DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[CONative]

There is quite a bit more there since the Google Images. For example, there are large urban-like multiple 4-story buildings and such along MLK and 29th.

http://www.stapletondenver.com/property/greenways-stapleton/

http://www.stapletondenver.com/property/grove-stapleton-aparmtents/

[PLANSIT]

Seems a wee bit premature to conclude what Stapleton is/isn't, except that it's more Wash Park than Cap Hill. And that's ok.

Let's see how it fills out/matures and if any real TOD occurs.

I think its biggest downfall is its proximity to other "like" neighborhoods. It's fairly isolated. Hopefully, the East Line closes that gap a bit.

[Cirrus]

OK, that stuff is fine, and an improvement over what I recall. But we're still talking suburb-done-right territory. Looks a lot like Broomfield/Superior, except on a much better grid instead of in cul-de-sac pods.

But again: That's fine. I'm not complaining about it at all. Wash Park is a suburb done right too, and it's great. Nothing is ever perfect. Stapleton is basically appropriate, and getting better, and its built-in ability to evolve over time is part of what makes it so much better than regular suburbs.

Stapleton is fine. It just doesn't live up to its millennium-era hype, and shouldn't be called perfect. But we knew it wouldn't live up to the hype, and nothing is ever perfect, so no big deal.

[J21bird]

Howdy,
A couple pictures of the sculpture being installed at DUS. http://denverurbanreview.com/2015/01/public-art-installed-at-union-station/

[CharlesCO]

Aww, doesn't this town already have enough cartoon oversized statues?

[bunt_q]

Shhh, it's art. Only a troglodyte criticizes public art.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

Aww, doesn't this town already have enough cartoon oversized statues?

Indeed. Where's my classic station clock and a bronze statue of some notable white guy?

[The Dirt]

Now that mj is legal, all of our weird public art makes sense. I'm sure eating a pot brownie then waking around downtown is going to be on a lonely planet to do list when visiting Denver.

[DenvertoLA]

trippy public art donated by a dispensary would be a great advertising platform

[trubador]

Bradburn in Westminster is a interesting example of trying to make a suburban neighborhood urban-ish.

http://www.bradburnvillage.com/

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Why is the commercial "village center" pushed to Quebec like that and not smack dab in the middle. There should be a grocer somewhere around central park and MLK, no? Quebec is one of the worst roads in the city next to Colorado Blvd.

My wife and I have been to Seaside, FL twice on vacation. For those who don't know it, its where Truman Show was filmed and an example of the principles of New Urbanism planning.

We go there and don't need to drive because there is a market and liquor store smack dab in the middle of the town so that practically every house in Seaside proper is walkable. The town school is also in the middle, walkable from everywhere...

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Paulopolis

While perusing the Denver Development Svcs projects report, I came across the entry for 336 W 13th (13th & Delaware.) I googled the address and found this on loopnet. http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19057786/336-W-13th-Ave-Denver-FL/

There are multiple renderings for a 16-story tower for that address on loopnet. I'm not quite sure what loopnet is even though I've heard it mentioned on SSP before. The page looks like it's just an advertisement for the sale of the land, but I don't understand why there are so many renderings. Could it be project plans being sold along with the land?

Paul looks like everyone glazed over your post. That's a small lot adjacent to Pints Pub on 13th. It's owned by RP Trust. I don't think we've seen renderings of this before, so that's cool. Not sure if it's a viable development, but still kinda cool to see!

Also, there are plans to build a 5 story condo building at 13th and Penn at the old Penn Garage site.

From life on cap hill:

The former Penn Garage at 1300 Ogden Street in Capitol Hill may be redeveloped with a five-story condominium building. Generation Development is planning to incorporate the historic garage into the building, which may include about 30 units. The Penn Garage was built in 1926 and is typical of other such garages constructed in central Denver neighborhoods for residents who did not have their own garages as auto ownership became more prevalent. Pending planning approval construction may begin by late 2015.

[TakeFive]

^^ Regarding Paulopolis's post, if you click on the LoopNet link it's clearly a Broker placed listing for the land. Wouldn't know where the rendering came from; whether it's something they considered or what?

That Penn Garage was/is a classic. May she live perpetuity. May all who choose to live there have great luck with their cars (if they have any).

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

Why is the commercial "village center" pushed to Quebec like that and not smack dab in the middle.

Because Quebec Square relies partly on traffic passing by on Quebec for its customers, not solely on Stapleton residents.

But you're right: Stapleton would be better if the commercial were in the middle rather than off to one side. And there are plenty of examples of new urbanist developments like that. It would've been nice if 29th Street town center were at least in the middle, since it's the smaller / more urban one. The corner of Central Park Blvd and MLK would've been reasonable.

Here's another way it could've been better: More through streets. The grid is good within each sub-neighborhood, and it's fine over by Quebec, but the parts north of Central Park and/or east of Westerly Creek have precious few access points.

A lot of compromises. Again: OK. But imperfect.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

So basically, you are all having kids and moving on to a life in suburbia. You are just doing it with a Denver address, which makes everybody feel better about it. Despite the fact that Stapleton is no more dense or urban than most of what's being built in Lone Tree today. If only we had an endless supply of giant infill sites so we could all live in the suburbs without actually living in the suburbs. Especially Northfield, how is that any different from Commerce City, other than being newer? Basically, Stapleton is Lone Tree for people who work downtown; it's just too far from Stapleton for the other half of the metro that is stuck working in the south suburbs/Tech Center. Maybe those Sun Belt cities that just annex everything have it right. Then nobody ever has to live in the burbs.

If I lived in Lone Tree, I couldn't be at restaurants on Colfax or 17th in 10 minutes. All I'd have nearby would be chains in strip mall parking lots. No to mention, the houses in Lone Tree are all beige stucco and look the same. I actually have old Stapleton neighbors who moved down to Lone Tree and they don't like it. They said they don't know any neighbors, kids don't play outside, and it's too conservative for them. Stapleton isn't "downtown urban", but it's more urban than HR or Lone Tree.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Seems a wee bit premature to conclude what Stapleton is/isn't, except that it's more Wash Park than Cap Hill. And that's ok.

Let's see how it fills out/matures and if any real TOD occurs.

I think its biggest downfall is its proximity to other "like" neighborhoods. It's fairly isolated. Hopefully, the East Line closes that gap a bit.

I'm really curious to see how the TOD turns out in Stapleton. The site plan looks good anyway.

[The Dirt]

It's a very preliminary site plan. I would hold my breath on anything other than park and ride parking for the next 5 to 10 years.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

It's a very preliminary site plan. I would hold my breath on anything other than park and ride parking for the next 5 to 10 years.

Everything I've heard about it is that it will be similar to Belmar in density with similar retail and more higher density residential. If it turns out that way it will be a huge success with the rail station next to it. A lot will depend on the economic climate when it finally gets built.

I have high hopes for the I25/Broadway station TOD as well, which should actually get built out within the next 5 years. What has gone up around there so far has been underwhelming but the Gates site next to the station will hopefully be better.

[mr1138]

I'll certainly concede the point that Stapleton is far from perfect; I guess I just think it should be viewed for progress that it helped create rather that written off as strictly suburban, because those terms aren't so black and white. You are both correct that retail in the middle is better than retail on the edge, and these spaces could have been a lot more cohesive if it had been built that way.

Just to play devils advocate though, it's not as though the world falls off into oblivion across Quebec. Those are all fully built-out residential neighborhoods as well. I suppose I've always assumed that any redevelopment at Quebec Square might likely spur some redevelopment/gentrification across the street, or maybe even work in tandem with a reconstruction of Quebec itself. They pretty clearly left plenty of extra ROW just west of the 29th town center, you can see it in the aerial. This of course would be a "next generation" kind of planning effort, after the redevelopment of the airport itself is completely finished and there are no more newly built single family homes on the market in the area. Traditionally the streets that separate neighborhoods are vibrant places of commerce, not complete voids like how people think of Quebec.

I completely agree with BG918 too that Gates/Alameda is an amazing redevelopment opportunity. Actually on a much larger scale than the Stapleton TOD I would think. This is the kind of location and historic period where they could actually think on the scale of Central Platte Valley style urbanism.

[LAM]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

Why is the commercial "village center" pushed to Quebec like that and not smack dab in the middle. There should be a grocer somewhere around central park and MLK, no? Quebec is one of the worst roads in the city next to Colorado Blvd.

It might be because Stapleton is an infill development that is surrounded by an existing city. So, while it may be on the edge of Stapleton, it's in the middle of a developed area.