one comcast tower at a time.

I know someone who works for Liberty Property Trust. When I first spoke to him before CITC was official, he said they had four towers in the works. I took this as two towers on the CITC site, one at 19th and Arch which was first proposed as just that corner parking lot at 22 floors, and a fourth tower elsewhere.

Now, what I am led to believe, is that there will be 3 towers on the block bounded by Arch, Cherry, 19th and 20th. I'm sure Comcast is involved, but I highly doubt it will be for more than 500,000 sq ft of space they will take in any future construction.

The only residential buildings are the ones lining 20th Street. The rest are small office buildings/school buildings. Either they'll leave the residential buildings or buy them out which has been done in the past (see 3737 Chestnut project where two residential homes were bought to make way for the new tower).

[iheartphilly]

For those interested, here's the Comcast Center timeline:

http://www.libertyproperty.com/pdfs/Comcast-Center-Development-Timeline.pdf

Assembling property may be a start, but this is honestly years out IMO.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

For those interested, here's the Comcast Center timeline:

http://www.libertyproperty.com/pdfs/Comcast-Center-Development-Timeline.pdf

Assembling property may be a start, but this is honestly years out IMO.

And that's fine, but it's fun to speculate. When the building or buildings get built will obviously depend on when there is demand for them.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

And that's fine, but it's fun to speculate. When the building or buildings get built will obviously depend on when there is demand for them.

yeah, man! Def. fun to speculate.

[Outta here]

[QUOTE=summersm343;

Now, what I am led to believe, is that there will be [B]3 towers[/B] on the block bounded by Arch, Cherry, 19th and 20th. I'm sure Comcast is involved, but I highly doubt it will be for more than 500,000 sq ft of space they will take in any future construction.


So just for the hell of it , lets presume a foot print of approximately 12,000 s.f.

Of course that is also assuming Comcast won't follow in the foot steps of that 3,600 s.f. thing at 432 Park Ave. in N.Y.C.
IF the 3rd. high rise was to average 12 feet in floor height requirements , that works out to around 41 floors ...... or 492 ' . If a 3rd high rise comes to pass , I think that is about what 500,000 s.f. works out to ....... I think . ??

[miesian]

This is BIG news. LPT is assembling a large site, not just the surface lot on 19th. And it's a prime location off Logan Circle with potentially great views.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Hope were not getting ahead of ourselves with this . I seem to recall there
was plans for a second Comcast high rise when the first one was built . But
I believe that building was to be around 300' tall . It would be off the chart
neat to see another 1,000 footer cater corner to CITC , but right now , I just want to see this big baby topped off .

There were, 2 Pennsylvania Plaza. It was supposed to be more of a spec building, though. The little grassy area at 18th and JFK does still have pilings that can support 500 feet on it.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by japmes

Aren't there residential houses on that block, along 20th Street? I'm having a hard time envisioning a CITC-scale tower in that location. If that's the plan, I predict a lot of neighborhood opposition.

I imagine it would not be a Supertall right there: boom! In my some-what-professional opinion, there would be some type of "step up" from the neighborhood. I would image they would actually KEEP the rowhomes there. Especially when they start working with the LSNA, it would be a step up to a 300 or 400 foot building, then a larger building.

Something like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zTtJyf0g_DXU.kpVv1issuuqk

[bawdycav]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I imagine it would not be a Supertall right there: boom! In my some-what-professional opinion, there would be some type of "step up" from the neighborhood. I would image they would actually KEEP the rowhomes there. Especially when they start working with the LSNA, it would be a step up to a 300 or 400 foot building, then a larger building.

Something like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zTtJyf0g_DXU.kpVv1issuuqk

There is no reason to keep those rowhouses. They aren't particularly architecturally remarkable. and they front a high volume street, one of the few in this city, which is more appropriate for higher density.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by bawdycav

There is no reason to keep those rowhouses. They aren't particularly architecturally remarkable. and they front a high volume street, one of the few in this city, which is more appropriate for higher density.

Well theyre individually owned. Im personally against eminent domain for private use, either cut deals or build around them.

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Well theyre individually owned. Im personally against eminent domain for private use, either cut deals or build around them.

I would think they would tempt the owners with say 50-100% over market value if they had to. Especially if they are planning for the future which LPT has the funds to do, they can wait out the owners. Obviously the owners will catch wind of all the buy-ups too so the owners can try to hold out - but LPT can hold out for a couple years on it too I would think and those owners are going to want to cash in. And why not? The owners could move to a bigger, more prestigious, or whatever else floats their boat property. Maybe a house boat? LOL.

The residential owners are in a nice position, that's for sure.

Cheers,
G.

[Aaamazarite]

I just wrote a long statement about how Russell Byers CS's Board of Trustees is one of the cleanest in the city so they probably wouldn't want to sell, but then deleted it when I realized that Binswanger, who represented Comcast in their original deal with Liberty regarding the first Comcast Tower, is on that very board. Now I'm sure Binswanger will urge the Byers family to move somewhere else and build a space shuttle with the money they get from Liberty for a little building they originally bought for $68 per sq ft in 2002.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I imagine it would not be a Supertall right there: boom! In my some-what-professional opinion, there would be some type of "step up" from the neighborhood. I would image they would actually KEEP the rowhomes there. Especially when they start working with the LSNA, it would be a step up to a 300 or 400 foot building, then a larger building.

Something like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zTtJyf0g_DXU.kpVv1issuuqk

Not sure about soil samples or bed rock requirements , but ...........
Wow , what a great location , for something like the cancelled 1050'
City Center Tower . Or at that surface lot between Market & JFK at 22nd. st.
Maybe use a few dozen floors for state government operations

[skyscraper]

[QUOTE=Outta here;6914679]

Originally Posted by summersm343;

Now, what I am led to believe, is that there will be [B

3 towers[/B] on the block bounded by Arch, Cherry, 19th and 20th. I'm sure Comcast is involved, but I highly doubt it will be for more than 500,000 sq ft of space they will take in any future construction.


So just for the hell of it , lets presume a foot print of approximately 12,000 s.f.

Of course that is also assuming Comcast won't follow in the foot steps of that 3,600 s.f. thing at 432 Park Ave. in N.Y.C.
IF the 3rd. high rise was to average 12 feet in floor height requirements , that works out to around 41 floors ...... or 492 ' . If a 3rd high rise comes to pass , I think that is about what 500,000 s.f. works out to ....... I think . ??

Commercial buildings are more like 14' minimum floor to floor, depending on the depth of the floor plate, so natural light can reach deeper into the building. so if your assumption of 41 floors is correct, that comes to 574'.
432 Park Ave is residential, so it might have 12' floor to floors. residential buildings don't need sunlight to penetrate that deeply.

[Cro Burnham]

I'm going to guess that Liberty leaves 20th Street alone: demolition would lead to a MAJOR preservation fight; and even without that, too many owners increase the likelihood of at least one - probably more - hold-out cranks. The legalities could stretch on for years.

Besides, it is actually a pretty nice contiguous stretch of genteel 19th century townhouses. The rest of the block is mid century garbage. The little bit extra strip of land that it gets Liberty is simply not worth the aggravation on many fronts.

I'd see whatever they build ending up something like 2116 Chestnut is to 22nd Street, but with a gracious transition from the rear of the 20th Street houses to what likely be much taller structures at the eastern 2/3 of the site, as per summers' hypothesis.

I'd also guess they'd only build two tall buildings on the site, not three. Seems like three skyscrapers would be packing too much into the block and would necessitate buildings with less efficient small floor plates. I can't see the need for that.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I'm going to guess that Liberty leaves 20th Street alone: demolition would lead to a MAJOR preservation fight; and even without that, too many owners increase the likelihood of at least one - probably more - hold-out cranks. The legalities could stretch on for years.

Besides, it is actually a pretty nice contiguous stretch of genteel 19th century townhouses. The rest of the block is mid century garbage. The little bit extra strip of land that it gets Liberty is simply not worth the aggravation on many fronts.

Yea I really like 20th street on this block, nice old brick townhouses with sycamores hanging out over the street and that very handsome old church across the street. Even if the building(s) being built here are very nice it's hard to imagine they'd be able to create a view on the street that improves what is currently there. Besides if they really do own the rest of the block behind these townhouses there is PLENTY of room for a very tall skyscraper.

My question is do they really own the entire block besides the townhouses? If so that's exciting.

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I'm going to guess that Liberty leaves 20th Street alone: demolition would lead to a MAJOR preservation fight; and even without that, too many owners increase the likelihood of at least one - probably more - hold-out cranks. The legalities could stretch on for years.

Besides, it is actually a pretty nice contiguous stretch of genteel 19th century townhouses. The rest of the block is mid century garbage. The little bit extra strip of land that it gets Liberty is simply not worth the aggravation on many fronts.

I'd see whatever they build ending up something like 2116 Chestnut is to 22nd Street, but with a gracious transition from the rear of the 20th Street houses to what likely be much taller structures at the eastern 2/3 of the site, as per summers' hypothesis.

I'd also guess they'd only build two tall buildings on the site, not three. Seems like three skyscrapers would be packing too much into the block and would necessitate buildings with less efficient small floor plates. I can't see the need for that.

I do remember that the 1988 city plan was designed to encourage large commercial development north of Chestnut and west of broad st. Creating a skyscraper zone and protecting the 19th c. residential fabric south of Chestnut . i.e., Rittenhouse sq , fitler sq etc.There was to be no height limit other than limitations based on the sq footage of the lot in this "skyscrape zone". I'm sure many people might protest demo-ing these row houses in the 20th st area you speak of but the city plan did not try to protect them.