Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4 - Page 92

Comrade · #**1821** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

Rendering I found:

The rendering actually looks better than the final product - though, I am not feelin' the green.

Twothirty8 · #**1822** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 3:32 AM**

Luinguisize, alas, I am not sure on the amount. My little bird isn't up to speed on development/construction lingo. I'm guessing she heard wrong, and I am guessing the amount to be around 30 cubic yards. I do know you can see them digging it up, and I do know that it has set the construction back a bit. I am not sure of the type of cement used.

If anyone wants to tour the PAC, there is a free tour every Wednesday. I'm trying to figure out when and where.

linguisize · #**1823** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 3:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twothirty8

Luinguisize, alas, I am not sure on the amount. My little bird isn't up to speed on development/construction lingo. I'm guessing she heard wrong, and I am guessing the amount to be around 30 cubic yards. I do know you can see them digging it up, and I do know that it has set the construction back a bit. I am not sure of the type of cement used.

I see, no worries. Even 30yds is a rather large sum to have to dig back out. 30 yards of concrete, rebar and whatever else is a pain to deal with for sure.

Quote:

If anyone wants to tour the PAC, there is a free tour every Wednesday. I'm trying to figure out when and where.

Now that would actually be cool! I'm sure it would help answer a lot of the speculation going on around here about both projects.

Makid · #**1824** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 3:59 PM**

Minor news,

The Hyatt House (SW Corner of 3rd West and 1st South) now has a sign along 3rd West stating that it is open.

wrendog · #**1825** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 4:04 PM**

No google fiber for SLC (or san antonio

) this round

http://www.wsj.com/articles/google-to-announce-fiber-expansion-in-four-cities-1422322192

jubguy3 · #**1826** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 4:13 PM**

From another article: "In February 2014, Google said it was considering building Fiber in nine new metro areas. The other cities are Salt Lake City, San Antonio, Phoenix, Portland, Ore. and San Jose, Calif. Google has told some officials in those cities that it hasn't ruled them out, and has yet to make a final decision."

asies1981 · #**1827** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twothirty8

Dear development nerds,

I would invite you all to the Clean Air Utah Rally at the State Capital on Saturday at 12pm. Our clean air issues are all based upon money, so how is it that Utah's big business doesn't see that our poor air is hindering economic growth and quality of life? Does big business even give a —? And, if Mexico City can make such dramatic changes to their air quality why and the hell can't Utah? Oh, that's right, money and politics.

Insider PAC news. I heard from a friend on the PAC development board that the parking garage on Regent St will have ground shops built into it, and their is a very good possibility that the lots across from Gallivan Center will be developed... I can only hope that little hideous yellow POS building will be torn down. But before it does I would like to have a public rock throwing/sledgehammer party.

Also, the PAC tower would be much further along if it weren't for someone pouring over 300sq ft of the wrong cement, which means that cement, etc is being dug up at the moment.

Other than that. Great work with the development news everyone. I'm super excited about the new Fairpark Stadium.

And Isaac, SLCity.org rules!

Thank you for the shout out man, starting a new news blog takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears, lol. Based on the plans for engaging the street level along Regent street, ground-floor retail makes sense. It will be nice to break up the downtown blocks a bit.

asies1981 · #**1828** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by delts145

Thank you Isaac. Your weigh in is most welcome on the subject. While I share some of the frustration of those who are impatient for new tallest, I think most of us agree that Salt Lake City and it's gorgeous linear metro is filling in at a rate that is among the fastest in the nation. If being at the top tier of lists like Brookings, Milken, Forbes and Money don't say boom, then what does? Also, the vast majority of us have voiced a strong preference for a dense, vibrant, curbside attractive CBD and urban nodes NOW, with new tallest to follow over a natural maturation of time. As many have pointed out, and I've seen it often first hand myself. There are many attractive skylines from a distance, that reveal a very anemic vitality when standing in their core. Not only will they never have the Wasatch 'in your face stunning setting', but they don't have the portfolio of monumental historical architecture, or the palette of bones and infrastructure. This is particularly true between the Mississippi and West Coast.

I agree that much of the Wasatch vibrant growth is being generated by it's larger than average population of youngsters. However, it's a very positive sign that much of the upcoming local generation is able to find gainful employment in many areas of the local economy that will sustain a decent lifestyle. That is more than can be said for a large number of states. And for those of you who find it difficult to live on a mediocre salary, try doing it in California, as is the plight of many millions of Californians. The haves and have not's gap in places like California has become very wide.

Speaking of inward growth. Not that this is any kind of scientific statistic. Have any of you who frequent a gym noticed over the past ten years the major change in the makeup of homegrown members vs. newbies. I can't help but notice when I make runs to the Wasatch and work out at a local gym, how much the mix of transplants has increased. There's no more a sea of toe heads, but a major shift in variety of ethnicity and native origin. Native in the sense from other countries, but also other states. Again, I say this only because it has been so glaringly obvious to me, and my own origin of Mediterranean appearance.

Wow, moving the refineries!!! Now, that for me would be a long held dream come true. I have always resented with a passion their existence in that gateway location. As much as I would like to see the prison eventually moved, I would far rather the refineries be given a priority by the legislature over the prison. I would be curious to know though where exactly they're thinking they should be moved? Any of you who are more expert on energy refining have some ideas of the better suited locations. Should they go somewhere outside of Wendover? Maybe hidden out of site to the south and far west of a Nephi, or even Delta??

Also, anyone who can give me a reality check on the current power base of political representation for the refinery area? For example, say the prison area has, or the former Geneva site had a lot of political clout living in the back yard of their respective locations. Politicians living in Provo/Orem or So. Salt Lake/No. Utah Counties would be far more likely to push their agenda for their own back yard.

Another point. Would a Geneva/Prison style fantastical urban core be allowed to develop in that area? Are the proponents intent on making it pristinely empty? If they're not willing to make some kind of concessions to powerful development lobbies, then fat chance they'll get any kind of legislative force behind them. I say make the area a model of sustainable urban development, and even ironically LEED Certified.

On the other hand. Aren't they spending a fortune to pipe oil directly from the Uintah Basin to those refineries? Also, there's that major pipeline going from Salt Lake to Vegas? How does that effect the outcomes?

Let's get a healthy discussion going on this, and on this thread. It is most definitely a Salt Lake Development issue of major importance. I hope no one thinks we need to put this in a second tier energy thread!

Thank you for the kind words. Air quality is a personal issue for me. I lost my brother to complications from Cystic Fibrosis in 2011. The winter inversions literally took years off his life and he had to be hospitalized just about every time there were red days. We talk about this being Salt Lake's moment, but people won't move here if it is to the detriment of their health.

Old&New · #**1829** Posted **Jan 27, 2015, 10:09 PM**

It's not just the refineries, but also rio tinto, sand pits, construction equipment, school busses, semi trucks, personal automobiles, fireplaces, etc.

There are two requirements that I know of for refinery locations:
-located along a pipeline
-located along a railroad.

I guess you could always build new rail or pipe, but it will cost that much more.

Merewether · #**1830** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 1:54 AM**

A slightly different perspective of downtown courtesy Visit Salt Lake via Downtown Alliance.
https://twitter.com/visitsaltlake/status/559792566153916417

Stuxnet · #**1831** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 2:00 AM**

I have never been a fan of the inversion... Take yesterday for example I made the mistake of going for a run outside and I had to end early because is felt like I was drowning in my own lungs and couldn't stop coughing and mind you I live up on the mountain top where the air is significantly cleaner. But I have to admit that I would strangly miss the refineries if they were to move (which they aren't, I think it is more of a pipe dream) I mean during the day they are ugly but add a nice like industrial vibe to the beck street area.. my friends would always joke you have to drive through the Valley of Ashes to get Salt Lake City (you'll get that reference if you've read The Great Gatsby) and at night I like them I find them pretty too look at with the lights almost looking like a distant futuristic city.

Comrade · #**1832** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuxnet

I have never been a fan of the inversion...

There are fans of the inversion?

jubguy3 · #**1833** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 3:36 AM**

I LOVE LUNG CANCER! Inversions are the best! The strange smell in the air soothes my nasal pallet. I sit in the jordan river and let the pollution coat my lungs! /s

Old&New · #**1834** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 3:40 AM**

jubguy3 · #**1835** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

What? Sometimes I will go to the top of the Kennecott smokestack. The lead helps me loose weight and stupider! Refinery too. Flare up MORE POLLUTION FEED ME STERICYCLE

RC14 · #**1836** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 8:13 AM**

^
I hate being able to see the entire valley from Ensign Peak.

Scraperdude801 · #**1837** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade

There are fans of the inversion?

As a kid, I thought it was very big city of us. NYC had steam coming from its sewers, while SLC had a grey blanket. The inversion was also easy on the eyes, minus the itching/burning sensation.

DCRes · #**1838** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 4:26 PM**

All in all it seems like the inversion hasn't been as bad this year as in past years. There has been a somewhat steady breeze that I think has cleared the air out. I'm sure it's not that overall pollution has decreased, I think we've just been lucky with the weather. I always hate when I see all the people downtown for OR and the air is terrible. All these tourists come in and are left with bad air as their impression of SLC. I noticed particularly decent air quality during the days of OR this year.

Hatman · #**1839** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 5:45 PM**

Moving the refineries would make only a small difference in air quality. From all the sources I've read, the refineries contribute about 11% of particulate pollution to the smog. Other industries (notably Kennecott), combined with home heating/badly insulated homes contributes 1/3, of all particulate pollution. Amazingly, wood-burning stoves alone contribute 8% - nearly as much as the refineries!!
But it's cars and transportation that contribute the must - a massive 57% of particulate pollution.
So do you really hate the inversion? If you do, DRIVE LESS.
In other words, if UTA can double its ridership (assuming that ridership removes an equal number of car trips) it will have a much greater impact on pollution than moving the refineries ever can.
People like to blame industry and refineries for bad air, because it's an easy association for the brain to make. It's much harder for people to visualize all the hundreds and hundreds of collective tail-pipes in the valley spewing out gasses that are much, much dirtier than anything released by industry. And then there is psychological incentives to blame the refineries because it is easier than blaming yourself or changing your habits.
Bottom line: There is pollution because we all want to blame other sources for it. Nobody wants to own it - and until we do, we will continue to die two years earlier than if we had chosen to do something about it.

RC14 · #**1840** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 6:13 PM**

^
That may be true but 11% is quite a bit. How many cars would you have to take off the road to cut 11%? Almost 1/4?
As hard as it would be to move the refineries it is probably much easier than taking that many cars off the road especially when you factor in all the vehicles that are for commercial use such as semi trucks, buses etc. and look at how much of the population does not live and/or work close enough to transit to utilize it. My Dad hates driving and would take transit if he could but UTA doesn't run the right buses during hours that would allow him to do that.

Cars and transit may account for 57% of air pollution but that is with 1.2 Million people driving around. It's going to take allot of people to change in order to make a dent in that.