Phoenix Development News (3) - Page 334

Jjs5056 · #**6661** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 11:05 PM**

Cool new business opening on 2nd St/Garfield: https://www.facebook.com/thevelophx

It's too bad that part of downtown is littered with so many empty lots that hurt the feeling of continuity. 1st, 2nd and 3rd Street all have small pockets of great places, it would be nice to see some infill to connect the dots.

doppelbanger · #**6662** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 4:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Cool new business opening on 2nd St/Garfield: https://www.facebook.com/thevelophx

It's too bad that part of downtown is littered with so many empty lots that hurt the feeling of continuity. 1st, 2nd and 3rd Street all have small pockets of great places, it would be nice to see some infill to connect the dots.

Great location for that. Love Angels Trumpet House and would love to see that area continue to get better.

Jjs5056 · #**6663** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 6:49 PM**

The more I read about the developments going up on Roosevelt, the more I get frustrated at both sides. For the Wood Partners project on Roosevelt/3rd, I've already discussed how they could have easily modified their (currently pretty sprawling) design to end just west of the former Bodega 420. They're also the same developers of Alta Lofts (Skyline), so are capable of creating a successful URBAN project and its just inane that in an even more commercial-oriented space, they've abandoned those principles (the wrapped garage becomes a standalone building, the retail and live/work is nonexistent). If they wrapped the garage in units, that could provide the density needed to not develop the eastern edge. Together with live/work space on the ground level of Roosevelt - which has been successful and currently fully occupied at Skyline - their project would then become, IMO, more of an asset to the community than a burden despite losing Canvas and the home next door.

However, instead of building within the context of the site to begin with, the developer put forth a cheap, templated design that provides nothing to the community in return with regards to preservation or public space. And, instead of focusing on this compromise, the community is progressively taking an anti-development mentality which is not to the benefit of Roosevelt Row longterm. The latest article on Blooming Rock sums up these views. For starters, in this 'fight,' the building on 7th Avenue shouldn't even be up for discussion. Let Wood demo it and build their complex as planned there. 7th Ave will never be a ped-oriented street and it distracts attention from where it is most needed.

Next, the article talks about how lucky the area was to have been victim to the recession and not seen investment by developers during the last several years... seriously? For a blog that is based on urban principles, this is a wild statement to make. How many times has this very community cried about not having a grocery store? How many small businesses have they lamented the loss of? How can it not be clear that in order for the community to evolve and grow, housing supply is desperately needed. If the recession hadn't happened, maybe there would be quality projects on the table instead of the cheap, value-focused ones being proposed now.

Lastly, the Barron development team keeps claiming that they are open to ideas on how to save the murals and lessen the impact on the community... however, they own not only the entire plot slated for Roosevelt/3rd, but also the lot across the street on 4th and plan to built "more expensive units" there. So, you mean to tell me, with all of that real estate, you can't make the numbers work to preserve that entire building and build around it? That would give them a leasable space to earn revenue on, preserve the murals in whole, and soften the deadzone of apartments being constructed.

So much room in the gray zone for compromise... and yet, the developers are lame and the community prefers dirt lots and abandoned retail to progress.

exit2lef · #**6664** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

The more I read about the developments going up on Roosevelt, the more I get frustrated at both sides. For the Wood Partners project on Roosevelt/3rd, I've already discussed how they could have easily modified their (currently pretty sprawling) design to end just west of the former Bodega 420. They're also the same developers of Alta Lofts (Skyline), so are capable of creating a successful URBAN project and its just inane that in an even more commercial-oriented space, they've abandoned those principles (the wrapped garage becomes a standalone building, the retail and live/work is nonexistent). If they wrapped the garage in units, that could provide the density needed to not develop the eastern edge. Together with live/work space on the ground level of Roosevelt - which has been successful and currently fully occupied at Skyline - their project would then become, IMO, more of an asset to the community than a burden despite losing Canvas and the home next door.

However, instead of building within the context of the site to begin with, the developer put forth a cheap, templated design that provides nothing to the community in return with regards to preservation or public space. And, instead of focusing on this compromise, the community is progressively taking an anti-development mentality which is not to the benefit of Roosevelt Row longterm. The latest article on Blooming Rock sums up these views. For starters, in this 'fight,' the building on 7th Avenue shouldn't even be up for discussion. Let Wood demo it and build their complex as planned there. 7th Ave will never be a ped-oriented street and it distracts attention from where it is most needed.

Next, the article talks about how lucky the area was to have been victim to the recession and not seen investment by developers during the last several years... seriously? For a blog that is based on urban principles, this is a wild statement to make. How many times has this very community cried about not having a grocery store? How many small businesses have they lamented the loss of? How can it not be clear that in order for the community to evolve and grow, housing supply is desperately needed. If the recession hadn't happened, maybe there would be quality projects on the table instead of the cheap, value-focused ones being proposed now.

Lastly, the Barron development team keeps claiming that they are open to ideas on how to save the murals and lessen the impact on the community... however, they own not only the entire plot slated for Roosevelt/3rd, but also the lot across the street on 4th and plan to built "more expensive units" there. So, you mean to tell me, with all of that real estate, you can't make the numbers work to preserve that entire building and build around it? That would give them a leasable space to earn revenue on, preserve the murals in whole, and soften the deadzone of apartments being constructed.

So much room in the gray zone for compromise... and yet, the developers are lame and the community prefers dirt lots and abandoned retail to progress.

Completely agree. As I commented on Facebook, "...The issue of these buildings is quickly becoming oversimplified in terms of good vs. evil, when it's really a much more complex matter of bringing needed residential density to the area, not blighting the area with vacant ground floor retail, and cultivating existing retail and arts spaces that have succeeded. That's a difficult balance to achieve and words like "selfish" and "cancerous" do little to advance the cause, especially when printed in a blog known for its smug condescension toward Phoenix from a position of self-imposed exile in Portland."

exit2lef · #**6665** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

The more I read about the developments going up on Roosevelt, the more I get frustrated at both sides. For the Wood Partners project on Roosevelt/3rd, I've already discussed how they could have easily modified their (currently pretty sprawling) design to end just west of the former Bodega 420. They're also the same developers of Alta Lofts (Skyline), so are capable of creating a successful URBAN project and its just inane that in an even more commercial-oriented space, they've abandoned those principles (the wrapped garage becomes a standalone building, the retail and live/work is nonexistent). If they wrapped the garage in units, that could provide the density needed to not develop the eastern edge. Together with live/work space on the ground level of Roosevelt - which has been successful and currently fully occupied at Skyline - their project would then become, IMO, more of an asset to the community than a burden despite losing Canvas and the home next door.

However, instead of building within the context of the site to begin with, the developer put forth a cheap, templated design that provides nothing to the community in return with regards to preservation or public space. And, instead of focusing on this compromise, the community is progressively taking an anti-development mentality which is not to the benefit of Roosevelt Row longterm. The latest article on Blooming Rock sums up these views. For starters, in this 'fight,' the building on 7th Avenue shouldn't even be up for discussion. Let Wood demo it and build their complex as planned there. 7th Ave will never be a ped-oriented street and it distracts attention from where it is most needed.

Next, the article talks about how lucky the area was to have been victim to the recession and not seen investment by developers during the last several years... seriously? For a blog that is based on urban principles, this is a wild statement to make. How many times has this very community cried about not having a grocery store? How many small businesses have they lamented the loss of? How can it not be clear that in order for the community to evolve and grow, housing supply is desperately needed. If the recession hadn't happened, maybe there would be quality projects on the table instead of the cheap, value-focused ones being proposed now.

Lastly, the Barron development team keeps claiming that they are open to ideas on how to save the murals and lessen the impact on the community... however, they own not only the entire plot slated for Roosevelt/3rd, but also the lot across the street on 4th and plan to built "more expensive units" there. So, you mean to tell me, with all of that real estate, you can't make the numbers work to preserve that entire building and build around it? That would give them a leasable space to earn revenue on, preserve the murals in whole, and soften the deadzone of apartments being constructed.

So much room in the gray zone for compromise... and yet, the developers are lame and the community prefers dirt lots and abandoned retail to progress.

Completely agree. As I commented on Facebook, "...The issue of these buildings is quickly becoming oversimplified in terms of good vs. evil, when it's really a much more complex matter of bringing needed residential density to the area, not blighting the area with vacant ground floor retail, and cultivating existing retail and arts spaces that have succeeded. That's a difficult balance to achieve and words like 'selfish' and 'cancerous' do little to advance the cause, especially when published in a blog known for its smug condescension toward Phoenix from a position of self-imposed exile in Portland."

Jjs5056 · #**6666** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Completely agree. As I commented on Facebook, "...The issue of these buildings is quickly becoming oversimplified in terms of good vs. evil, when it's really a much more complex matter of bringing needed residential density to the area, not blighting the area with vacant ground floor retail, and cultivating existing retail and arts spaces that have succeeded. That's a difficult balance to achieve and words like "selfish" and "cancerous" do little to advance the cause, especially when printed in a blog known for its smug condescension toward Phoenix from a position of self-imposed exile in Portland."

Thank you for posting that. I posted similar takes on other blogs' posts, but the more that get involved, the more that the core issues become diluted as their readers' POV is pretty ignorant of urban issues. They don't realize that the health of Carly's and Lawn Gnome and FilmBar is reliant on development in the area or competition will open where people are choosing to live. These are people who actually prefer parking lots to the noise and construction development causes and who actually believe there is a shortage of parking downtown (see: the request from the Roosevelt Row Merchants Association for the City to study and identify an area in RR for parking "solutions") while supporting the elimination of on-street parking spaces.

In the end, I wouldn't be shocked if Wood says "screw it" and just landbanks 3rd/Roosevelt, leaving the 2 homes to sit empty indefinitely and Canvas to struggle to compete for tenants in a crowded market; for Barron to demolish GreenHaus and the attached office but because of the delays in starting constructions, leaves an empty massive lot; and for there never to be the demand to construct anything - let alone "more expensive" units on 4th/Roosevelt once the surrounding landscape has been destroyed. And, when DeSoto Marketplace, one of the coolest concepts to come downtown, goes under in 6 months because there is virtually no residential base, people will cry over the state of small businesses.

combusean · #**6667** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 8:17 PM**

JJS, what article were you reading? I've scrolled back a bit and couldn't find anything.

Jjs5056 · #**6668** Posted **Jan 23, 2015, 2:07 AM**

Here's a link; granted, it was from a guest contributor, but my points remain. This community continually shows how short-sighted they are and get tunnel vision any time a new project is proposed. A developer wants to restore a historic home into a brewery and can only make those numbers work if he includes apartments for - gasp - people over 55 (see: 'The Row')? GENTRIFICATION. Thank god that project couldn't get financing; the area has been 'blessed' with the beauty that is 2nd Street's string of empty lots and has no old farts with actual disposable income roaming the 20' sidewalks of Roosevelt.

Article: http://bloomingrock.com/2015/01/19/a-dev...-of-phoenixs-most-vibrant-neighborhoods/

exit2lef · #**6669** Posted **Jan 23, 2015, 2:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Here's a link; granted, it was from a guest contributor, but my points remain. This community continually shows how short-sighted they are and get tunnel vision any time a new project is proposed. A developer wants to restore a historic home into a brewery and can only make those numbers work if he includes apartments for - gasp - people over 55 (see: 'The Row')? GENTRIFICATION. Thank god that project couldn't get financing; the area has been 'blessed' with the beauty that is 2nd Street's string of empty lots and has no old farts with actual disposable income roaming the 20' sidewalks of Roosevelt.

Article: http://bloomingrock.com/2015/01/19/a-dev...-of-phoenixs-most-vibrant-neighborhoods/

Interestingly, I believe the author of this Blooming Rock post was involved in the aborted 2nd Street / Knipe House project and was one of its biggest defenders.

HooverDam · #**6670** Posted **Jan 23, 2015, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Interestingly, I believe the author of this Blooming Rock post was involved in the aborted 2nd Street / Knipe House project and was one of its biggest defenders.

You are correct, it's Bob Graham, who's one of the best architects specializing in stabilization and rehabilitation of historic buildings in Phoenix. He did the DeSoto Building, and is now doing that warehouse on Van Buren that I can't reclal the name of.

exit2lef · #**6671** Posted **Jan 23, 2015, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam

You are correct, it's Bob Graham, who's one of the best architects specializing in stabilization and rehabilitation of historic buildings in Phoenix. He did the DeSoto Building, and is now doing that warehouse on Van Buren that I can't reclal the name of.

Despite all the good he's done with these other projects, I find it ironic that his widely circulated essay about the current Roosevelt Row controversy has the same alarmist tone as the opposition to his own project.

PHX31 · #**6672** Posted **Jan 26, 2015, 4:09 PM**

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I saw that MetroWest's Townhomes on 3rd development is under construction. They have most of the foundations complete. This is a perfect development for that area of Roosevelt/Northern Downtown. Takes up a lot, isn't too tall, has walk up units, and is nestled right next to a beautiful historic house.

Hopefully they sell quickly and I hope they can get started on The Union. If nothing else, at least it shows that MetroWest is serious.

Jackdavis4 · #**6673** Posted **Jan 26, 2015, 6:15 PM**

Has there been any news on groundbreaking for union or ballpark?

Jjs5056 · #**6674** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I saw that MetroWest's Townhomes on 3rd development is under construction. They have most of the foundations complete. This is a perfect development for that area of Roosevelt/Northern Downtown. Takes up a lot, isn't too tall, has walk up units, and is nestled right next to a beautiful historic house.

Hopefully they sell quickly and I hope they can get started on The Union. If nothing else, at least it shows that MetroWest is serious.

It's been mentioned, but thanks for the update.

I agree that it's a great infill project. I think all empty lots from 2nd Ave-7th Ave, Roosevelt-McKinley are ideal for similar development.

No updates on Union and Ballpark. I think Union will happen eventually; unsure about Ballpark. They already completed the 'hard part' of the agreement, which was renovating the warehouse at Lincoln/3rd St. I still think there are so many more uses for the Gerardos and El Fresno warehouses on Buchanan/3rd than to be used as a clubhouse/leasing office, s part of me hopes the project fails and a better one comes along eventually. OTOH, 4-story market rate apartments in the Warehouse District would be a pretty big game-changer and might spur some other, better projects.

Jjs5056 · #**6675** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 7:03 AM**

I had asked about a historic building on the corner of McKinley and 3rd St recently; it's hidden under horrible renovations and a recent slathering on of white paint. According to permits, it's under renovation to become a restaurant; the name of the project is "800 M MILK BAR" - hopefully the name isn't Milk Bar?

Has anyone been by this area and noticed what, if any, work has been done? I hope they restore the exterior to a somewhat decent-looking version of the former historic home.

With this and Songbird Coffee moving in across the street, I hope Matt Poole reopens the Tavern into whatever concept he had originally envisioned. Seems like such a waste sitting there as activity finally picks up around it. The demo permits have been pulled for 4th/McKinley - one of the best projects proposed downtown, offering 10 live/work units in 5-stories. Some great things happening in the area just south of Roosevelt... too bad the developers couldn't help that area out with some quality projects instead of ripping Roosevelt Street down to its bones. Oh well.

--

My original post:
Does anyone know who owns the building on the northeast corner of 3rd st/McKinley? Apparently, that home was built in 1909 but you would never know it with the alterations made to it. It was somewhat salvageable in its state a few years back when it was an art gallery, but whoever took over afterward has literally took white spray paint and covered the entire building - windows, roofing, everything. They also ripped out all the mature landscaping.

The fact that there's a gorgeous brick 1909 house under there makes me so upset, but the fact that someone would make it look so positively ghastly is something I'm not comprehending.

From 2011: http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.co...-arnott-house/

PHX31 · #**6676** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 2:46 PM**

4th ave?/McKinley? Which one are you talking about? Is there a rendering?

I haven't seen work being done at 3rd, but I do remember seeing that house under the additions when I first went to the Roosevelt tavern and hoped someday something similar could be done to bring that house back to life. I think at one point it was slated for demo for a housing project.

turpentyne · #**6677** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 3:44 PM**

Man, oh man!

As somebody living in Garfield, and having spent the last 15 years enjoying Roosevelt Row, I think the problem is that no developer seems to understand the idea of incorporating their ideas with the existing place. It's not about wanting empty lots AT ALL. It's about not wanting to lose the identity of that location.

I'm seeing Condos planned to go up, left and right, without concern for anything there. The reaction to a De Grazia mural that locals want to save, is "It's not an important artist". But that negates the opinion of the locals. They should have a say.

There are condos planned for Roosevelt now, around 8th street through 9th street. The fence went up a week or so ago. That's fine. It's in-fill. They're not tearing anything down.

The corner of 3rd and roosevelt, where the taco shop and such are, is now rumored to become a pile of rubble, making way for MORE condos. (And the city is ticketing people for parking in the dirt lot behind at $290 a pop, despite having a sign advertising it for rent as superbowl parking) Fence THAT up and build on it. Leave the existing structures alone.

The only one that nobody seems to mind losing is the Scientology building, but leave the building next to it alone!

I want more buildings. But not at the sacrifice of what's there. Because what's there is one of the MAIN REASONS anybody even considered building there. Cutting off one's architectural/cultural nose, to spite the face. Stop seeing it as a bunch of bohemian riff-raff, and see it for what it is... A wonderful benefit to a city that leans toward the mundane, whether we believe it or not.

Jjs5056 · #**6678** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31

4th ave?/McKinley? Which one are you talking about? Is there a rendering?

I haven't seen work being done at 3rd, but I do remember seeing that house under the additions when I first went to the Roosevelt tavern and hoped someday something similar could be done to bring that house back to life. I think at one point it was slated for demo for a housing project.

4th STREET/McKinley; sorry for not making it clear. This is the project that caused the galleries in the current location to close and relocate, which caused a bit of a fuss. It stinks to see fully-leased space being demo'd with the amount of dirt lots nearby, but the development is definitely a 'win.' It's 5 stories, which is perfect height, and includes 10 ground level live/work units which will help keep both McKinley and 4th Street active. It also creates a nice neighborhood feel with Skyline Lofts and Roosevelt Pointe to the north and south. Lastly, unlike so many projects, it wisely uses the existing alleyway for garage access so no dead zones are created for parking.

Here is a link to a rendering: http://azbex.com/live-work-apartments-in-the-mix-for-downtown-phoenix/

PHX31 · #**6679** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

4th STREET/McKinley; sorry for not making it clear. This is the project that caused the galleries in the current location to close and relocate, which caused a bit of a fuss. It stinks to see fully-leased space being demo'd with the amount of dirt lots nearby, but the development is definitely a 'win.' It's 5 stories, which is perfect height, and includes 10 ground level live/work units which will help keep both McKinley and 4th Street active. It also creates a nice neighborhood feel with Skyline Lofts and Roosevelt Pointe to the north and south. Lastly, unlike so many projects, it wisely uses the existing alleyway for garage access so no dead zones are created for parking.

Here is a link to a rendering: http://azbex.com/live-work-apartments-in-the-mix-for-downtown-phoenix/

I figured that's what you were talking about after looking at google earth. First I went to 4th Ave and McKinley and saw a perfectly blank slate lot and knew there wasn't a reason for a demo permit. Then, after looking at 4th St and McKinley I remembered the demise of those galleries.

1. So this means that project is a "go" I guess, right? Do you know of a construction timeline after demo is complete?

2. Hasn't something also been proposed for the 4th Ave/McKinley vacant lot? That's a perfect sized piece of land for something similar to what was built at 5th Ave/McKinley.

Jjs5056 · #**6680** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turpentyne

Man, oh man!

As somebody living in Garfield, and having spent the last 15 years enjoying Roosevelt Row, I think the problem is that no developer seems to understand the idea of incorporating their ideas with the existing place. It's not about wanting empty lots AT ALL. It's about not wanting to lose the identity of that location.

I'm seeing Condos planned to go up, left and right, without concern for anything there. The reaction to a De Grazia mural that locals want to save, is "It's not an important artist". But that negates the opinion of the locals. They should have a say.

There are condos planned for Roosevelt now, around 8th street through 9th street. The fence went up a week or so ago. That's fine. It's in-fill. They're not tearing anything down.

The corner of 3rd and roosevelt, where the taco shop and such are, is now rumored to become a pile of rubble, making way for MORE condos. (And the city is ticketing people for parking in the dirt lot behind at $290 a pop, despite having a sign advertising it for rent as superbowl parking) Fence THAT up and build on it. Leave the existing structures alone.

The only one that nobody seems to mind losing is the Scientology building, but leave the building next to it alone!

I want more buildings. But not at the sacrifice of what's there. Because what's there is one of the MAIN REASONS anybody even considered building there. Cutting off one's architectural/cultural nose, to spite the face. Stop seeing it as a bunch of bohemian riff-raff, and see it for what it is... A wonderful benefit to a city that leans toward the mundane, whether we believe it or not.

I don't think you'll find much disagreement here. Looks like you have a few of the details mixed up regarding locations and such, so just to summarize:

1. Barron Properties (1) - iLuminate - NWC of 3rd St/Roosevelt: 4 stories, single-use, demolishing Scientology building and GreenHAUS building

Consensus seems to be that this is one of the least offensive developments, and it's admirable that the developer at least reached out to the DeGrazia foundation and is trying to be a decent steward for the community. However, the project would be MUCH better if it incorporated the GreenHAUS building into its design, solving the historic preservation debate while reducing the dead zone a long block of apartments creates.

2. Barron Properties (2) - Linear - SWC of 4th St/Roosevelt: 4 stories, single-use, empty land; this project seems dependent on the success of iLuminate and will include more expensive condos or rentals. For that reason, and the fact that it is again single-use, I'm not totally in support of this project as much as this one lot is near the top of my "please develop" list. Roosevelt Row isn't the place for expensive/luxury condos or apartments. It needs to be affordable for those who have made the place into the destination it has become.

3. Wood Partners (1) - Alta Fillmore - SEC of 7th Avenue/Fillmore: 4 stories, single-use, mostly empty land; it will be demolishing one, older building with good bones, but given the massacre the other projects propose, I say 'pick your battles' and welcome the density in an under-served area.

4. Wood Partners (2) - NEC of 3rd St/Roosevelt: 4 stories, single-use, demolishing Canvas, and two historic homes; probably the most offensive project in that it doesn't concede ANYTHING to the community and instead plows away everything in its path, replacing it with apartments that will likely be out of reach for the displaced retail tenants to live in. My suggested solution is to modify the design on the east-side to keep the Bodega 420 house in tact, and to include ground level live/work units along Roosevelt to replace the retail this project will be displacing.