PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

She loved the Market East plan, generally liked the Ritz Residences, really liked Comcast I. Plenty of other projects in this city that she's liked. Not trying to make this a campaign to defend Inga, but she usually does a pretty good job of calling crap just that. In my view. Whether there are realistic alternatives and what the end game should be is a different issue and room for debate. And it's going to vary depending on the situation and the proposal. But I am glad that she calls out crap for the crap that it is. It pushes people to design better buildings and I do believe developers and other people in positions of power with respect to development pay attention. With respect to the current plan, even if the tower she advocates for is unrealistic, some improvements to this are not.

well if you find her opinions to be reasonable than we can say that the overwhelming majority of recent major projects must fall into the crap category. There are a few architects she favors and if they propose something she tends to get behind it- but she has harsh feelings towards most of the firms that get a decent number of projects in this city. Same with developers, much of what she says is colored by who is doing the development. Another way she is misguided is that she often claims Philly is such a hot market that the city government (she rarely blames neighborhood groups or other parties who can slow or stop a development) should feel free to make life a bit more difficult for developers so that we can get nearly perfect buildings. She's also argued on many occasions that an underused site or parking lot is better than a building that doesn't completely blow her away from a design perspective. The logic is so twisted that it's hard to take seriously. She actually argues that a parking lot is preferable to a buidling (even with ground floor activity) that dosnt meet her standards.

[miesian]

There are lots of vacant lots where the project would look good, not behind the superb Rodin Museum.....I have to agree with Inga on this.

[EastSideHBG]

Grand plans for riverfront hotels, wedding halls in Fishtown
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...lls_in_Fishtown.html#LogjSAdXp5WLl52A.99

[MusicMan84]

New college house at Penn:

by Music_Man84, on Flickr

by Music_Man84, on Flickr

by Music_Man84, on Flickr

by Music_Man84, on Flickr

Future Study Hotel at 33rd/Chestnut - current building has the fence up with a demo notice on the door.

by Music_Man84, on Flickr

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

There may be things in this world, even in this city, that she actually likes. I wonder why she doesn't write about them.
I'm not saying I especially like this project, I just get tired of her whining and moaning.

I get tired of people whining about her whining and moaning.

She is mostly a critic of urbanism, not architecture, and in that regard, she is a great voice.

Without voices like hers, most projects in this city would probably end up looking like Symphony House...because that is the default setting for tacky old megalomaniac developers who think everyone wants to live in faux-Versailles, just like they do wherever they ensconce themselves in the suburbs.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 1487

Design is subjective- which is why its pretty absurd for a critic to demand that the city stop any project she doesnt like. Shocking as it may seem, some folks may not like the projects she is enomored with and others may disagree that the (many) projects she claims will spell the end of Philadelphia as we know it should be stopped. Saying the City should be in the business of approving every detail of every major project such that they meet a very narrow subjective design standard is ridiculous. If they only approved what she loves very little would get built. She pans 90% of the new or proposed buildings she reviews.

Design is subjective.

But quality is not.

Whether you like a design or not, it's easy to call a spade a spade and understand when a developer is going to cheap on materials and details based on their proposal and track record alone.

This is what she's doing here.

For example, Blatstein can propose anything he wants, but 90% of us will understand that no matter how good it looks in the rendering, at the end of the day he'll cut corners and cost-engineer the hell out of a building until it looks like it cost $7 in front of you.

So yes, she's right to call a spade a spade here. This will look like crap.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I get tired of people whining about her whining and moaning.

She is mostly a critic of urbanism, not architecture, and in that regard, she is a great voice.

Without voices like hers, most projects in this city would probably end up looking like Symphony House...because that is the default setting for tacky old megalomaniac developers who think everyone wants to live in faux-Versailles, just like they do wherever they ensconce themselves in the suburbs.

I am an architect, and not one time have I or any of my colleagues or clients that I am aware of asked of ourselves, WWIL? (what would Inga like?)
She is a joke, and no design or construction decision makers take her seriously. Most have no idea who she is. That is the only reason I don't get that upset by her, because she really has very little impact among those who have the power to do what she proposes. I seriously doubt that there has ever been a major project that was altered in any way because of any criticism she has heaped on it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

well if you find her opinions to be reasonable than we can say that the overwhelming majority of recent major projects must fall into the crap category. There are a few architects she favors and if they propose something she tends to get behind it- but she has harsh feelings towards most of the firms that get a decent number of projects in this city. Same with developers, much of what she says is colored by who is doing the development. Another way she is misguided is that she often claims Philly is such a hot market that the city government (she rarely blames neighborhood groups or other parties who can slow or stop a development) should feel free to make life a bit more difficult for developers so that we can get nearly perfect buildings. She's also argued on many occasions that an underused site or parking lot is better than a building that doesn't completely blow her away from a design perspective. The logic is so twisted that it's hard to take seriously. She actually argues that a parking lot is preferable to a buidling (even with ground floor activity) that dosnt meet her standards.

I think you are somewhat missing the point that it's her job to be hypercritical. It's not her job to propose realistic alternatives. She is not the architect or developer. Her job is to point out problems and get people talking and working to address poor and ill-fitting building designs. I am not an architect so I can't say how effective she is. I would not think people actually alter construction proposals based on her critique; however, that does not mean there is no impact. But as I said, I am not defending Inga's body of work or global positions (which are case-specific and vary in being ill-advised depending on the situation). I will agree with her critique of this building as crap. And there are realistic alternatives even if not the luxury tower Inga may favor. Let's move on.

[iheartphilly]

Fair enough. We, behind our desk and computer monitor, can provide our unprofessional and amateur opinion and arrive at the same conclusion. More importantly, if we are hunting for an apartment to dwell in, we can vote on it by letting our checkbook do the talking. LOL.

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by McBane

I think GarCastle has insight into the new Penn hospital building. He can say (and he probably already has and I just missed it) how tall it will be expected to be.

The demolition is still slated to start around Labor Day. I was walking through the garage with the large pack that gets off the train and two ladies were saying the gate was going to be closed off the first week in March (station side) - email their department got. So not sure if they are just gating off one entrance to start the weeding out process of regular parkers or if they are going to take down the garage much earlier than the tower. I had heard the garage would come down first, but it was like 4th person so I can't say it for sure. Most of the top tower floor is empty but there are still a couple groups up there and they seemed to fix the heat up there. They also just repainted the Bridge level (which obviously doesn't cost much but still an interesting choice).

Another employee told me that all the Bridge level conference meetings will be relocated starting in a matter of weeks. The same person mentioned the bridge across Civic Center Boulevard would be retained in place. So maybe they are going to build some sort of temp bridge between the HUP bridge and the Perelman bridge during the demo so people can still walk through? I know the VP of real estate said it is a bitch to get permits for bridges so they may want to keep the one they have and avoid some of that until it's time to build the final new bridges. /shrug

The model I posted pictures of awhile back showed a really boxed off structure with two towers and a 6-8 level massive base to the whole thing - which apparently was not parking since that would be underground. The towers might have just been for massing purposes, there was not much detail to the model.

An internal communication stated the new hospital would take 7-8 years due to being built in phases. No details on how many phases, S.F., floors, etc. :^(

$1.5 Billion is still promising though. They keep talking about what would be my new building on the far (cemetery) side of CHOP's research tower and ambulatory complex. Apparently the CHOP ambulatory building has had issues which are causing delays.

Cheers,
G.

[GarCastle]

Also, while Jefferson health system is focusing on Abington Memorial, Penn is focusing next on Lancaster (and some other outreaches). Pretty soon Philly will have a set of healthcare empires LOL.

Cheers,
G.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I would not think people actually alter construction proposals based on her critique; however, that does not mean there is no impact.

Totally agree. How's this for an impact? Reading Inga's articles in the Inquirer as a child is what got me interested in architecture in the first place.

I feel a lot of people on this forum tend to forget that most people aren't on this forum. We are probably all in the top 1% of Philadelphia's population as far as caring about architecture and development is concerned. Not only do we frequent this forum, but most of us are likely reading countless blogs about architecture and development in Philadelphia. Because people tend to associate with others with similar interests we probably also discuss this stuff with friends and partners. In short: we are involved in this world far more than most, it seems many of here are even involved professionally.

Most people don't care as much about this stuff as we do. Hell, a lot of people don't care at all.

While to us, Inga is but one of many sources for the type of stuff she writes about, to many Philadelphians her articles in the inquirer are probably the only time they ever even think about architecture. Disagree with her or not, she is popular and she reaches people. She has likely done more than anyone in this city to make architecture a part of the regular discourse among our city residents.

She's a critic. That's what she does. Criticize. So I don't really understand why people have an issue with the fact that she never seems to like anything. Laban reviews like 500 restaurents and gives like 3 of them 4 bells. That's just the nature of newspaper criticism.

Her criticism is not always something I agree with. But I really don't understand the vitriol so many seem to have for her. She's always struck me as someone who's "on our team" and helps bring the things we're passionate about to the masses.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

"Penn Health System is planning to knock down its Penn Tower to make way for a new structure that will house 700 patient beds, 50 operating rooms and other health-care services."

It's got to be pretty tall..., well more so hoping, but still -- that's a whole lotta rooms.

To give you an idea, HUP's main hospital has a little over 700 beds and is comprised of many buildings. Penn Towers footprint is not nearly as large. Penn Tower has 21 floors, It was the Hilton Hotel before being bought by Penn, Floor heights are approx 10 ft, I would expect taller floors.

One question that has not been answered is whether the new development in place of Penn Tower will have a garage. If they do not include a garage the footprint expands significantly. They could also bury a garage, but its risky in a sense they experienced problems with going 3 levels down with PCAM's garage.

Also, I have not heard much about whether they have approval to relocate Convention Ave, which is the road that separates Penn Tower from Perelman and leads right into CHOP.

I am excited to hear Foster is in on this project, it should be world class.

Of course Driscoll is in as they have permanent offices in Penn Tower.

March 6th is the official closing date of Penn Tower's garage. The new Garage across from Lot 51, will be opened and have 1000 spaces available, another 500 spaces will open in a couple weeks to complete the 1500 space garage.

There is preliminary work being done on the new bridge connecting HUP to Perelman. They had the Bridge closed off last night and it will be closed again tonight. There is holes being dug out in front of Perelman where they want the new bridge to extend into.

Garcastle: The last word I got in regards to demolition of the actual building was February/March 2016, now I am wondering if they start Labor day if thats the expected finish date? Is 6 months sufficient? The garage is expected to start sooner.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

I am an architect...

What have you designed?

[wcphil]

Was just thinking how awesome our skyline will look during all the coverage during the Pope's visit in the fall. I imagine both FMC and citc will be very noticeable by then, as well as a few others that should be rising up by then. Talk about a free advertising that Philly is rising...

[brenster]

Originally Posted by wcphil

Was just thinking how awesome our skyline will look during all the coverage during the Pope's visit in the fall. I imagine both FMC and citc will be very noticeable by then, as well as a few others that should be rising up by then. Talk about a free advertising that Philly is rising...

I don't think ctic will be noticeable, maybe 15 stories up by then. Fmc should, because there is not a lot around it. I would figure that to be around 25 stories by then.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by brenster

I don't think ctic will be noticeable, maybe 15 stories up by then. Fmc should, because there is not a lot around it. I would figure that to be around 25 stories by then.

Probably agree. It would have been great to have significant progress on SLS and the W. But they are so slow getting going that it is not to be. Still, knock wood, the W, SLS, and One Riverside will hopefully have all broken ground by then. Showcasing some great residential/hotels to be (eventually).

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

To give you an idea, HUP's main hospital has a little over 700 beds and is comprised of many buildings. Penn Towers footprint is not nearly as large. ...
Garcastle: The last word I got in regards to demolition of the actual building was February/March 2016, now I am wondering if they start Labor day if thats the expected finish date? Is 6 months sufficient? The garage is expected to start sooner.

If Penn still owes 1,000 parking spaces (due to Civic Center removal, per VP of real estate), and Penn Tower Garage has somewhere around that as well, then the new 1,500 spot garage would still necessitate a good amount of parking in the HUP 2.0. Per the CMIO the parking will be underground though as you pointed out the water table is high in that area (I saw standing lakes in front of the new garage parcel that were not that far down). I specifically asked him if the large base would be parking, that's when he said it would be underground like Perelman.

I believe CHOP was being a little baby (pun intended) about moving the road so the model had the road remaining but Penn could still be pursuing the road move for all I know.

If they are going to recycle/reuse as much as they can from the tower and garage, then I could see it taking awhile. The tower is skinny as hell. When you look at the whole plot though including the garage, the pop-out where Potbelly's is, and the lawn, it's a good amount of space. If they go for maximum space and use the Perelman driveway as the "entrance", then they could easily replace HUP. Remember there is a good amount of space wasted in HUP in-between the buildings. IF 2.0 becomes a solid building built in phases, it could be enormous and I honestly do believe they are sick of running out of space and having departments scattered all over. Sure the non-clinical building will help absorb the corporate departments from 3001 and 3101, perhaps even 3930, but there's still 3535, 3600, etc. I'd hope they move all those offices to more central locations - but you never know what stupidness might enter the equation LOL.

When we see Potbelly's close, we know they aren't screwing around any longer. :^) The logistics of it all must be insane. Even just closing Potbelly's and the small food place inside the lobby level is a bitch for employees. Not to mention lost revenue if they kick them out too early. Hopefully they will build a good amount of space for food joints and/or a space for food trucks galore besides sidewalks.

Hopefully we'll see some actual designs soon.

Cheers,
G.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Grand plans for riverfront hotels, wedding halls in Fishtown
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...lls_in_Fishtown.html#LogjSAdXp5WLl52A.99

Is that the former Philadelphia Electric power plant right next to Penn Treaty Park, or is there another such power plant in Fishtown?

[ImaTeleUSomthing]

Originally Posted by wcphil

Was just thinking how awesome our skyline will look during all the coverage during the Pope's visit in the fall. I imagine both FMC and citc will be very noticeable by then, as well as a few others that should be rising up by then. Talk about a free advertising that Philly is rising...

If not the amount of skyscraper cranes visible during the Pope's visit. Just the site of such cranes will provide enough details.
Business will flock to Philadelphia, and god knows we need it.