Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[eemy]

I don't see why I can't just go underground.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This just in, heard from my contact at the RIO that apparently Jawbreaker, the roadheader assigned to the western portal, is being relocated to the eastern portal tomorrow morning. The machine will be police escorted and there will be some traffic & bus disruptions as it happens.

Any idea the time or route?

[Richard Eade]

Time: between 07:00 - 12:00 Saturday morning, Jan. 17, 2015
Route: left onto Albert, right onto Bronson, left onto Slater, right onto Elgin, left onto Laurier, right onto SB temporary Transitway between Laurier and Waller, left into east portal.

The use of that short stretch of Transitway (the temporary part borrowed from Nicholas) is so the roadheader can enter the east portal area pretty much in line with the portal ramp.

There will be a police escort.

[J.OT13]

Do we know why the City modified the route? seems the new alignment might be more expensive.

[rocketphish]

Ottawa needs compromise — not NIMBYism — to make LRT work

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 16, 2015, Last Updated: January 16, 2015 5:41 PM EST

The First Unitarian Congregation of Ottawa really put the NIMBY in NIMBYism this week when it announced it is opposing the city’s preferred western light-rail route and wants the planned station for the corner of Cleary Avenue and Richmond Road in Westboro.

But the church would still like a station close enough for its members to walk to. Just not, you know, in its own backyard.

Wow.

This is the latest salvo in what has become the most controversial section of Phase 2 of LRT, a far-reaching $3-billion plan to extend rail east, west, south and to Algonquin College. Of the 35 kilometres of track the city wants to lay between 2018 and 2023, none has caused as many headaches as those needed to connect Dominion to Lincoln Fields station.

That’s to be expected. Getting a train through that part of town involves travelling through National Capital Commission land and the built-up neighbourhood of Westboro. That property owners are concerned about exactly where and how the train is routed is completely understandable.

And the Unitarian Congregation has some very valid concerns. The latest route — over which the city is still arguing with the NCC — would have light-rail trains running three or four metres below the church’s property, under what is now surface parking. The church has publicly stated that this is “unacceptable.”

As first reported by the Citizen’s Matthew Pearson, the church worries about the disruption that would be caused by as much as two years of construction not just for congregation members, but for those in the seniors residence and in the daycare, both of which are located on the Unitarian Congregation’s property. And the church would lose its parking spaces during the construction.

Furthermore, it’s possible the church won’t be able to develop its property directly over the light rail tunnel the way it might want. This is somewhat debatable as, according to city officials, they’d still be able to build a four-to-six-storey building, but they could forget about any plans to build underground parking.

These are completely legitimate concerns that the city must address, including compensating the Unitarian Congregation for any loss of value to their land.

But some of the Unitarians’ other complaints are hard to swallow.

There will be too much vibration? Perhaps during the construction that will be an issue, but shouldn’t be once the tunnel is completed as it doesn’t run under any of the existing buildings, including the daycare. Also, the train will be moving quite slowly — hence causing little vibration anyway — as it will have just left Cleary Station when it’s travelling under the church property.

The Cleary Station will lead to too much traffic and illegal parking from park-n-riders? This station is what’s known as a “slip station” as opposed to a major hub such as Tunney’s Pasture or Lincoln Fields. It’s meant to serve the local neighbourhoods and is unlikely to be a major drop-off centre. Illegal parking can be dissuaded through that old standby, parking tickets. As for the area becoming busier, well, that’s too bad. More people is what we want from intensification, and more people taking transit is what we want in a sustainable society.

Building this light-rail system — which most people claim they want — isn’t easy. It’s going to be disruptive and it’s going to be expensive. Very expensive. The federal government hasn’t even come close to saying it’s on board with chipping in the one-third, or $1 billion, of the costs the city wants it to. And every time a group, whether it’s the NCC or the Unitarian Congregation or a well-meaning community member, suggests rerouting the train under another field or street, it adds hundreds of millions of dollars to the cost.

That doesn’t mean the city’s preferred route is the one we’re going to end up with. The city and the NCC were having a pretty public spat about running the train above ground a mere 500 metres along the south side of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway. So discussions over the western LRT route are nowhere near finished.

But the light-rail system doesn’t just need money — it needs support from us, and a willingness to compromise. Few transit systems are perfect, and our LRT won’t be either, whether it’s a station that should have been here rather than there, or trees saved along the parkway versus trees on the Byron linear park. It will not be possible to please everyone.

And if progressive folks such as those at Unitarian Congregation talk down having light rail in their backyard, then what hope do we have of getting this thing built?

[email protected]
twitter.com/jchianello

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/0117-col-chianello

[rocketphish]

Businesses join opposition to city's preferred western LRT route

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 16, 2015, Last Updated: January 16, 2015 5:42 PM EST

Richmond Road business owners fear their properties could be expropriated as part of light rail construction, but say the city is keeping them in the dark.

The latest alignment for the proposed western extension of light rail shows the underground line west of Cleary Avenue curving south to meet Richmond, beneath where a restaurant and auto service shop stand now.

“If the site was expropriated, the restaurant would be history,” said Walter Boyce, who’s owned Kristy’s Family Restaurant since 1989.

Boyce said he’s concerned that expropriation could not only mean a loss of his current business, but also of future development potential for the property.

“That’s significant value. Offers come pretty regularly for the site,” he said, declining to disclose the value of the property, which is less than a hectare.

Boyce said he’s had no discussions with the city about what expropriation might look like. His son attended one meeting with a city official in late 2013, but they’ve been provided little information since and no formal or informal negotiations have occurred, he said.

Same goes for Dave Rennie, who operates a garage of the same name next door.

The city’s manager of transportation planning, Vivi Chi, responded to the concerns in a statement.

“If any property is needed, the value of land would be appraised and settlement would be negotiated, as per normal procedures,” the statement said.

News of the added discomfort with the city’s plan came a day after the First Unitarian Congregation of Ottawa voiced opposition to the preferred route.

The congregation, which owns land adjacent to the proposed Cleary station, is worried about traffic congestion, loss of parking and the effect of ongoing noise and vibrations from operating trains on a seniors’ home and daycare on the 2.4-hectare campus.

Rennie said he’s also “not too fussy” about the city’s preferred route, which would run trains along 1.2 kilometres of NCC-owned land on the south side of the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway between Dominion station and the proposed Cleary station.

He said he’d like a previously dismissed option that would see a tunnel built below the Byron Linear Park, which runs parallel to and south of Richmond, to be reconsidered.

So would Charles Davies. The retired military logistics officer on Friday released his own independent study that calls for the city to tunnel under NCC-owned Rochester Field and city-owned Byron Park, but reduce the overall number of stations from three to two.

Dominion and New Orchard stations would be scrapped. So would Cleary, which, under the current plan, would be located adjacent to Davies’ condo building. Replacing them would be one station between Fraser and Westminster and another between Woodroffe and Ancaster.

Davies said the city “prematurely” focused on a single option for the route between Dominion and Lincoln Fields, despite not reaching an agreement with the NCC to use the parkway.

“My main point is they need to have a Plan B,” he said.

The NCC’s parkway lands include two to three hectares of healthy mixed forest, compared to the sparser vegetation of Byron Park, where fast-growing tree species were planted in the early 1980s, Davies said.

And having stations located south of Richmond will reach more potential riders. “If it’s more convenient to walk to the station, more people will walk to the station.”

The underground option along Richmond and Byron, via Rochester Field, was explored and ultimately rejected by the city. Its estimated cost in 2013 was $1.7 billion.

The Richmond Underground, by comparison, is pegged at $980 million.

Getting trains from Dominion station to Lincoln Fields has been a puzzle that has vexed city planners for years, Bay Coun. Mark Taylor said in an interview with CFRA.

“Every time you move something, make a change in one way that addresses a certain set of problems, it causes another wrinkle, so we just keep the iron out until they’re all smooth,” he said.

[email protected]
Twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...ion-to-citys-preferred-western-lrt-route

[eternallyme]

How much would the Carling via Churchill option cost? That serves Westboro and Tunney's Pasture, keeps the trains out of NIMBYville, and serves part of Carling including Carlingwood as well.

[Richard Eade]

More precisely, it sounds as if the roadheader will be on the move from 07:00 to 07:20 tomorrow morning (Sat. Jan. 17, 2015)

[ACmodels]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How much would the Carling via Churchill option cost? That serves Westboro and Tunney's Pasture, keeps the trains out of NIMBYville, and serves part of Carling including Carlingwood as well.

That's what I was thinking. These options should now be considered.









The only thing I'm worried about is other people/business would complain with these options.

[Kitchissippi]

and you think the NIMBYs on Churchill or Kirkwood are tamer? LOL.

What remains to be done on the Richmond corridor is minor tweaking compared to those routes.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

and you think the NIMBYs on Churchill or Kirkwood are tamer? LOL.

What remains to be done on the Richmond corridor is minor tweaking compared to those routes.

My thoughts exactly.

[J.OT13]

I'm reading the article, and every argument is bogus:

1. Traffic it's a subway station. Subway stations don't attract traffic, they alleviate it.

2. Noise/vibrations There are hundreds of subway systems around the world. As far as I know, I've never heard of anyone complaining about noise/vibrations around a system in operation. Sure there will be disruptions during construction, but it's certainly worth the short term issues.

3. Parking Again a temporary issue.

4. Asset loss I think the "housing for adults with mental health issues" might just be crap pulled out of their asses to win community support. In either case, the property value will skyrocket after the O-Train (2022) opens. They could even work with the City to build the station in the basement of a new building, which of course would require a slight realignment of the plan.

[eemy]

You definitely notice the noise of the subway when you're walking above it in Toronto, though I've never really paid attention to or noticed vibrations - I think there may be some. That said, I think this is typically between stations when the trains are going faster; I've never really noticed this around Union Station, for example.

I could see how this could be an issue if they were to build residential spaces above the line, though the massive increase in property value would probably give them other options and greater flexibility.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

You definitely notice the noise of the subway when you're walking above it in Toronto, though I've never really paid attention to or noticed vibrations - I think there may be some. That said, I think this is typically between stations when the trains are going faster; I've never really noticed this around Union Station, for example.

I could see how this could be an issue if they were to build residential spaces above the line, though the massive increase in property value would probably give them other options and greater flexibility.

So considering the trains will be going at slower speeds as they get in and out of Cleary station, it should not be as much of an issue. Plus, our trains will be smaller, shorter and lighter than TO's full sized rolling stock. If these factors don't virtually eliminate their concerns, they should at least alleviate them greatly.

As for building over it, the City claims they could still build 4-6 stories, but no underground garage, naturally. That said, it would still make for a good development; tall towers on the northern edge of the property and lower buildings on the south closer to established areas.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Yeah, I am pretty sure that there is a limit on how far below ground they can claim as theirs. Im pretty sure they can claim as far down as their lowest utility which is not as far down as the LRT would be, so these clown should probably get off their high horse.

It actually sounds like an opportunity for me: take advantage of the LRT construction to build a podium for a future building on top of the underground station.

What the hell is it with the near west end, anyway? If you morons don't want LRT in your back yard, I'll take it, since my part of town is never going to get it at this rate. You keep your buses, I'll take your trains, and you can stop your NIMBY (or NUMBY) whinging.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm reading the article, and every argument is bogus:

1. Traffic it's a subway station. Subway stations don't attract traffic, they alleviate it.

2. Noise/vibrations There are hundreds of subway systems around the world. As far as I know, I've never heard of anyone complaining about noise/vibrations around a system in operation. Sure there will be disruptions during construction, but it's certainly worth the short term issues.

In this brave new modern era, in which people complain (a) of spurious "electro-magnetic sensitivity" emanating from (b) radio towers which aren't even operational, there totally will be people complaining about "vibrations".

In fact, they were complaining about "vibrations" downtown before the roadheaders had eaten into so much as 1 cm of shale.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm reading the article, and every argument is bogus:

1. Traffic it's a subway station. Subway stations don't attract traffic, they alleviate it.

2. Noise/vibrations There are hundreds of subway systems around the world. As far as I know, I've never heard of anyone complaining about noise/vibrations around a system in operation. Sure there will be disruptions during construction, but it's certainly worth the short term issues.

3. Parking Again a temporary issue.

4. Asset loss I think the "housing for adults with mental health issues" might just be crap pulled out of their asses to win community support. In either case, the property value will skyrocket after the O-Train (2022) opens. They could even work with the City to build the station in the basement of a new building, which of course would require a slight realignment of the plan.

Actually, people tend to drop off and pick up people at subway stations. If they don't have kiss n rides in the station plans already, they should add them. Otherwise, people will just stuff up the neighbouring streets instead, even if it is a minor station.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Actually, people tend to drop off and pick up people at subway stations. If they don't have kiss n rides in the station plans already, they should add them. Otherwise, people will just stuff up the neighbouring streets instead, even if it is a minor station.

So, in other words, people will use the station and use the streets?

Isn't that the whole point of stations and streets?

Am I missing something?

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

2. Noise/vibrations There are hundreds of subway systems around the world. As far as I know, I've never heard of anyone complaining about noise/vibrations around a system in operation. Sure there will be disruptions during construction, but it's certainly worth the short term issues.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. In Toronto, the TTC has been dealing with a fairly contentious group of citizens primarily around Mountainview Avenue (just west of Keele Street) because of noise and vibration from the Bloor-Danforth Subway line. So much so, that the TTC will be doubling its rail grinding grinding program starting this year, and has committed to look at longer dampening solutions to appease local residents.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

So, in other words, people will use the station and use the streets?

Isn't that the whole point of stations and streets?

Am I missing something?

Nope. I think we're on the same page regarding this. Even minor stations will attract car traffic.