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  #6221  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 5:02 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Is that the former Philadelphia Electric power plant right next to Penn Treaty Park, or is there another such power plant in Fishtown?
Thats the one
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  #6222  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 5:23 PM
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If not the amount of skyscraper cranes visible during the Pope's visit. Just the site of such cranes will provide enough details.
Business will flock to Philadelphia, and god knows we need it.
For me, it's the (hopefully--fingers crossed) Democratic Convention in Summer 2016. Just imagine what these projects will look like then. And, I suspect that Philly, as a city, would get a lot more media coverage than it will during the Pope's visit. In fact, I could see the Dems actually featuring Philly and it's imagery as essentially a continuous ad for the economic and development progress being made in a traditionally Democratic northeastern city (perceived by many across the country--albeit erroneously--as a decaying old industrial rust-belt has-been) under both city and state Democratic leadership. Not to mention that, although we've all become kind of used to the idea of her (inevitable?) candidacy after hearing about it for years, it WILL be quite historic if (when?) HRC officially becomes the first female presidential candidate and, again, Philly as a historically meaningful backdrop to that can be quite a media bonanza.

DISCLAIMER: no politics intended here, just purely apolitical media, marketing, and public relations analysis.
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  #6223  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 10:16 PM
acenturi acenturi is offline
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For me, it's the (hopefully--fingers crossed) Democratic Convention in Summer 2016. Just imagine what these projects will look like then. And, I suspect that Philly, as a city, would get a lot more media coverage than it will during the Pope's visit.......
I believe the Pope's visit is likely to generate much more media coverage than the DNC, with the the big difference being, that it will be International coverage.
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  #6224  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 10:42 PM
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I believe the Pope's visit is likely to generate much more media coverage than the DNC, with the the big difference being, that it will be International coverage.
I think the point he's trying to make is even if the pope visit is a big deal, at that event the pope is the star, Philly is just a backdrop. A political convention provides more provides much more an opportunity for Philadelphia itself to shine.

For what it's worth I have no idea where the pope went the last time this event took place. I can however easily recall the DNC was in Charlotte last year and the RNC was in Tampa.
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  #6225  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 11:38 PM
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I think the point he's trying to make is even if the pope visit is a big deal, at that event the pope is the star, Philly is just a backdrop. A political convention provides more provides much more an opportunity for Philadelphia itself to shine.

For what it's worth I have no idea where the pope went the last time this event took place. I can however easily recall the DNC was in Charlotte last year and the RNC was in Tampa.
Exactly. For example, several of the national talk/news shows would no doubt broadcast or do spots from Philly, and as I said, the Dems probably would try to take advantage of Philly settings. I just don't see Philly, as a city, being a major part of the coverage of the Pope's visit, and especially of the international coverage. Images of the Pope conducting a Mass on the Parkway? Absolutely. But beyond that? Not so much. Also, you won't have the continuous, widespread, week-long coverage of the Pope's visit that you normally have with the national political conventions with, again, all of the pundits and guests talking and being interviewed in Philly locales throughout the day before the evening coverage of the actual convention. Not to mention all of the skyline and landmark location-establishing shots at beginnings of televised segments, which I just don't see as being as big a part of the coverage of the Pope.

Last edited by Philly Fan; Jan 17, 2015 at 11:51 PM.
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  #6226  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 12:55 AM
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I think you are somewhat missing the point that it's her job to be hypercritical. It's not her job to propose realistic alternatives. She is not the architect or developer. Her job is to point out problems and get people talking and working to address poor and ill-fitting building designs. I am not an architect so I can't say how effective she is. I would not think people actually alter construction proposals based on her critique; however, that does not mean there is no impact. But as I said, I am not defending Inga's body of work or global positions (which are case-specific and vary in being ill-advised depending on the situation). I will agree with her critique of this building as crap. And there are realistic alternatives even if not the luxury tower Inga may favor. Let's move on.
I think it's just natural for people to have a love/hate relationship with any professional critic. We get annoyed when a critic praises a restaurant we hate, or criticizes one we love. We get annoyed when a critic does the same with movies.

The reason Saffron is employed is the same reason most of us are on this message board. If she wasn't writing it, one of us might be. Curbed and Hidden City do a lot of critiquing of their own. It's just easier to bash/love Saffron because she's at the top of the pyramid.

I really doubt architects anywhere are concerned with the opinions of critics. It's a more niche area of journalism than, say, movie reviews. Plus, once a building is approved, architects don't rely on critics the way movie producers rely on critics to sell tickets. However, one thing I do like about Saffron is she tends to write from the point of view of most Philadelphians, not just those technically schooled, or even informed, about the elements of design and architecture.

I've read pieces by New York Times' critic Nicolai Ouroussoff that talk down to his audience with academic jargon. He's condescending. Saffron, although sometimes she sounds scattered, talks about architecture in a relatable way, even if we disagree. I think she understands that architecture is the one art that everyone must endure.

Likewise, I think Philadelphia's general public is much more opinionated and informed about architecture and development than they are in other cities, and that's why I think much of what we get is better than cities of comparable size. Whether it's Saffron, Curbed, Philebrity, Hidden City, or this message board, we demand much more than Seattleites, Los Angelenos, Washingtonians, and even a lot of New Yorkers. Whereas residents of Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta largely regard their city as a place to live, we tend to look at Philadelphia the city as another one of our residents. Like a city in a comic book, Philadelphia is its own character like Gotham or Metropolis.

I have to think that good architects not only consider that when designing something architecturally influential, but also embrace the fact that most Philadelphians really want to see the best. It pays off. Just put any skyline in the Southeast or West Coast next to Philadelphia.
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  #6227  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 1:13 AM
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Thats the one
Oh man... How awesome would it be to see a line of development all the way from Penn's Landing up to Fishtown and beyond? Philly's getting to be quite exciting!
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  #6228  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 2:33 AM
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Oh man... How awesome would it be to see a line of development all the way from Penn's Landing up to Fishtown and beyond? Philly's getting to be quite exciting!

The Delaware River is begging for it! Developers just need to grow a pair and do it!
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  #6229  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 3:37 AM
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The Delaware River is begging for it! Developers just need to grow a pair and do it!
Ya alot of guys have lost money trying like waterfront square
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  #6230  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 2:08 PM
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  #6231  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 4:37 PM
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Mmm...I am bullish on the Gallery. But Coppola's statements and this article don't give me the same kind of confidence that it will be the revitalization we hope for that Killinger and NREA's plans for East Market with Mom's etc.... do

1. SLS is not really that close to the Gallery. That's what you are trying to sell your investors on?

2. I have stayed at SLS hotels. Hotel guests are more likely to visit the Walnut Street shops (maybe Chestnut) than visit the stores the Gallery will feature (even with the anticipated improvement in store quality of the new Gallery)

3. Primark could be hit or miss here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...mark-high-street-cheer-on-the-cheap.html

On the one hand, "Robbie Williams, Joan Collins and Kate Moss are said to be fans" On the other hand, "cheap, disposable fashion"/4 £ dress. Primark may attract all socio-economic classes in its own country. But a big, discount retailer that Americans don't really know that sells clothes cheap may not be the beset revitalization impetus in THIS area with its own particular history (that we all know well). Just spitballing here...

At least there's no way that the building revamp can't be a big improvement.

Last edited by jsbrook; Jan 18, 2015 at 4:58 PM.
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  #6232  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 4:38 PM
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I think it's just natural for people to have a love/hate relationship with any professional critic. We get annoyed when a critic praises a restaurant we hate, or criticizes one we love. We get annoyed when a critic does the same with movies.

The reason Saffron is employed is the same reason most of us are on this message board. If she wasn't writing it, one of us might be. Curbed and Hidden City do a lot of critiquing of their own. It's just easier to bash/love Saffron because she's at the top of the pyramid.

I really doubt architects anywhere are concerned with the opinions of critics. It's a more niche area of journalism than, say, movie reviews. Plus, once a building is approved, architects don't rely on critics the way movie producers rely on critics to sell tickets. However, one thing I do like about Saffron is she tends to write from the point of view of most Philadelphians, not just those technically schooled, or even informed, about the elements of design and architecture.

I've read pieces by New York Times' critic Nicolai Ouroussoff that talk down to his audience with academic jargon. He's condescending. Saffron, although sometimes she sounds scattered, talks about architecture in a relatable way, even if we disagree. I think she understands that architecture is the one art that everyone must endure.

Likewise, I think Philadelphia's general public is much more opinionated and informed about architecture and development than they are in other cities, and that's why I think much of what we get is better than cities of comparable size. Whether it's Saffron, Curbed, Philebrity, Hidden City, or this message board, we demand much more than Seattleites, Los Angelenos, Washingtonians, and even a lot of New Yorkers. Whereas residents of Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta largely regard their city as a place to live, we tend to look at Philadelphia the city as another one of our residents. Like a city in a comic book, Philadelphia is its own character like Gotham or Metropolis.

I have to think that good architects not only consider that when designing something architecturally influential, but also embrace the fact that most Philadelphians really want to see the best. It pays off. Just put any skyline in the Southeast or West Coast next to Philadelphia.
Good points. I agree on a lot of that.
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  #6233  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 5:14 PM
PhillySteaks PhillySteaks is offline
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Rodin

That project behind the Rodin will never be built. If he can up zone the land he can flip the space for a great return and let another developer take on the building costs and design costs. It's a basic RE investment play. You can't get a zoning change though unless you present a project that seems feasible. His lack of thought and energy on the project shows his hand. He's in it for the flip. I wouldn't worry about it. As for Inga, she's one more opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  #6234  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 5:48 PM
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The Delaware River is begging for it! Developers just need to grow a pair and do it!
I have faith that something awesome will come of all of this.

If this was Pittsburgh we're talking about here, I would not be getting my hopes up! That's another ball of wax, tho. I've seen what Philly has been doing over the years, and so far I like. The CITC (why can't they just call it Comcast Two or Two Comcast Center and refer to 1701 JFK as One Comcast?) is going to look awesome once it's finished. I do kinda wish that building was going to be a few floors taller tho.
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  #6235  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 6:17 PM
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Neighborhood revitalization needs a targeted approach

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/ho...alization_needs_a_targeted_approach.html
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  #6236  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2015, 7:51 PM
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I think the point he's trying to make is even if the pope visit is a big deal, at that event the pope is the star, Philly is just a backdrop. A political convention provides more provides much more an opportunity for Philadelphia itself to shine.

For what it's worth I have no idea where the pope went the last time this event took place. I can however easily recall the DNC was in Charlotte last year and the RNC was in Tampa.
I think both (granted the DNC happens) will attract a great deal of attention, but on several spectrums.

Nation wide coverage would be great for the DNC, so long as it displays aerial views of center city. It would be great if the major media networks were to showcase some of the more attractive aspects of Philadelphia, like Fairmount Park's Please Touch museum, but what are the chances?

I can imagine that efforts to clean up some back alleys and abandoned lots may be in order for both events, and volunteers will come out of the wood work. In any case, we should be prepared for all that is possible.

So far, It looks like the majority of media coverage will happen within the convention center. Hopefully, discussion will bring all of these aspects to the table.
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  #6237  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2015, 1:20 PM
skyscraper skyscraper is offline
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I think both (granted the DNC happens) will attract a great deal of attention, but on several spectrums.

Nation wide coverage would be great for the DNC, so long as it displays aerial views of center city. It would be great if the major media networks were to showcase some of the more attractive aspects of Philadelphia, like Fairmount Park's Please Touch museum, but what are the chances?

I can imagine that efforts to clean up some back alleys and abandoned lots may be in order for both events, and volunteers will come out of the wood work. In any case, we should be prepared for all that is possible.

So far, It looks like the majority of media coverage will happen within the convention center. Hopefully, discussion will bring all of these aspects to the table.


This being the DNC, there will be the inevitable news features on urban blight, with backdrops of collapsing row houses with drug dealers in them, prostitution, gang violence, etc. The usual stuff.
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  #6238  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2015, 1:38 PM
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This being the DNC, there will be the inevitable news features on urban blight, with backdrops of collapsing row houses with drug dealers in them, prostitution, gang violence, etc. The usual stuff.
Ugh...I didn't think about that. But probably right. There will be plenty of this in conjunction with stories about the need to reduce income inequality. Sure to be paired with features that place Philly in a positive light and that show its progress and growth...
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  #6239  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2015, 2:43 PM
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This being the DNC, there will be the inevitable news features on urban blight, with backdrops of collapsing row houses with drug dealers in them, prostitution, gang violence, etc. The usual stuff.
Not to get into too much political history and strategy here, but that's really a dated view of the Democratic Party and it's imagery in terms of national branding. Today, it's all about growing and protecting the "middle class," even for party "firebrands" like Elizabeth Warren. And we are, after all, talking about the Clintons (most likely). Not to mention that the national conventions are directed at national general election branding, marketing, and vote-getting, as opposed to base voters in the primaries.

I don't know what you've been watching, but I haven't seen any "urban blight" imagery associated with Democratic conventions I've been watching over the past several decades, including ones in places like NYC and Boston. If they even do touch on urban issues, it's usually the success stories (e.g., urban gardens and agriculture, Mural Arts Program, etc.). In case you haven't noticed, this ain't the Democratic Party of Bobby Kennedy and George McGovern, or of LBJ's Great Society.

But again, don't mean to get into a political discussion--just a fact-based analysis of the PR and media coverage of the conventions.

Last edited by Philly Fan; Jan 19, 2015 at 2:56 PM.
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  #6240  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2015, 3:37 PM
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Not to get into too much political history and strategy here, but that's really a dated view of the Democratic Party and it's imagery in terms of national branding. Today, it's all about growing and protecting the "middle class," even for party "firebrands" like Elizabeth Warren. And we are, after all, talking about the Clintons (most likely). Not to mention that the national conventions are directed at national general election branding, marketing, and vote-getting, as opposed to base voters in the primaries.

I don't know what you've been watching, but I haven't seen any "urban blight" imagery associated with Democratic conventions I've been watching over the past several decades, including ones in places like NYC and Boston. If they even do touch on urban issues, it's usually the success stories (e.g., urban gardens and agriculture, Mural Arts Program, etc.). In case you haven't noticed, this ain't the Democratic Party of Bobby Kennedy and George McGovern, or of LBJ's Great Society.

But again, don't mean to get into a political discussion--just a fact-based analysis of the PR and media coverage of the conventions.
Hope that is right. I was trying to google search for "urban blight" features in connection with the last DNC and didn't really see anything. So that's a good sign .
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