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  #6181  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 2:44 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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I think GarCastle has insight into the new Penn hospital building. He can say (and he probably already has and I just missed it) how tall it will be expected to be.
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  #6182  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:23 PM
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The shadow is super harsh in the morning, but here's what's up at that plot on the waterfront getting developed whose name I always forget. If the refurbished PATCO cars ever come into service, their windows will hopefully be cleaner to take pictures through.

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  #6183  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:26 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by josef View Post
The shadow is super harsh in the morning, but here's what's up at that plot on the waterfront getting developed whose name I always forget. If the refurbished PATCO cars ever come into service, their windows will hopefully be cleaner to take pictures through.

I think its called 1 Water Street or something similar. Glad this eyesore lot will disappear.
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  #6184  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Rodin development...

http://mobile.philly.com/columnists/?wss=/philly/columnists/inga_saffron/&id=288706591

Ugh...Inga is right on this one. I hope they can figure out something more appropriate. There is still time. Even if the present design moves forward, the actual building hopefully will not look as bad as the render.
I dont think anything proposed there will satisfy her honestly.
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  #6185  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:33 PM
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Philly-Drew Philly-Drew is offline
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
The article says this: "The health system has also selected the architectural firm Foster + Partners to design what will be an estimated $1.5 million project."

What does the author mean by $1.5 million dollar project? Is that the design cost?

Oh, and Josef, great picture there, especially considering you were on a moving train when you took it!
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  #6186  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
The article says this: "The health system has also selected the architectural firm Foster + Partners to design what will be an estimated $1.5 million project."

What does the author mean by $1.5 million dollar project? Is that the design cost?
It's a typo. In the past, this has been identified as a $1.5 BILLION project:

Quote:
The University of Pennsylvania Health System is moving forward with the construction of a new hospital tower that would cost an estimated $1.5 billion and be built in phases over several years, sources say.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...-moving-closer-to-building.html?page=all
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  #6187  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 3:47 PM
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Cro Burnham Cro Burnham is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
The article says this: "The health system has also selected the architectural firm Foster + Partners to design what will be an estimated $1.5 million project."

What does the author mean by $1.5 million dollar project? Is that the design cost?

Oh, and Josef, great picture there, especially considering you were on a moving train when you took it!
I think it meant to say $1.5 billion. Foster probably charges $1.5 million just to switch on AutoCAD.
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  #6188  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly-Drew View Post
Oh, and Josef, great picture there, especially considering you were on a moving train when you took it!
Thanks!
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  #6189  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 4:56 PM
tsarstruck tsarstruck is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Rodin development...

http://mobile.philly.com/columnists/?wss=/philly/columnists/inga_saffron/&id=288706591

Ugh...Inga is right on this one. I hope they can figure out something more appropriate. There is still time. Even if the present design moves forward, the actual building hopefully will not look as bad as the render.
She may be right that the design isn't great, but she's 100% wrong that the city should somehow oppose its development.
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  #6190  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 5:35 PM
mja mja is offline
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
I dont think anything proposed there will satisfy her honestly.
She actually proposes a slim luxury-condo tower on the corner in the column.
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  #6191  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tsarstruck View Post
She may be right that the design isn't great, but she's 100% wrong that the city should somehow oppose its development.
She isn't opposing development, or arguing that the city should. She's opining that the city should leverage the needed zoning changes to demand a better design.
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  #6192  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 5:42 PM
skyscraper skyscraper is offline
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Originally Posted by tsarstruck View Post
She may be right that the design isn't great, but she's 100% wrong that the city should somehow oppose its development.
There may be things in this world, even in this city, that she actually likes. I wonder why she doesn't write about them.
I'm not saying I especially like this project, I just get tired of her whining and moaning.
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  #6193  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 5:44 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by josef View Post
The shadow is super harsh in the morning, but here's what's up at that plot on the waterfront getting developed whose name I always forget. If the refurbished PATCO cars ever come into service, their windows will hopefully be cleaner to take pictures through.

The project is titled "One Water Street." Link to the thread is below:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=211345
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  #6194  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
She isn't opposing development, or arguing that the city should. She's opining that the city should leverage the needed zoning changes to demand a better design.
While I agree with her suggestion that a tall slender tower would be better, she is being too simplistic about an assumed City power to do anything about it.

Everyone is held hostage to a political/legal process that gives too much power to community groups to stall development.

Inga is pretending that City bodies can enforce a better design that will almost certainly be opposed by neighborhood groups who have a knee-jerk fear of tall buildings, regardless of slenderness. This places the developer in an impossible situation:

- either create a responsible design to win city approval but then be stalled interminably by community legal challenges, or

- create a bland squat design that will assuage neighborhood groups' imaginary fears of Manhattanization, blocked view corridors, and shadows, but will get shot down by City agencies.

The developer then has no options except maybe to build a 3-story tickytacky townhouse development, which is unfeasible on many levels in a site like this.

The problem isn't the developer. The problem is that City agencies, like Inga, talk out of both sides of their mouths. They advocate for responsible design but are not willing to challenge or limit the power of neighborhood groups to impose their irrational fears on development that severely hamstring responsible design.

The fact that there is even a debate about this design is ridiculous. The developer's options should have been made perfectly clear long ago. The City has had 100 years to come up with a clear, viable, responsible comprehensive planning strategy for the Parkway and has failed to do so, essentially deliberately, because in politics clarity is the enemy. It removes the necessity for backroom dealing and the give-and-take horse-trading that give politicians their raison d'etre.

So Inga is deliberately missing the forest for the trees here, and what she is suggesting simply can't work. She's saying the City must force the developer to go back to the drawing board to come up with a design that will surely be shot down by the neighborhoods. Ridiculous. Ensures no development will take place.

No, the City must impose some limits on neighborhood group power to inform development. No way the City will do that.

So we are stuck two choices:

1) Inga's approach, which will result in no development (or a shitty minimal mctownhouse complex), or

2) The current approach, which results in squat mid-rises with huge footprints that are palatable enough to neighborhood groups in exchange for a few goodies of one type or another.

Much as it would be nice if the City laid down the law to the neighborhood groups, I know it will never happen. So I prefer option two to option one.
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  #6195  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 6:22 PM
BenKatzPhillytoParis BenKatzPhillytoParis is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
No one made a stink when the new family court building design was unveiled even though it sits next to such icons like Love Park and City Hall. And that building is definitely much worse. I think this Rodin tower design is pretty decent and don't mind its contrasting design next to the Rodin. It's certainly much nicer than other projects that were allowed to go ahead without raising eyebrows. If the city is suddenly going to start vetting projects seriously, then bravo - but I don't this building deserves such scrutiny.
1) Love Park may be iconic but it certainly isn't spoiled by a building that is certainly bland but a step above the municipal services building, 1515 arch, and penn center which are also adjacent to it and have almost identical massing.

2) the structure of city hall is at least 300 feet away from the family court building

3) there's no where else in the city that has the feel of the grounds of the Rodin. The atmosphere of its exterior I would argue is equally important and beautiful as its collection, and stamping this mediocre backdrop to it just reeks of a city that doesn't have its priorities straight. For me it conjures up the experience of a tourist going to some historical jewel in China that got surrounded by ugly impersonal high rises because modernity got conflated with anything goes development. Just not world class development. A good moment for council to do something useful and say no to spot zoning.
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  #6196  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 6:40 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by tsarstruck View Post
She may be right that the design isn't great, but she's 100% wrong that the city should somehow oppose its development.
Yes, if that was her actual position. But it's not.
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  #6197  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 6:44 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
No one made a stink when the new family court building design was unveiled even though it sits next to such icons like Love Park and City Hall. And that building is definitely much worse. I think this Rodin tower design is pretty decent and don't mind its contrasting design next to the Rodin. It's certainly much nicer than other projects that were allowed to go ahead without raising eyebrows. If the city is suddenly going to start vetting projects seriously, then bravo - but I don't this building deserves such scrutiny.
Disagree that new family court building design is 'much worse.' But that's a matter of opinion. ABSOLUTELY disagree that it compromises the surrounding area in the way that this proposal would. The family court building is meh. It doesn't really detract from Dilworth, City Hall, or Love Park. This would completely overshadow an architectural marvel (Rodin) and compromise the aesthetic of the Parkway. I'd like to see something there but hope this does not get built as is.
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  #6198  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
There may be things in this world, even in this city, that she actually likes. I wonder why she doesn't write about them.
I'm not saying I especially like this project, I just get tired of her whining and moaning.
She loved the Market East plan, generally liked the Ritz Residences, really liked Comcast I. Plenty of other projects in this city that she's liked. Not trying to make this a campaign to defend Inga, but she usually does a pretty good job of calling crap just that. In my view. Whether there are realistic alternatives and what the end game should be is a different issue and room for debate. And it's going to vary depending on the situation and the proposal. But I am glad that she calls out crap for the crap that it is. It pushes people to design better buildings and I do believe developers and other people in positions of power with respect to development pay attention. With respect to the current plan, even if the tower she advocates for is unrealistic, some improvements to this are not.
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  #6199  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 7:58 PM
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Jawnadelphia Jawnadelphia is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
I think GarCastle has insight into the new Penn hospital building. He can say (and he probably already has and I just missed it) how tall it will be expected to be.
"Penn Health System is planning to knock down its Penn Tower to make way for a new structure that will house 700 patient beds, 50 operating rooms and other health-care services."

It's got to be pretty tall..., well more so hoping, but still -- that's a whole lotta rooms.
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  #6200  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 7:59 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
She isn't opposing development, or arguing that the city should. She's opining that the city should leverage the needed zoning changes to demand a better design.
Design is subjective- which is why its pretty absurd for a critic to demand that the city stop any project she doesnt like. Shocking as it may seem, some folks may not like the projects she is enomored with and others may disagree that the (many) projects she claims will spell the end of Philadelphia as we know it should be stopped. Saying the City should be in the business of approving every detail of every major project such that they meet a very narrow subjective design standard is ridiculous. If they only approved what she loves very little would get built. She pans 90% of the new or proposed buildings she reviews.
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