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  #6661  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 2:02 AM
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I'm completely lost how razing the Sunset would somehow make housing there affordable.

Buying up houses in the Sunset where the median price for a tiny house is just shy of a million gets you very close to the $20 million/acre absurdity that's fundamental to high prices in the central areas of the City. Anything that's not a high-rise will have that much more difficult of a time absorbing the land prices into the final sale or rental price, and as long as developers can sell housing that's priced for higher incomes, they will. Never mind that construction costs vastly increase once you go beyond 4 - 5 story wood frame and into concrete and steel for taller structures.

Plus, anything built new is hardly going to be cheap--Panoramic's construction costs are something like $400,000 a miniscule unit before developer profit. Even before developer profit, those kinds of prices would be unaffordable for just two people making the median household income and be too small for housing a family.

I don't know what the solution to SF's affordability is, honestly--short of paying non-union prisoners $1/hr for construction labor and have government gobble up the supply chain for building materials and still do it efficiently. If we built the 100,000 units we should have been building long ago today all of a sudden to make a dent in pricing as has oft been quoted, that would just reduce the developer profit to build that number of units.
     
     
  #6662  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 4:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakamesalad View Post
Most of the city looks like this:



Charming?

Hardly.

But it's the dirty secret that SFers don't want the outside world to know about- yes, the Victorians and cable cars and beautiful homes built upon steep hills is only a fraction of SF. Most is built as cookie cutter stucco low density housing.

I've outlined a very loose, unscientific map of what I mean- the enclosed red bordered area is comprised of this type of development:



If the entire city limits were built of the 3 and 4 story multi unit buildings that you designate as "human scale that SF is famed for," the city would easily have over 2 million people.

I say, re- built all the single story single family homes built in the western and souther parts of the city after WWII into a dense up to 8 story multi use district. That would put a huge dent in housing costs. And retain the "human scale."
Sorry to bring this topic up again, but this is an interesting reality that I never gave much thought about until now. In essence, this is something that applies to many major American cities(aside from LA, for the reason that will be presented soon).


The really urban part of SF has always been concentrated around its historical center at the NE corner. That's the SF most people know about and praise. However, there's this side of the city that is not as known but is significant because it makes up the majority. Despite that fact that some dense housing may exist here, this large part of the city is simply just miles of meandering single family homes like this.

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_City_of_Small_Homes:_Making_the_Mass_Surburban_City






Now, this isn't bad. In fact, it's was great back after WW II when California was growing rapidly and many wanted to live the fullest extent of the American Dream, which living in a single family home in a geographically scenic, mild weathered area. These homes are essentially a testament to the past of urban sprawl. This is where it began to gain ground outside the first suburbs in Long Island, and it's the best example because it's one of the few examples of dense sprawl. Beyond that, it represents California and Western culture, at least to me. When I was a kid and saw images of suburbs like this in pictures,ads,television shows, and movies, I thought this was the epitome of where Middle America should be.

San Francisco is the second most densely populated city in the country despite it and has done an infinitely better job at maintaining density this way than all the other cities in the Sunbelt. However, it can't be ignored that a limit has been reached. The model of development in the Sunset District can only be applied to the suburban areas of the Bay Area. Regardless of its beauty in comparison to other suburban areas in the country, it's a huge obstacle to the future growth of SF. Many houses will be landmarked, but development will have to continue as long as there is a demand.
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  #6663  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakamesalad View Post
You're all welcome to come to the meeting on Jan 21 and share your vision for highrises in the Balboa reservoir, but expect some hostility from the neighbors in Westwood and Sunnyside.

http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=3989
     
     
  #6664  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:11 PM
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jd3189 while I understand what you are trying to get at, you're not exactly being accurate. No most of the city does not look like that. And no the more "charming" and/or densely packed areas are not only a fraction of the city as you seem to believe. Even in your little outline you can see that's it about half of the city. Heck I can show you parts of New York City that are just as suburban looking, if not more so. The density of San Francisco's single-family suburbs is still high compared to most American cities. I think it's healthy for a city to have neighborhoods like this. And since no city is going to tout it's less interesting features you haven't uncovered some dirty little secret. So let's put that silly bit of aside and get to your real point.

San Francisco is not considered to be a "Sunbelt city" and the Sunset certainty can't claim to be! The Western Suburbs are located in the "fog belt" and so they've typically been a less desirable places to live. This along with a high level of home ownership has kept the area from re-developing into higher densities. Because of these two factors I do not foresee these neighborhoods radically changing anything soon. And there's no need right now. There's still large areas of the city that need to be re-developed first - like Hunters Point-Candlestick, Treasure Island, and closer-in neighborhoods that need more infill. Yeah we will see more, denser infill. We possibly will even see few high-rises. But I imagine, like most of the city, their location and size will be tightly controlled.
     
     
  #6665  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:19 PM
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Wait did I miss something? 706 Mission/Museum Tower got through all it's legal BS and actually breaking ground?
     
     
  #6666  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 7:42 PM
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1200 Van Ness Avenue

1 - I find the building to be quite interesting
2 - The set-back from Van Ness makes sense to me. It will mean a quieter environment for tenants & will not block views from the highrise north of it
3 - It has been the city policy to encourage highrise buildings on the Van Ness Corridor
4 - I'm glad to see the site developed as the building has been mostly empty for far too long.
5 - From what I read it will not be built all the way to Polk Street, but close

1200-Van-Ness-Rendering by Apollo's Light, on Flickr
Image is from SocketSite
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  #6667  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozone View Post
jd3189 while I understand what you are trying to get at, you're not exactly being accurate. No most of the city does not look like that. And no the more "charming" and/or densely packed areas are not only a fraction of the city as you seem to believe. Even in your little outline you can see that's it about half of the city. Heck I can show you parts of New York City that are just as suburban looking, if not more so. The density of San Francisco's single-family suburbs is still high compared to most American cities. I think it's healthy for a city to have neighborhoods like this. And since no city is going to tout it's less interesting features you haven't uncovered some dirty little secret. So let's put that silly bit of aside and get to your real point.

It may not be most, but much of SF is single family homes. They cover more ground than the traditional Victorian apartments and rowhomes. And I was going to mention NYC and other cities since the same realities exist in every US city, but thought it would be too much off topic. I'm not saying that SF's single family suburbs are bad. I like that they are extremely dense and offer a certain beauty that is not seen in other parts of the country. What I am saying is that after grand projects like Mission Bay are finished, where else can people live in SF? I'm not calling to destroy all of the Sunset District and build banal towers in its place. Like wakamesalad said before, this neighborhood could become more urban over time.

Essentially, my real point is that SF is mostly a lowrise city that is experiencing high demand. Despite this, it is still extremely dense. The densely packed areas do make up half the city, but that's still a continuation of the NE core. Even here, there is a high percentage of single family homes and rowhomes mixed in with apartments. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm against losing those areas since they make up SF's architectural legacy. However, it poses a huge obstacle as more people decide to move here.

Quote:
San Francisco is not considered to be a "Sunbelt city" and the Sunset certainty can't claim to be! The Western Suburbs are located in the "fog belt" and so they've typically been a less desirable places to live. This along with a high level of home ownership has kept the area from re-developing into higher densities. Because of these two factors I do not foresee these neighborhoods radically changing anything soon. And there's no need right now. There's still large areas of the city that need to be re-developed first - like Hunters Point-Candlestick, Treasure Island, and closer-in neighborhoods that need more infill. Yeah we will see more, denser infill. We possibly will even see few high-rises. But I imagine, like most of the city, their location and size will be tightly controlled.
Then what is San Francisco then? The Sunbelt doesn't necessarily equate to only the Southeast. Texas, California, and the other southwestern states also fit the definition. It isn't a bad word. I'm aware of the other projects around the city, but I wonder if it will satisfy the housing demand in time. If not, SF is probably going to become the Manhattan of the West if it isn't already. Not in the definition of having tall buildings, but in the fact that only the rich will be able to afford living there. If this happens, focus will have to be on the rest of the Bay Area to create dense housing/infill and good transportation to allow better access to SF.
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  #6668  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 8:47 PM
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jerry, check my post yesterday for a couple additional photos and comments. i'm glad the socketsite dude cleared it up (heh, i actually mailed him yesterday about it!).

everyone else - is it really necessary to post on this discussion of the density of the outer neighborhoods? this is a projects thread and you guys are way off topic. like, sunbelt? wtf are you even talking about at this point? your interjections bury real projects updates and deceive people into clicking on this thread looking for good projects info. maybe start a different thread?

also, those huge photos are super annoying for the side scroll/shrunken type to avoid sidescroll/photos disabled to read comments.
     
     
  #6669  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2015, 9:49 PM
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Havnen't snapped any pics yet, but there's a fence up around 1 Henry Adams. Appears that they are already tearing up what was a former parking lot that. I believe that housing is going in.
     
     
  #6670  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 12:16 AM
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One Henry Adams

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm View Post
Havnen't snapped any pics yet, but there's a fence up around 1 Henry Adams. Appears that they are already tearing up what was a former parking lot that. I believe that housing is going in.
jbm - here is BAR link for more pictures & info. on the mixed use development. http://www.bararch.com/work/multifamily-mixed-use/project/1-henry-adams

I like it very much! It will encompass the whole block!

1 Henry Adams Street
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  #6671  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 7:29 PM
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various things from a walk yesterday...

the little infill across from the Whole Foods at Dolores and Market. I like how these turned out



at the former UC Extension site, this is looking west from Laguna up what would be Waller passing through the massive block, if it were a street



a couple blocks over in Hayes Valley, parcel P (former Hayes Valley Farm) is beginning to wrap up. looking south on Octavia:



north (from Oak):



and looking west along the north edge of the parcel - what will become Hickory St, or Alley. off to the right in the distance is parcel O, which will be affordable housing someday.



just a reminder that parcels F, H and J are also under construction in Hayes Valley. this map is sideways, but from this good article that ties things together



jumping back to SOMA, future Dropbox on Brannan is getting its cladding:


Last edited by timbad; Jan 11, 2015 at 7:55 PM.
     
     
  #6672  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:22 PM
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^^^Beat me to it. Took pics last week and haven't had time to post yet. Will "duplicate" to some degree your pictures and post mine later tonight. Thanks for these!
     
     
  #6673  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 12:43 AM
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Franklin Street Updates

1634 Pine (@ Franklin) condo demolition/construction site

[IMG]Pine at Franklin condo construction by viewguysf, on Flickr[/IMG]

Former Christian Science Church parking lot in foreground

[IMG]Former parking lot at Pine & Franklin by viewguysf, on Flickr[/IMG]

Two facades being retained on Pine Street (a third smaller one will apparently be reconstructed for the new garage entrance)

[IMG]Facades being retained for 1634-1694 condo towers by viewguysf, on Flickr[/IMG]

In context, with 1450 Franklin (@ Bush) condo tower under construction to the right behind San Francisco Towers

[IMG]In Context by viewguysf, on Flickr[/IMG]

1450 Franklin @ Bush - it looks a little more substantial in the core now and has been topped off (with small tree and flag on the front right)

[IMG]1450 Franklin @ Bush condo construction by viewguysf, on Flickr[/IMG]
     
     
  #6674  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 3:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm View Post
Havnen't snapped any pics yet, but there's a fence up around 1 Henry Adams. Appears that they are already tearing up what was a former parking lot that. I believe that housing is going in.
great scoop! I wandered over there this evening, and demolition is definitely well under way.

here is a similar angle to the one in the rendering that Jerry posted, showing what's left of the old building from the roundabout on the north side:



and moving around the block counter-clockwise:











I'm not completely enthralled by the rendering myself, but...

Showplace Square always seems like a hidden treasure to me - handsome old brick buildings surrounded by industrial blah (and freeways). now the blah is being gradually chipped away (there was also just that blurb about the Hooper Innovation Campus, for example), and I'm looking forward to watching the pleasantness of SS integrate with the surrounding neighborhoods through the bridge of the new construction. of course, this is SF, so it will go in frustrating fits and starts.
     
     
  #6675  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 4:07 AM
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^Anything is better than what was there before--much of that lot was just surface parking.

Showplace Square really is a great area, urbane and unique. The scale is urban but not overwhelming, it has gorgeous brick architecture, and contains one of the few roundabouts in the city. It reminds me of places back east.
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  #6676  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 4:30 AM
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In what I believe is a related project, there is also a piece of heavy equipment in the parking lot of the concourse exhibition center, about a block away from 1 Henry Adams. No work has started that I can tell.
     
     
  #6677  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 7:22 AM
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yeah, i wondered what happened with that one, more info here:
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2013/...s_on_brannan_up_for_approval_this_a.html

i'd hate to lose the lower cost convention space (seriously, what would replace it?) but it has to be said that the proposed project is worthwhile on its merits.
     
     
  #6678  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 7:51 PM
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From 1/7/15

150 Van Ness is progressing in its demolition. It is mostly wrapped:


some of the facade has come down on the Polk-facing side:


across Hayes, 101 Polk is near topping out (it looks like they have one and a half floors left):
     
     
  #6679  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewK View Post
From 1/7/15
across Hayes, 101 Polk is near topping out (it looks like they have one and a half floors left)
Looks like 3 and a half to me. I believe the final floor count for 101 Polk is 13, and from the picture it looks like they are working on the tenth floor.
     
     
  #6680  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 9:38 PM
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yeah, it's 13 stories, though for some reason i also thought it was 11 stories. here's a view of 101 polk from the civic center plaza



also, this is a sort of unbuild structure/ephemera post but here's video for a project i had forgotten all about. was nixed by the voters back in 2003 or 2004 i think:
http://expositionorgan.org/media/video/KRON4News_Pavillion.html

i'd love to see it happen, would be a lot more interesting than that completely unused bocce court and certainly another little attraction for tourists and visitors.
     
     
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